Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Official: Your Comments on the New Abilities
RazorGaunt wrote:
Holy cow! I am amazed at alot of the SL out there. Such vicious bickering over a class that actually could work really well. To the person who wrote everything in red, and considers himself to be the apex of MMORPG raids - This ain't EQ.
Sure all these new abilities could be abused, but they could also work too. YOu haven't even tried them yet. If you feel they are too much DON'T USE THEM!
Yeah this isn't EQ. Its a far cry from it, lol. In terms of the apex of MMORPG raids, I am hardly that.I have put together teams and ledlarge raidswhich is not a trivial task in EQ.
If you have specific disagreements with my post, just point them out. While I did flame a bit on the post, which maybe was not the best approach, at least I gave specific scenarios to support my positions and did notexpect anyone to take my advice on faith. I think everyonebenefitsif we simply put all of our thoughts on the table, as many of us already have. Well, we benefit if the Dev's actually read these posts.
To me, these posts are notbickering,just people with strong differing opinions on things. As to be exected on a leadership class discussion board! Well thought out, articulated differing positions are a good thing.
In terms of these new abilities, I don't need them to be implemented before I take a position on them. If I think they are terrible skills, then of course I won't use them. I will simple release my SL skill points and put them where they would be of more use to me. Which is exactly what many of us will do, from what I am reading on this thread. This profession might go from a small community to a tiny community soon...
"To me, these posts are notbickering,just people with strong differing opinions on things. As to be exected on a leadership class discussion board! Well thought out, articulated differing positions are a good thing."
I totally agree. Arguementation and debate are the key to decision making, everywhere and everytime.
Belce2 wrote:
Traditionally groups, large raids have an idividual assigned as main assist, you can't go wrong if you are attacking their target. The /cover command will allow us to assign main assist to some or all of our group on the fly. With each individual using a macro to assist one person, if a something that requires a response outside of that the time needed can be relatively long. I think that /cover will allow us to respond with flexibilty to threats more quickly than we could if our group used a single main assist.
What is traditionaly used to do this is the /assist command, which is currently bugged. Using /assist we can do everything that /cover provides with a lot more flexibility at 0 skill costs to me. Plus our group mates will be in control of their toons actions.
/assist >>> /cover. If fact, if they ever fixed the /assist command we would not even being have a debate on most of these new SL commands. They would be immediately percieved as useless.
Shuyunh wrote:
Belce2 wrote:
Traditionally groups, large raids have an idividual assigned as main assist, you can't go wrong if you are attacking their target. The /cover command will allow us to assign main assist to some or all of our group on the fly. With each individual using a macro to assist one person, if a something that requires a response outside of that the time needed can be relatively long. I think that /cover will allow us to respond with flexibilty to threats more quickly than we could if our group used a single main assist.
What is traditionaly used to do this is the /assist command, which is currently bugged. Using /assist we can do everything that /cover provides with a lot more flexibility at 0 skill costs to me. Plus our group mates will be in control of their toons actions.
/assist >>> /cover. If fact, if they ever fixed the /assist command we would not even being have a debate on most of these new SL commands. They would be immediately percieved as useless.
VERY VERY good point Shuyunh
Hypothetical 4 person squad, current commands.
Me: Everyone /assist #2
Group: allpress ctrl 2 (targets person #2) and then type /assist
they all start firing on his target.
/assist works. Or at least it has since the last big patch. I've found that you need to click in space (clear your target) after starting to fire.This will default you to the target you are firing on, letting you do your weapon specials.
First, you need to target the person you want to assist.Then you have to wait for him to open fire. Next action is to type /assist. It makes you open fire of the creature the person you assisted. At this time, your main target is still your friend. If you want to have the informations on the monster you are firing at, just hit "escape".
This is how /assist currently works.
