Squad Leader Archive
Thread: MSL’s Unite !!! (initial thoughts from the TC)
First off I want to say after spending some time on the TC with my MSL there, our profession is shaping up to be excellent.
The squad leader tree is filled with excellent changes, however there is still no definable reason to master squad leader with publish 24. As a MSL for over a year I would encourage all current MSL’s to spend time on the TC. We should work together and petition for any changes quickly before publish 24 goes live as changes are harder/slower to make then.
There is still no clear reason to master Squad Leader. Currently the only master level skill will seldom be used if there is healer in the group. “Dabblers” will continue to dominate the Squad Leader profession. I would like to suggest that the master box for SL allows masters to activate 2 group buffs. The group buffs are excellent and allowing Master Squad leaders to activate 2 at a time would encourage players to master the profession instead of just dabbling. Also making a valuable reward for players who do take the time to master these noble skills.
I would love to hear other ideas from our community MSL’s on what should be done to encourage the mastery of the Squad Leader tree. Keep these within reason and on topic please, as SOE will likely only consider organized reasonable requests.
Intimidator Pistol, need I say more 
Well, okay not enough reason to make everyone an MSL but enough for me.
check these out:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b36/fordep/?action=view¤t=screenShot0075.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b36/fordep/?action=view¤t=screenShot0076.jpg
Fordep wrote:
Intimidator Pistol, need I say more
Well, okay not enough reason to make everyone an MSL but enough for me.
check these out:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b36/fordep/?action=view¤t=screenShot0075.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b36/fordep/?action=view¤t=screenShot0076.jpg
I got a 358 base DPS 95 SAC one for like 250k lol.
It is possible to hit CL 80 without a double mastery unless something has very recently changed.
Imaridril wrote:
Keep in mind that you have to master two combat profs now to get level 80.
Imaridril wrote:
Keep in mind that you have to master two combat profs now to get level 80. That alone has been the biggest deterent to dabbling. Obviously its nice when the master box in any prof is worth getting, but the bonuses there don't have to be amazing anymore. In the post-CU world, pretty much everyone picks two proffessions to master and then they dabble into a third. A certain percentage of squad leaders are thus going to be dabblers, just like for every other prof, however I don't think we have to worry about tons of three or four line dabblers who then choose not to get the master box. Anyone who goes that far into the proffesion will want to get master in order to get to level 80. In fact, based on my math, it will be impossible to get more than two lines of SL and still be able to hit level 80, unless you go all the way in SL.
KJFett3 wrote:
Imaridril wrote:
Keep in mind that you have to master two combat profs now to get level 80. That alone has been the biggest deterent to dabbling. Obviously its nice when the master box in any prof is worth getting, but the bonuses there don't have to be amazing anymore. In the post-CU world, pretty much everyone picks two proffessions to master and then they dabble into a third. A certain percentage of squad leaders are thus going to be dabblers, just like for every other prof, however I don't think we have to worry about tons of three or four line dabblers who then choose not to get the master box. Anyone who goes that far into the proffesion will want to get master in order to get to level 80. In fact, based on my math, it will be impossible to get more than two lines of SL and still be able to hit level 80, unless you go all the way in SL.
MBH/MCarb/SL0404
Look and see just how much of the usefulness they get as they dabble compared to us MSLs. We are talking about 90% effectiveness with 2 lines. I imagine it will change some with the revamp, but as it is looking right now for the revamp....a couple dabblers will be far better than a Master.
You like to jump ahead and not actaully read what we type don't you.
Imaridril wrote:
KJFett3 wrote:
Imaridril wrote:
Keep in mind that you have to master two combat profs now to get level 80. That alone has been the biggest deterent to dabbling. Obviously its nice when the master box in any prof is worth getting, but the bonuses there don't have to be amazing anymore. In the post-CU world, pretty much everyone picks two proffessions to master and then they dabble into a third. A certain percentage of squad leaders are thus going to be dabblers, just like for every other prof, however I don't think we have to worry about tons of three or four line dabblers who then choose not to get the master box. Anyone who goes that far into the proffesion will want to get master in order to get to level 80. In fact, based on my math, it will be impossible to get more than two lines of SL and still be able to hit level 80, unless you go all the way in SL.
MBH/MCarb/SL0404
Look and see just how much of the usefulness they get as they dabble compared to us MSLs. We are talking about 90% effectiveness with 2 lines. I imagine it will change some with the revamp, but as it is looking right now for the revamp....a couple dabblers will be far better than a Master.
A dabbler who only gets SL 0404 will be missing out on the following...
