Squad Leader Archive
Thread: The Squad Leader Revamp: Thrawny plays Dev for a day
Therascalking3 wrote:
Ok thats it arguments over. I asked you several times to just read what was being said in the forum and you cant even read what was said in the post i replied to yours. I said that in a game like this you have to make sacrifices. In the real world a Squad Leader would not set up a fort obviously no one man could set up a fort but for purposes of the game it would be the SL profession to get it.
Now you are also looking over the fact that prereqs are supposed to be the basis for a profession. What the hell would master marksman have to do with as squad leader as they can hold any type of weapon and fight with anything. And exactly what would exploration have to do with it. Yes we give the group terrain negotiation but that really has nothing to do with exploring anything. If a squad leader is exploring the territory he is fighting in he obviously has bad intel and doesnt know what the hell is going on.
and you want to talk about a SL not being the guy to deal with fort building. What the hell does a politician have to do with it? just end this whole argument right now
I haveplayed since launch and have wanted to be and was a squad leader until mid May. In May I decided to change my template(since it had been the same for over 8 months) and try something new...commando. Ever since I picked up this game, i wanted to be a squad leader.
I play on the Bria server, I am a full time pvper and lead many pvp events. What I designed above comes from months of leading pvp events. Weather its city pvp, attacking or defending a faction HQ...I put in tools above which would improve my job.
I find no place for "sand-bags" and "trenchs" in SL, and i find no use for it especially in the GCW on Bria. I may be wrong and think that other servers fight a non-mobile war style similar to WW1 where armies sit in trenches and try to pound each other away.
My soldiers are always moving and i would find no use to being the guy placing sandbags.
Id rather have a window containing FAQ info so i dont have to spam it every few seconds.
I want thepaint target command so i dont have to fight an uphill abttle getting my troops to fire in the right direction.
I want group waypoints so my guys can see the rally points on their own screen, rather then me spamming them in group chat.
I want to be able to have a birds eye view of the battlefield so i can get an overall idea of what is going on and be "An overall strategist" at times, similar to a field LT pulling out his laptop on the field that shows updated info on the positions of my enemies and allies.
Sand bags dont even fit into the game mechanics correctly. Think about it. What is the goal of trench or a fox-hole in a battlefield? To protect you from enemy fire, to keep you out of their line of sight. Line of sight however is too powerful to tinker with in this game. The ideas presented here are simply a SL designating a certain area to have increased defense and accuracy mods. My revamp has these built in so that you get these powerful mods even when your not in a designated fortified area
The reason I brought up politician in relation to fortifications is because i have a much more grand vision of faction HQs.
Imagine a politician/city planner being able to build his city similarly to the Imperial Outpost on Talus. Giving mayors a set amount of walls and tower to fortify his city cotnainign a faction base is a more idealistic fortification allowing imperials and rebels more power to excercise their talent in designing a stronghold.
Leave fortifications for the planners/builders
Leave leading the troops to the Squad Leader.
And for what it's worth, I don't care what the base prerequisites for this profession are, but I do expect them to be placed on the table and subject to polite and reasoned debate just as theyare and have been for the eventual Smuggler revamp.
Therascalking3 wrote:
honestly i try not to be negative but this tree map out needs so much work it should just be scrapped totally.
By the way the fact that you picked a FOTM profession kind of makes this community hostile towards you.
Panzer is right there are much more well developed and balanced ideas elsewhere on the forums. And also i think you should read up on the most developed version of the forts idea because it seems you have little to no understanding of what the idea consists of.
Its Squad Leader, not "Ft Builder"
Strudle wrote:
Master Marksman: At this stage, you, a soldier have gaiend enoguh experience in weapons to be able to lead other into combat.
Master Marksman+Exploration 4= Novice Squad Leader.
Therascalking3 wrote:
Sushi i think you can see why im pissed.
I meant not to discount any of the hard work you guys have put into the existing revamp docs (such as they are). I just think it's silly to marry ourselves to a vision that has not had one word of validation or supporting feedback from the devs. They have been silentregarding what they actually have in mind for us, save for the "no extra pets" thing - so getting too excited about any proposals currently on the table seems premature. And consistently invalidating other players and shooting down their conflicting or complementary ideas just seems counterproductive to our end goal - maximizing the force multiplier of the Squad Leader.
Therascalking3 wrote:
i know i sound harsh with this whole thing but honestly this forum has been full of people making ridiculously unresearched or refined suggestion about things already discussed in depth. Truthfully strudle just came running in here with not a single original idea and a skill tree not much better than the original squad leader tree. His trees a lacking in benefits and stuffed with currently do-able things. Such as group waypoints (already been discussed and currently something that can be done if you know how to lead) painting a target (ditto). Basically i am offended that this guy will come into the SL forum without reading any of the ideas the community has worked on and just come in here and trash everything we have been refining for a worthless profession revamp.
I am also a carbineer and if you check out that forum it is highly mature (although recently a bunch of people have been flooding it with FOTM posts because of the new carbines coming out) but the first thing i did when i went into the carbineer forum was read every sticky. Then i read every popular or constructive thread and slowly started to respond once i had felt i had a tap on the views people were trying to go with.
One of the sticky posts on this forum i started after reading almost every sensible thread in this forum. It was a map for skills trees and the rest of the community respond with there ideas and the map out was heavily refined. It was even more refined as it went on. So basically what i did was break down all the ideas and refine them as i saw it to be equal for balance in the game. Then the community went in and told me where it could be better and more even. That thread as well as other threads such as Thuliums discussion thread and some of the other stickys are threads containing ideas that the whole community has been working on for a long long time. Meanwhile Strudle runs in here out of nowhere, tells us we are wrong and we dont know what squad leaders really use, and goes on to above all things make a revamp that is at best arguably better than our current situation.
