Squad Leader Archive
Thread: NPC-handling; WHY?
Telakyte wrote:
It's simple. Squad leader is something that even a neutral can partake of. Therefore the use of it as a faction orientated bonus is out the window. No matter where you stand on this, you must accept the fact that Squad Leader does NOT equal Faction Squad Leader.
Not to invalidate your entire argument, but you do know that Smuggler has an entire skill line (Underworld I-IV) that is keyed more or less directly to GCW faction, right? And one of the two bonuses granted at Master Smuggler is faction-based. And yet for some reason they are not called "Faction Smugglers." They are called "Smugglers," and Smugglers who choose to remain neutral in the GCW reap no benefit from the faction-based aspect(s) of those skills. It is the player's choice to participate in the GCW or not.
Admittedly this is mere speculation, but I imagine that if SOE were to actually implement something like what you are arguing against, it would be an opt-in for Squad Leaders the same way it is opt-in for Smugglers. That is, if you want to maximize the potential of your skill tree you must pick a side in the war. That does not seemvery complicated to me, nor particularly outrageous (considering that the precedent has been established since launch).
I will say this.
If we COULD possibly be able to take out Faction Pets equivelant in Difficulty level as 1 ATST (that way peopel could nto have 3 or 4 ATST's).....base it off difficulty
i might go for it.
but the thing is, as Payne put it...they will not give it to us for "free" on top of everything else. THunderheart and other Devs have stated in the past they use a scaling system for each proff to help balance everything. C skill gets X amount of "points" tacked onto it..... D skill gets Y amount of points, etc
If they did throw in extra NPC's they would count towards this scaling system and would reduce us in other areas.......and I would nto want to see the waste on soemhting that is useless like Faction pets are.
I realize my post is harsh and very slanted toward smy belief.....but im still itnerested in hearing any thought-out arguments on behalf of NPC handling for SL's. Make me understand why, despite the facts and my strong opinions, NPC handling is good and profitable for us.
Change my opinion. Why.
For two, I would actually agree. Having Squad Leader be able to use pets is rediculious. If they were to do that then what use would Creature Handler be?
Well Rifleman can shoot guns so what use is a Pistoleer or Carbineer? Its just something different. I want to lead a squad of faction soldiers around not rancors. Its just hard to do that with the present game mechanics. As for the arguement of Rank. I think they could do other things for that instead.For instance take the Force Ranking system they are working on for Jedi. They could do something similar to that but obviously a bit different for Rebels an Imperials. But with the same basic idea of competing with your fellow soldiers for the High ranking spots. Hell under that system we could allow players to move up beyond Colonel to higher but limited ranks. So maybe only allow 5 General players per factionor something. Then they could getspecial abilities like being able to place new types of Headquarters an Defenses. But that's a whole other discussion.
I see where some people are coming from. They see Squad Leader as a purely social profession that should only serve as a way to enhance a group like a Bard in other fantasy games. I just see it as that an something more it could also become. I dont think the basic purpose of the profession should be droped. I just dont think it "does" enough in its current form an would like to see it fill another role as wellthat does'nt exist in the game yet. If you still disagree then I really dont think I have any other reasons I can say to change your mind about it. Just have to let the Devs decide.(Hopefully they actually read the boards some) LOL
PanzerGR wrote:
I would liek to understand WHY peopel would even WANT NPC's to begin with for this profession.
The reason I ask this is because there is no logical reasoning, from my understanding, as to why this profession would ever benefit from having them.......at least int he sense of what a Squad Leader is.
A squad elader, in it's current AND future forms...will always primarily be a class that is there to buff and support OTHER players. Look at our skills and abilities. They are ALL designed with PLAYER GROUPS and with other actual human interactionaries in mind.
There is nothing in the SL profession that in any way, shape. or form would lead one to believe that this was a profession meant as part of a Solo template.
One would not choose to pick Squad Leader unless, go figure, they intended to actually lead a squad of people around. Theres no personal benefits to the profession, nor is it intended to be that way. It is just as the name implies. The Leader, of a Squad......and the squad must consist of players ebcause thats what all the abilities revolve around, is buffing/supporting other players.
So.....the ONLY reason I could EVER fathom for people wanting large numbers of NPC's to be useable by this profession...is for SOLO PVE USEAGE. Player pets in pvP are useless. If anyone ehre ever PvP's they know that pets, includign ATST's, get taken out in a snap by other players in combat. Therefore the only logical assumption is that these numerous "pets" would be used for the player to form a non-player group of their own so they could go "solo" things by themselves.
Which boggles the mind because is this not in complete and total contradiction to what the whole profession is about in the first place?
All of your arguments are purely subjective though. What it comes down to is peoplespreference of whether they want the revamp to increase our ways of benefitting the group AND enable us to lead npcs, or just focus on getting the most out benefitting the group.
All someone needs to do is stand up and say"I would likeSL be a proffesion that leads npcs aswell as people" and they'd have an equally valid argument as yours because there is no real logical argument that splits the two... logically speaking a squad leader could refer to someone leading a squad of people or a squad of npcs. The only hard fact is the number of people on each side - which is why the polls are important.
Message Edited by JamGod on 05-19-2004 07:40 AM
PanzerGR wrote:
I would liek to understand WHY peopel would even WANT NPC's to begin with for this profession.
The reason I ask this is because there is no logical reasoning, from my understanding, as to why this profession would ever benefit from having them.......at least int he sense of what a Squad Leader is.
A squad elader, in it's current AND future forms...will always primarily be a class that is there to buff and support OTHER players. Look at our skills and abilities. They are ALL designed with PLAYER GROUPS and with other actual human interactionaries in mind.
There is nothing in the SL profession that in any way, shape. or form would lead one to believe that this was a profession meant as part of a Solo template.
One would not choose to pick Squad Leader unless, go figure, they intended to actually lead a squad of people around. Theres no personal benefits to the profession, nor is it intended to be that way. It is just as the name implies. The Leader, of a Squad......and the squad must consist of players ebcause thats what all the abilities revolve around, is buffing/supporting other players.
So.....the ONLY reason I could EVER fathom for people wanting large numbers of NPC's to be useable by this profession...is for SOLO PVE USEAGE. Player pets in pvP are useless. If anyone ehre ever PvP's they know that pets, includign ATST's, get taken out in a snap by other players in combat. Therefore the only logical assumption is that these numerous "pets" would be used for the player to form a non-player group of their own so they could go "solo" things by themselves.
Which boggles the mind because is this not in complete and total contradiction to what the whole profession is about in the first place?
Practically everything you said is exactly WHY they should be included.
As you said, NPCs are useless in PVP, so there should be no concern over making SL too powerful if NPCs are included with all the other skills.
As you also said, no one wouldwant to become an SL if they want NPCs but could only lead a squad of players. Maybe that's why there are practically NO SL's around, because people don't want to spend 135 skill points on a profession that is useless for Solo play. Believe it or not, many people in this game, even people who LOVE group PVP, also like to play Solo from time to time.
And you're right. The profession as it is now IS designed solely with PC command in mind. And that may well be why it is such a failure in the grand scheme of things. That's why it is being REVAMPED.