Charge
Rally Point
Second Chance
Form Up
Retreat
Paint Target
Verbal Assualt
Combat Feint
Boost Morale
+50 Group Burst Run Efficiency
+70 Called Shot
+20 General Ranged Accuracy
+15 General Ranged Speed
+35 Melee Defense
+30 Ranged Defense
I'd say that that amounts to significantly more than just 10% of a squad leader's effectiveness. Now, granted, some line are going to be better to have than others, but from the looks of things, I don't see any situation where a player will be able to pick up only two lines and be just as good of SL as someone who goes to master. And I definately can't think of any dabbler combos that will be more effective as an SL than a full fledged master SL.
The template was in regards to now, as in PRE-revamp. And yes, 2 SLs, with MBH/MCarb and SL one with 4400 and another with 0044 will be more effective than a MBH/MCarb and a MSL/Carb. THey would have every useful skill and both have 2 elite professions.
KJFett3 wrote:
Imaridril wrote:
KJFett3 wrote:
Imaridril wrote:
Keep in mind that you have to master two combat profs now to get level 80. That alone has been the biggest deterent to dabbling. Obviously its nice when the master box in any prof is worth getting, but the bonuses there don't have to be amazing anymore. In the post-CU world, pretty much everyone picks two proffessions to master and then they dabble into a third. A certain percentage of squad leaders are thus going to be dabblers, just like for every other prof, however I don't think we have to worry about tons of three or four line dabblers who then choose not to get the master box. Anyone who goes that far into the proffesion will want to get master in order to get to level 80. In fact, based on my math, it will be impossible to get more than two lines of SL and still be able to hit level 80, unless you go all the way in SL.
MBH/MCarb/SL0404
Look and see just how much of the usefulness they get as they dabble compared to us MSLs. We are talking about 90% effectiveness with 2 lines. I imagine it will change some with the revamp, but as it is looking right now for the revamp....a couple dabblers will be far better than a Master.
A dabbler who only gets SL 0404 will be missing out on the following...
Charge
Rally Point
Second Chance
Form Up
Retreat
Paint Target
Verbal Assualt
Combat Feint
Boost Morale
+50 Group Burst Run Efficiency
+70 Called Shot
+20 General Ranged Accuracy
+15 General Ranged Speed
+35 Melee Defense
+30 Ranged Defense
I'd say that that amounts to significantly more than just 10% of a squad leader's effectiveness. Now, granted, some line are going to be better to have than others, but from the looks of things, I don't see any situation where a player will be able to pick up only two lines and be just as good of SL as someone who goes to master. And I definately can't think of any dabbler combos that will be more effective as an SL than a full fledged master SL.
You like to jump ahead and not actaully read what we type don't you.
Why did you bring up a pre-revamp template? The original post in this thread was talking about the threat of dabblers in the post-revamp discussion. I'm quite certain that when skrim said "currently" in his original post he was referring to the revamp that is currently on TC. I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, but I assumed you were talking about post-revamp templates because that's all we'd been talking about up to that point.
And yes, 2 SLs, with MBH/MCarb and SL one with 4400 and another with 0044 will be more effective than a MBH/MCarb and a MSL/Carb. THey would have every useful skill and both have 2 elite professions.
I'd disagree with that on several points. One, its going to take a greater level of coordination for two players each with only half of the SL template to utilize the full potential of SL. Two, they're not going to have access to the master box, which has some decent skill mods in it, not to mention a skill that's fairly usefull if you don't have any healers. And three, the first two templates you listed aren't a fair comparison to the second two, because the second two would still each have 52 skill points left to work with, whereas the first two templates you listed only have 4 skill points left each. A better comparison might be...
MBH/MCarbs/SL4400 and MBH/MCarbs/SL0044 vs. MBH/Mcarbs/CM4000 and MSL/MCarbs/Pistoleer0044
Such a matchup is more fair, and I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that the first is difinatively better.
Imaridril wrote:
KJFett3 wrote:
Imaridril wrote:
KJFett3 wrote:
Imaridril wrote:
Keep in mind that you have to master two combat profs now to get level 80. That alone has been the biggest deterent to dabbling. Obviously its nice when the master box in any prof is worth getting, but the bonuses there don't have to be amazing anymore. In the post-CU world, pretty much everyone picks two proffessions to master and then they dabble into a third. A certain percentage of squad leaders are thus going to be dabblers, just like for every other prof, however I don't think we have to worry about tons of three or four line dabblers who then choose not to get the master box. Anyone who goes that far into the proffesion will want to get master in order to get to level 80. In fact, based on my math, it will be impossible to get more than two lines of SL and still be able to hit level 80, unless you go all the way in SL.
MBH/MCarb/SL0404
Look and see just how much of the usefulness they get as they dabble compared to us MSLs. We are talking about 90% effectiveness with 2 lines. I imagine it will change some with the revamp, but as it is looking right now for the revamp....a couple dabblers will be far better than a Master.
A dabbler who only gets SL 0404 will be missing out on the following...