Sushi i think you can see why im pissed.
did i ever claim all of my ideas are original, i have read these forums often since last fall, my vision contains these ideas and some ideas i came up with myself.
If someone posting their ideas on the forum offends you, then you have a major problem. I always prefer to gather ideas from myself and otehrs and compilethem in my own fashion, yet you find that offensive because i did not just add my ideas to the current idea.
I am presenting a new idea for ppl to see and think about, these are ideas which i have come to feel would be outstanding in the current system after i have been active in leading pvp and pve events for nearly a year now. I did not come here for flame war, id stay in the Bria forums and read half the posts there. I thoguht i would get mature and good responses in this forum.
Constructive criticism, not just a flame for not doing things the way a single individual wanted it to be.
Therascalking3 wrote:
i understand what you are saying but if you look at all of those docs. Strudle's map is far behind what has been discussed. I simply get mad when people go ahead and posting something that has been discussed and refined again and again.
How many people need to be kicked in the forehead (some metaphorically some physically) for still posting about npc squad leaders when the devs actually already nerfed that idea.
read my trees carefully...do you anything that has to do with making SL's NPC handlers?
I will come out clearly here, i am violently oppossed to the NPC SL idea, which i am glad has been turned down by the devs. I am also oppossed to the Fort builder SL, id rather devote all my skill points to being the platoon leader, not the fort builder/platoon commander.
first of all you obviously didnt understand what i was saying. I was addressing Darth Sushi no you which is why i said i understand what you are saying and later referred to you in third person. Secondly the other statement was an example of people posting things that have already been discussed and changed and fixed. Third i wouldnt go so far as to say you didnt suggest that because in you other thread it was a topic you offer as a direction for SL to take. read more carefully next time
Strudle wrote:
Therascalking3 wrote:
i understand what you are saying but if you look at all of those docs. Strudle's map is far behind what has been discussed. I simply get mad when people go ahead and posting something that has been discussed and refined again and again.
How many people need to be kicked in the forehead (some metaphorically some physically) for still posting about npc squad leaders when the devs actually already nerfed that idea.
read my trees carefully...do you anything that has to do with making SL's NPC handlers?
I will come out clearly here, i am violently oppossed to the NPC SL idea, which i am glad has been turned down by the devs. I am also oppossed to the Fort builder SL, id rather devote all my skill points to being the platoon leader, not the fort builder/platoon commander.
if you take a look at what has been discussed you will see why i have so much of a problem with your map. We have moved past the things you suggested. They were corrected because better ideas were found. Newer version have come into play and the ideas have evolved way past your barely different than the current SL proposal. This is like someone coming into my office and asking to switch our network from Windows 2000 to NT 4.0 i would just laugh at them.
Strudle wrote:
did i ever claim all of my ideas are original, i have read these forums often since last fall, my vision contains these ideas and some ideas i came up with myself.
If someone posting their ideas on the forum offends you, then you have a major problem. I always prefer to gather ideas from myself and otehrs and compilethem in my own fashion, yet you find that offensive because i did not just add my ideas to the current idea.
I am presenting a new idea for ppl to see and think about, these are ideas which i have come to feel would be outstanding in the current system after i have been active in leading pvp and pve events for nearly a year now. I did not come here for flame war, id stay in the Bria forums and read half the posts there. I thoguht i would get mature and good responses in this forum.
Constructive criticism, not just a flame for not doing things the way a single individual wanted it to be.
Therascalking3 wrote:
if you take a look at what has been discussed you will see why i have so much of a problem with your map. We have moved past the things you suggested. They were corrected because better ideas were found. Newer version have come into play and the ideas have evolved way past your barely different than the current SL proposal. This is like someone coming into my office and asking to switch our network from Windows 2000 to NT 4.0 i would just laugh at them.
Strudle wrote:
did i ever claim all of my ideas are original, i have read these forums often since last fall, my vision contains these ideas and some ideas i came up with myself.
If someone posting their ideas on the forum offends you, then you have a major problem. I always prefer to gather ideas from myself and otehrs and compilethem in my own fashion, yet you find that offensive because i did not just add my ideas to the current idea.
I am presenting a new idea for ppl to see and think about, these are ideas which i have come to feel would be outstanding in the current system after i have been active in leading pvp and pve events for nearly a year now. I did not come here for flame war, id stay in the Bria forums and read half the posts there. I thoguht i would get mature and good responses in this forum.
Constructive criticism, not just a flame for not doing things the way a single individual wanted it to be.
First of all i was vague on numbers because there wasnt any community decision on what kind of numbers would be fair or unfair for different bonuses we just new we needed more so that was meant to come out in the rest of the thread which is somewhat did but not really. Second the trees i compiled from all the other threads were stuffed full of useful tools and skills especially later in that thread when the community started digging into it. Maliek had a lot of good stuff too. Also if you cant control your group under the current system thats not reason to waste skillboxes and branches on a system of new colors for things. Honestly i lead guild groups half the time and i use teamspeak so the only in game stuff ends up being SL command spam. If the group happens to be outsiders i have no problem keeping them inline using groupchat sysgroup and spatial. If random people i pick up to hunt with arent acting in line i kick them and they end up dying out in the field. That way they learn a valuable lesson. (not to group with me...jk:smileywink
Strudle wrote:
What makes your better then mine? All you really offer are forts, more stacked defenses and essentially shuttle drops.
Shuttle drops are cool, but I would bet 1 million credits we would not get them, too many complications involved. Anmd fortresses have no purpose right now is SWG, only faction bases to a degree.
Your thread also is very vague about the defense and attack mods given to the group. Mine are powerful yet balanced.
I gave tools that give the squad leader better control of his group and bonuses to improve performance.
