Squad Leader Archive

While we appear to have the Dev's attention, let's discuss this... Although I agree that fortifications would be excellent, my vision for Squad Leader is a profession (not just the player) that is capable of turning any group into a formidable fighting force so I personally feel that the /aimfor command could be THE ability to really make Squad Leader what it ought to be.

For those who haven't read this idea, I originally posted it in the following thread.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=squad_leader&message.id=7174

Basically, in a manner similar to how Anakin Skywalker pointed out the Geonosian weakness in Episode II, and Mon Mothma directed the fighters to target the exhaust vent to destroy the Death Star, and Ackbar led the battle into Death Star II... Squad Leaders should be given the ability to point out the weakspot in a given enemy and target it for attack. I imagine the basic functionality of this skill would be earned in the Leadership tree (first the ability to target Health, then Action, and lastly Mind by Leadership IV or Master Squad Leader). The Tactics line would provide modifiers to this ability reducing the cost and/or increasing the duration of this command. A Master Squad Leader could issue a command like /SquadAimMind that would cause all the group's attacks (non-special, at least) for the next 30 seconds or so to drain the mind pool specifically.

Again, I personally believe that this sort of command could make SL as uber as it deserves to be. I can also imagine other group special attacks like this coming through the tactics line. For example, perhaps a Squad Leader to use tactical maneuvers that would apply (or heal?) AoEDoTs or state changes (like Dizzy, Blind, or even Knockdown)

P.S. Thunderheart, before you think that this is asking for too much keep a few things in mind: 1. Squad Leader is the 3rd most expensive profession in the game. 2. Squad Leader abilities are only functional when the Squad Leader is made the leader of a group, which brings an inherent balance (aka"nerf")to our profession. 3. Squad Leader requires as much combat skill as any elite weapons profession, but currently has NO combat specials.

My issue with making the passive buffs do something noticeable is twofold. First, it's hard to notice ANY passive buff. When I was climbing the Scout tree for Squad Leader I didn't notice the terrain negotiation effects for quite some time before realizing that I was outrunning my groupmates. Since you can only be in one group at a time, it's tough to notice a passive difference between a group led by an SL and one that isn't. I'm not saying that the passives don't need to be improved, I'm just saying that even if/when they are...it'll still be kinda tough to see the difference. Second, IMHO, passive buffs should be a SIDE effect of good leadership, not the primary function. We don't put platoon leaders in combat so the platoon can run faster, we put them in to make them effective in combat and the inherent discipline that results in increased mobility is just a happy coincidence.

Also, high HAM costs and fail rates would be quite alright if they were associated with a skill that was worth using. Look at commando, they have very high fail/miss rates, but that doesn't stop them from spamming their /flamecone specials until they do work because they are SO effective! The HAM cost for KD moves is pretty high, but they are still used because once they work, they work very very well.

It's similar to the other thread I recently started here regarding dropping the Scout requirements for Squad Leader. If we aren't going to make improvements to the profession as it stands, at least make it cheaper so it isn't a complete rip-off. But personally, I'd rather see actual and substantial improvements and additions. ...Just my 2 credits.

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DarthLithic wrote:
Fix the HAM costs, Make the Passives noticable. Reduce Fail Rates.

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I like the /aimfor idea... but there's one fundamental problem with it... it takes away other classes' individuality.

What I mean is... players in your group won't have to use their special attacks anymore, simply /attack and sit back and wait. If I tell folks to aim for the legs (action), all of the riflemen will feel they are no longer unique since their mind specs will be negated.

Not sure if I'm getting my point across... yes this would be a VERY efficient skill, but it takes other classes' identities away from them, and that's not a good thing. We should be able to lead a diverse group of people and have them use their unique abilities to full effect, otherwise, they might as well ALL be one class.

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Flookmastah wrote:

I like the /aimfor idea... but there's one fundamental problem with it... it takes away other classes' individuality.

What I mean is... players in your group won't have to use their special attacks anymore, simply /attack and sit back and wait. If I tell folks to aim for the legs (action), all of the riflemen will feel they are no longer unique since their mind specs will be negated.

Not sure if I'm getting my point across... yes this would be a VERY efficient skill, but it takes other classes' identities away from them, and that's not a good thing. We should be able to lead a diverse group of people and have them use their unique abilities to full effect, otherwise, they might as well ALL be one class.

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i can add to that

for action if your a carbieener then you and ONLY the carb's can use their specials for the duration of the attack
this fixes that issue

oh and to answer the question at the heart of the post: the one attribute I'd LOVE to see added to SL is HAM cost reduction for folks in our group.

here's a post we made about it:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=squad_leader&message.id=3994&page=1

basically the consensus was that 5% at novice +5%, 5%, 5%, 5% up the 4 tiers of one of our trees (or perhaps in tier 4 of all four to discourage dabbling), and 5% at master for a grand total of 30% group HAM efficiency at master SL.

Well any weapon can do damage to any HAM bar. You see it over the mobs head: +hit in the arm+ or something like that. I see this skill being much like a volly fire but specialized with an effect.

So if you do a /aimforleg command then everyone does a vollyfire but every hit is in the leg making the mob lose action but also causes them to drop a posture. /aimforhead would damage the mind pool and make the mob blind and/or stunned. etc.

This would be a pretty good skill but would have to work with the same damage levels that /vollyfire has now to keep it from being overpowered. (Which is low damage. the /volleyfire skill itself needs to increase damage done.)

I think the ability to set everybody in the squad to target a certain pool would be entirely overpowered, especially if it persisted a while, orif they could use normally random HAM attacks (or attacks meant to target a different pool) on it.

Now, if it was the ability to target one single volley at a particular pool, using regular auto-attacks, that could still be really useful.

Exactly.

I have trouble believing it's possible for a Squad Leader special to be "overpowered." The most common test for "overpower" is if it allows a person to 'solo' above their level but a Squad Leaders abilities can't solo a chuba. All Squad Leader abilities are automatically put in balance by the fact that you have to be leading a group to use them in the first place and your group can only have one Squad Leader. Why should ANY special ability that isn't auto-balanced like a Squad Leader's be more powerful?? Currently, the closest thing we have to a combat ability is /volleyfire and this does LESS damage than if the group just used their own specials. It also has a greater HAM cost than any other special.

Debating whether or not the /aimfor command should work for a single volley like /volleyfire or a duration like /rally is legitimate however. It's a good point that it could potentially detract from a squad's "uniqueness", but if the SL abilities only modifiednon-specials, the group could certainly flex their uniqueness by choosing touse an individual special instead ofor in addition to the leader's command. However, I would still encourage a short-term duration effect so that it could potentially be stacked with other SL specials. For example, a conceivably great combo would be to start with a /rally then /aimforlegs and /steadyaim...then toss in a <insert new squad tactical special maneuver> to make a posture change/status change/AoE modifier.