Squad Leader Archive
Thread: NPC-handling; WHY?
PanzerGR wrote:
I would liek to understand WHY peopel would even WANT NPC's to begin with for this profession.
In the interest of fostering more civil discourse on this (and other potentially devisive topics): Don't claim you want to understand a particular viewpoint and then spend the next six paragraphs outlining why you refuse to understand. Just ask. And if and when you get an answer, don't spend another six explaning to the respondent why they areretarded and/or a n00b. Just say, "Thank you."
Darth_Sushi wrote:
PanzerGR wrote:
I would liek to understand WHY peopel would even WANT NPC's to begin with for this profession.
In the interest of fostering more civil discourse on this (and other potentially devisive topics): Don't claim you want to understand a particular viewpoint and then spend the next six paragraphs outlining why you refuse to understand. Just ask. And if and when you get an answer, don't spend another six explaning to the respondent why they areretarded and/or a n00b. Just say, "Thank you."
it is my post and if i FEEL like explaining MY position on it first then I guess I am free to do so. "Thank You" for explaining to me how to make a post. Ill be sure to keep it in mind since I obviously have not been around long enough to understand the concept.
Perhaps I should adjust the title
and ask WHY and then explain that the only reason I PERSONALLY can see is for the reasons I stated above...then ask my question again at the end, then point out it seems somewhat of a contradiction......oh wait, that is exactly what I did.
Yes, I do want to understand why. And i chose to stake my own claims on there so that those who posted "why" would also have to defend their opwn position and actualyl THINK about the subject matter first instead of just throwing otu a lame reason like "because i want it"
im sorry I didnt create a topic you could reply to with a one word answer.
also the question
Why?
can be expressed several different ways perhaps in this case it wa smeant int he context of "why bother"
Why? Well the way I see it is two reasons. The first is that Squad Leader is useless unless other players are there to group with you. I understand you feel that's the whole point of it. But it certainly isnt as easy to swallow when you spend a very large chunk of your available skillpoints on it an then cant find anyone to group with. An right now in the game finding groups is kind of difficult. Being able to have some NPC troops would make your SL skillpoints actually do something when no one else is around. EVERY other profession in the game actually has some kind of usefulness even if no one else is there except SL. Even Entertainers can heal thier own mind an Image designers can make over themselves. So why should SL skillsbe completely useless if he is by himself.
The other reason is because I would like to see NPC troops or Droids in the game of some usefulness. I think no one can deny being able to lead a squad of Battle droids or Stormtroopers would be cool. But how can you do it without overpowering a person? Squad Leader takes skillpoints so it makes sense that the somewhat "useful" NPC troops could be owned by them. An like you said its definately not going to unbalance PvP since players are much stronger in general than pets now. If nothing else it would be great for role playing purposes. I badly want to be able to lead a squad of Stormtroopers around instead of just one. I could try to find players for that but the closest im gonna get is a squad of composite troopers. 
basically I just turned the question into an argument at the outset.
Anyone who wants to counterargue my pointsmust come up with a reason fr NPC handling besides the point of having it so they can SOLO things betetr (which is a contradiction to the profession really) and explain themselves more thoroughly than a simple answer will give.
YOu all may not like how it was posted........but I just stacked the deck. Thats all. It would take a VERY valid, thought out, and uninterpretive/direct opinion to even remotely sway my opinion on the subject. Quite simply I dont think NPC's should have anything to do with a profession designed to help PLAYER groups. And as of yet, no one has bothered to step forward and try to counter argue my points and come up with anything logical on the subject.
I apologize if anyone is truly offended by my post.....but I did stack the deck and essentially "shot them down before they spoke". Not really trying to be a dip to anyone.....but i really wouldlike a logical and thought out answer instead of some of the rather droll responses peopel gave in our revamp thread. In my opinion this makes peopel think about it abit before they speak and they have an uphill battle. *shrug*
Sifer2 wrote:
Why? Well the way I see it is two reasons. The first is that Squad Leader is useless unless other players are there to group with you. I understand you feel that's the whole point of it. But it certainly isnt as easy to swallow when you spend a very large chunk of your available skillpoints on it an then cant find anyone to group with. An right now in the game finding groups is kind of difficult. Being able to have some NPC troops would make your SL skillpoints actually do something when no one else is around. EVERY other profession in the game actually has some kind of usefulness even if no one else is there except SL. Even Entertainers can heal thier own mind an Image designers can make over themselves. So why should SL skillsbe completely useless if he is by himself.