Charge
Rally Point
Second Chance
Form Up
Retreat
Paint Target
Verbal Assualt
Combat Feint
Boost Morale
+50 Group Burst Run Efficiency
+70 Called Shot
+20 General Ranged Accuracy
+15 General Ranged Speed
+35 Melee Defense
+30 Ranged Defense
I'd say that that amounts to significantly more than just 10% of a squad leader's effectiveness. Now, granted, some line are going to be better to have than others, but from the looks of things, I don't see any situation where a player will be able to pick up only two lines and be just as good of SL as someone who goes to master. And I definately can't think of any dabbler combos that will be more effective as an SL than a full fledged master SL.
You like to jump ahead and not actaully read what we type don't you.
Why did you bring up a pre-revamp template? The original post in this thread was talking about the threat of dabblers in the post-revamp discussion. I'm quite certain that when skrim said "currently" in his original post he was referring to the revamp that is currently on TC. I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, but I assumed you were talking about post-revamp templates because that's all we'd been talking about up to that point.
I made it very clear in my post what I was refering to.
And yes, 2 SLs, with MBH/MCarb and SL one with 4400 and another with 0044 will be more effective than a MBH/MCarb and a MSL/Carb. THey would have every useful skill and both have 2 elite professions.
I'd disagree with that on several points. One, its going to take a greater level of coordination for two players each with only half of the SL template to utilize the full potential of SL. Two, they're not going to have access to the master box, which has some decent skill mods in it, not to mention a skill that's fairly usefull if you don't have any healers. And three, the first two templates you listed aren't a fair comparison to the second two, because the second two would still each have 52 skill points left to work with, whereas the first two templates you listed only have 4 skill points left each. A better comparison might be...
MBH/MCarbs/SL4400 and MBH/MCarbs/SL0044 vs. MBH/Mcarbs/CM4000 and MSL/MCarbs/Pistoleer0044
Such a matchup is more fair, and I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that the first is difinatively better.
There is nothign useful in the MSL box. They dont need it and those 2 will find it more usefull to have other combat temps. Fact is, multiple dabbler SLs are better. Why? Because 2 elite combat professions with some SL will always be better tha one elite combat profession combine with SL. Heck, itn the 2 groups I gave, the MSL group would only have 1 buff while teh 2 dabblers would have 2. Even there they are better.
I might be mistaken, but from what I've read in other postings, in the new system, if you have more than one SL in the same group, you can still only have one group buff running at one time.
Imaridril wrote:
KJFett3 wrote:
And yes, 2 SLs, with MBH/MCarb and SL one with 4400 and another with 0044 will be more effective than a MBH/MCarb and a MSL/Carb. THey would have every useful skill and both have 2 elite professions.
I'd disagree with that on several points. One, its going to take a greater level of coordination for two players each with only half of the SL template to utilize the full potential of SL. Two, they're not going to have access to the master box, which has some decent skill mods in it, not to mention a skill that's fairly usefull if you don't have any healers. And three, the first two templates you listed aren't a fair comparison to the second two, because the second two would still each have 52 skill points left to work with, whereas the first two templates you listed only have 4 skill points left each. A better comparison might be...
MBH/MCarbs/SL4400 and MBH/MCarbs/SL0044 vs. MBH/Mcarbs/CM4000 and MSL/MCarbs/Pistoleer0044
Such a matchup is more fair, and I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that the first is difinatively better.
There is nothign useful in the MSL box. They dont need it and those 2 will find it more usefull to have other combat temps. Fact is, multiple dabbler SLs are better. Why? Because 2 elite combat professions with some SL will always be better tha one elite combat profession combine with SL. Heck, itn the 2 groups I gave, the MSL group would only have 1 buff while teh 2 dabblers would have 2. Even there they are better.
I might be mistaken, but from what I've read in other postings, in the new system, if you have more than one SL in the same group, you can still only have one group buff running at one time. Also, why do you insist on saying the MSL box is useless? Second Chance sounds like it could be a pretty usefull skill, not to mention that the master box alone has most melee defense, ranged defense, general ranged accuracy, and general ranged speed than an entire line in BH.
Also, I think that with the new revamp, SL is being turned into an elite proffession. I did the math, and here's the skillmods that MSL gives vs. MBH...
MSL: +80 Accuracy, +40 Speed, +100 Melee Defense, +110 Ranged Defense
MBH: +85 Accuracy, +40 Speed, +95 Melee Defense, +120 Ranged Defense
As you can see, they're both pretty comprable, and MSL will stack pretty well with any other ranged proffession, such as say MRifles. Ifan MSL/MRifles has someone else in his group who can handle healing, then he can use his left over 52 skill points to dabble into another ranged proffession in order to get two high damage attacks to alternate with, and at that point in a group context he'll be just about as lethal as any other duel elite template.