Squad Leader Archive

Stop complaining about skills we dont have yet... Why? Because we WONT get them if you dont shuttup! See how it goes first please.... Then we adjust how it works, dont be so **edit** pesimistic... If the skill doesn't work for you, dont use it, but the Devs Ideas make some sense, those that dont work for me I wont use...

Simple as that guys, common, be happy we're getting some love and wait it out, see what its like.

I would rather they fix what we have before giving us anything new.

Thanks Blue.

If you all keep complaining, we won't get any skills. Once we get them, you all can resume whining and change what you don't like about them.

And honestly, what is broken about SL, other than kicking a member? (oh no, we have one thing wrong with our profession, the DEVs hate us!)

How can I even respond? I don't use the skills I have now because they suck. I should not use the skills you want them to give us because they will also suck?

I should be nice and quiet and sit in the corner til they give me candy because I'm a good little boy and everyone knows devs love good little boys? Not how the world works.

You cannot complain about skills you have not used, simple as that. We dunno how well these will effect the game, everything I have heard has been pulled out of the proverbial butt...

Wait and See what it does for us, and then whine and complain if it doesn't work... DONT MESS UP OUR CHANCE TO BE EFFECTIVE!!!

This isn't our chance to be effective, its an opportunity for people to hate us.

I don't have to play test something to know that it will alienate other players in my group or make me undesirable in my professional role within a group or even wanted in a group at all.

Lastly, if they have given us fairly uncomplicated skills that don't work to begin with, I certainly don't want to be given a vast array of more complex skills in exchange. That doesn't even approach beinglogical.

Like I asked, what skills are broken?

I admit that I'm not very far up the tree, but everything looks good so far. /disband [name] is broken, but that isn't a class skill.

As far as skills that don't work, Volley FIre. I got this skill yesterday and I can't seem to get it to work. I have held out on complaining, but I tried it with some friends and A) the didn't target my target and B) they didnt' just open fire on my target. Has anyone seen this skill work? Can someone give me a heads up about it?

Azre'el Blain

Sorry if this comes off as rude but, once again for the newbs.

I am a Master. I've got all the boxes.

Range defense and melee defense do not work, its been turned off since Beta.

Rally gives you +10 to hit for a short time. It fails around 50% of the time and takes 150 mind each time you use it. While it is up group memebers cannot harvest, sit or do anything they can't do in a combat stance.

Formup removes stun and dizzy. Stun has little effect. Dizzy is important but you can't use formup while dizzy. Worse though is that pets, who tank for you at high levels, are unaffected by this ability.

Steadyaim gives an unknown bonus to hit for one shot. You gain xp by firing. You just wasted xp.

Volleyfire does not work.

Boostmorale divides wounds (not damage, wounds) on the primary stats amongst the party. Yay, I can move my 20 H wounds to you and my five friends, so we all have 3 or so. Or I could have let the doc, who can heal hundreds of wounds at a time, heal just me. Hello? USELESS!

The only truly working abilities are the +60 you get to terrain negotiation (which most group members have Explore III anyway..) the +60 to burst run (no one burst runs in this game, they all save it for emergencies...but no one runs from combat) and /sysmessage (which is about as good as an all caps /group or spatial speech.)

There you have it. Our abilities boil down to +60 terrain negotiation and sysmessage. That's what you are buying I'm afraid to say. I've been master for a few weeks now and used boostmorale for the first time in three weeks yesterday, as a joke while no one had wounds. We have no master level ability that sets us apart from a novice. We have no real ability to speak of at all! None of the proposed abilities have any master level ability. They have no really high level ability. In fact, aside from the terrain move bonus and the stances, they will make us widely hated. how do we know? We've polled our groups, we've polled the boards and about 75% of them do NOT want us to use the abilities. So, you are saying we should be good little boys and be happy with the crap they are handing us and calling candy? NO. You can sit quietly and get more abilities you won't use for skill points that are the biggest commodity in this game. WE WILL NOT!

There are pages and pages of intelligent discussion on this subject. People for and against the new changes. A super majority of this community feels just as I do that the proposed changes will only serve to damage the profession in the eyes of the one thing it needs most: Groups of PCs.

I suggest that you follow your own advice and SHUT UP!

/followme swiftblue

/ceasefire swiftblue

/groupcover dilune

/groupattack SOE

there, you see? now you're on my side until you /disband

I don't have that skill yet, but it is my understanding that it effects only the people that are currently attacking your target.

Some of the proposed skills will increase the usefullness of this skill.

I spent a year and a half following this game actively pre-release and pre-beta. The developers gave us ideas for the game during that time and were active in soliciting the community's response to the ideas and what we wanted. But, we had never played the game. Should that have stopped the feedback? No! In fact, you can provide excellent insight based upon theoretical changes. I mean, that's even how the devs function. Before you actually have the skills they have to think them up and imagine how it will affect the game.

They came out and told us these changes early, and I feel we have a right to anticipate how these changes will affect the game and point out flaws we see with the design. If you disagree with the angered sentiment towards the proposed changes, than say so. But I feel that speaking out when we see a soon-to-be gameplay problem and pre-emptively attempting to prevent future problems is not only something we have the right to do but something we should do.

Buddy, I've been here since day one. I'm talking December 2000, and I have never seen people bitch so mutch about skills that they don't no jack about. The Devs haven't gone into any detail. When the updates hit the TC, and we learn more, then take the opportunity to whine.

I know you've been around ob, in fact I recognized ya. I was just pointing out that theoretical design is just as important as the practical in many ways, as the pre-release, pre-beta times showed.

I think when the devs come to us with the things they say it's our job to give some feedback. And when you have a profession that says "you know, we're not really liking where this is going" and you have people that need to group with that profession saying "if an SL uses these skills I'm going to leave the group" waiting for the actual skills to hit the TC in my mind is not only postponing the "whine" but merely wasting development time and energy that can be spent improving our current skills or going in a direction we're more comfortable with.

The philosophy that you should wait for the things you dislike to be put in-game before you complain is fundamentally flawed. If there'san upcoming problem that you see, you provide feedback on it so that it can be fixed and the time spent to "developing" that problem can be spent on more appropriate avenues of development. Waiting for that issue to hit and then complaining only prolongs the issue.

There is merit to saying "try it out, it could be different than you think." And I agree with you guys there. I just don't feel there's much ambiguity or room for variation in these abilities. I've got a feeling the way they appear on paper is the way they'll appear in-game.