I have enver had a problem finding groups. If anything else I group with guild members and go do something with the guild. It i extremely easy to fin groups for PvP. It MAY be hard to find a group if your, say, hunting gorgs on Tatooine or stuff on Lok....but I find it hard to believe that it is hard to find people on the advanced planets. Some Cities on Naboo, Tatooine, Rori, and Corellia are indeed deserted. That is why you must gravitate towards cities with populations or work with your guild...or with allies.
Giving squad leaders NPC's is not the solution, in my opinion, to giving SL's a group when they can not find one simply because SL's should not be allowed to form a group all by themself.
The other reason is because I would like to see NPC troops or Droids in the game of some usefulness. I think no one can deny being able to lead a squad of Battle droids or Stormtroopers would be cool. But how can you do it without overpowering a person? Squad Leader takes skillpoints so it makes sense that the somewhat "useful" NPC troops could be owned by them. An like you said its definately not going to unbalance PvP since players are much stronger in general than pets now. If nothing else it would be great for role playing purposes. I badly want to be able to lead a squad of Stormtroopers around instead of just one. I could try to find players for that but the closest im gonna get is a squad of composite troopers.
Faction pets are utterly useless in PvP combat. Even for PvE you walk around certain areas your precious pets are going to get smoked by coverts and overts even if your not participating in PvP at the time. This leads to whining and all that good stuff.
I do not know a single person on my server who uses faction pets for combat...and rarely anyone uses them for PvE. They just get killed way too fast.A pair of swordsman can level an ATST in no time...advanced strafe cuts down Stormies liek butter.
Any NPC handling abilities thrown into the profession would, essentially, be a complete waste of points (in my opinion) for 80-90% of the SL's out there. Yes, it might be cool to have ahuge troop of soldiers. Itd be cool for the time you were parading around...but when combat was engaged those pets would disappear faster than fudge brownies at a Convention of Depressed Fudge Lovers
Sifer2 wrote:
Ok then if they are so weak an useless as you claim they are. We would'nt be able to use them to solo then would we? If anything they would just be more helpful to the group. Get maybe a Super Battle Droid(Much weaker version)with low attack power but heavy armor to help provide a distraction for the enemyan make it easier for the players in your group to do thier jobs. Right now Pets have no role but after the Combat Revamp when armor is nerfed an HAM is changed so that specials cant be spammed I think the demand for a little extra backup might increase.
What im really trying to understand is why you seem to be so dead set against it. What could it hurt? Nothing was said about reducing Squad Leaders effectiveness in other areas so that this could be added. Its just providing an EXTRA use to the skill boxes. The main difference is that Squad Leader pets should cost money to repair(Droids), or to hire replacements(Mercenaries), or Faction Points(Faction Troopers). Making them an extra addition you might choose on a limited basisinstead of something free like a Creature that is tamed by a CH an is used all the time. The most popular option would probably be the Battle Droids. An im sure Droid Engineers would love something like this to happen for Squad Leaders.
Why are you guys using that rediculous argument?
Why do CHs have to spend skillpoints wehn al they get is useless pets?
Well, because SOE decicdes it is a benefit worth a helluva lot of skillpoints.
What makes you NPC-pro guys think, they would not make it cost a helluva lot of skillpoints for squad leaders?
You think Squad Leader should get the ability to handle pets cheaper than CHs? Whit what argument? That they suckj vs players? Well, so do CH pets!
Did they reduce the skillpoint requirement for CH based on that basic fact? NO!
What makes you think SL is any different in that matter?
The simple idea of "We could get it for free, on top of our other abilities" is so mind nnubbing retarded, i wonder how people like you could ever come up with it.
I would like to see SOE introduce an intelligence minimum for posters on their boards...
Would save us a lot of trouble.
Dogg
P.S.: Don't like my tone? Find it offensive? Good! I am offended by your stupidity as well!
Ok then if they are so weak an useless as you claim they are. We would'nt be able to use them to solo then would we? If anything they would just be more helpful to the group. Get maybe a Super Battle Droid(Much weaker version)with low attack power but heavy armor to help provide a distraction for the enemyan make it easier for the players in your group to do thier jobs. Right now Pets have no role but after the Combat Revamp when armor is nerfed an HAM is changed so that specials cant be spammed I think the demand for a little extra backup might increase.
What im really trying to understand is why you seem to be so dead set against it. What could it hurt? Nothing was said about reducing Squad Leaders effectiveness in other areas so that this could be added. Its just providing an EXTRA use to the skill boxes. The main difference is that Squad Leader pets should cost money to repair(Droids), or to hire replacements(Mercenaries), or Faction Points(Faction Troopers). Making them an extra addition you might choose on a limited basisinstead of something free like a Creature that is tamed by a CH an is used all the time. The most popular option would probably be the Battle Droids. An im sure Droid Engineers would love something like this to happen for Squad Leaders.