Now I must admit that I would really prefer to make "/assist Dan" and have immediatly Dan's target as my target, without opening fire. Like this, I could very more easily prepare my fights, assigning target to my group's aimers. I'll do "/sys Dan, target %TT, Dan's subgroup assist him and prepare to fire". But this is not the way it's working.
This matter is the reason why I would be able to color-mark targets, so even in the middle of the fight, I can say "primary target is now the brown mark".Thus my groupmate will have the choice of finishing their monster if it's almost done, or warning it and cancel target to brown, without any obligation. They know what they do, I don't need to oblige them to switch target, overall if it's not the good moment for them, but they know what they have to do next.
I understand that some don't like the /assist command, but it's not bugged, we have to be honnest.
1) The list of new skills is not very impressive, and therefore it does not seem very popular
2) Squad Leader should not be able to control PC's like pets. Duh!
3) Squad leader needs 4 different skill types:
a. Communication: Sl needs to share Waypoints, targets, and orders.
b. Boost terrain skills: SL needs to keep the squad together (maybe giving everyone in the group an average speed insead of increaseing everyones speed, I have been in groups where master scouts out run the Medics by a large margin)
c.
Kaazou wrote:
They know what they do, I don't need to oblige them to switch target, overall if it's not the good moment for them, but they know what they have to do next.
Exactly. Some of my group may be able to see things that I cannot. Let's say that a new MOB JUST agroed one of my gunners, and I force him to switch targets. Now instead of being able to use a Warning Shot to scare the current MOB off, his target just CHANGES. Even the best Squad Leader can't see the details for his entire group at every moment. But we can see the overall picture. We know which targets need to be dealt with and in what order, and we need to issue those commands. But our troops need to have some way of working with our commands. There's actually a very complex system set up to do that. It's called a brain and everyone in my Squad has one.
Please don't negate that system in favor of remote control shooting.
DiLune wrote:
/assist works. Or at least it has since the last big patch. I've found that you need to click in space (clear your target) after starting to fire.This will default you to the target you are firing on, letting you do your weapon specials.
Hot tip, thanks! I normally just use Esc, but it doesn't work to well for me for some reason. I think this is a nice work around but it is still broken, IMO. It should auto target the mob of the person I am assisting. Will give feedback after tonights event.
The last raid we did was on Monday night and everything seemed buggy. Group and guild chat didn't work. Lag was terrible. Also, I normally have everyone hotbutton the person who is MA at the start of a raid.I didn't even bother trying to enforce the /assist rule under the circumstances.
I have had a lot of combat/targeting problems recently regadless of /assist.
- Sometimes I get in combat mode and I can't seem to get out of it unless I log out.
- I sometimesam attacking a lair, hit peace and try to use Esc to stop attacking but it doesn't seem to work. I am permanently targeting the lair and everyone in the lair that pops out is then automatically pissed at me and they immediately attack. So instead of dealing with one pissed mob, it soon becomes two, three, and four etc...
- Also, its hard to switch targets at times. If something is attacking me and I select a new target, I am automatically switched back to the mob attacking me (This maybe intermittent, I get confused about what is going on target wise when I am surrounded by multiple mobs). The only way to change this is to double click the mob (ie, switch targets and immediately get into attack mode). Under these circumstances the /assist would not work properly even with the workaround.
I think if they just changed /assist to be the equivalent of double clicking the mob of the person I am assisting, then it would rock. Orjust switch my targeting to the mob of the person I am targeting and I can then start off with a special attack when I am ready to engage. Perhaps a toggle that has auto attack on/off uponassist would be best.
While all these new abilities seem to make SL different from other professions, most of these commands can be mimicked without the actual SL ability, for example /follow, just have everyone /follow the SL, big deal....
I agree with the assessment of previous posters that I'm not too thrilled with all of the new additions. I want to hear more about the existing abilities, what about bonuses at Novice SL? are we getting them or not? What about a global cost reduction for SL abilities...200+ mind fora Volley fire attempt? ridiculous (Volleyfire can be mimicked by just having everyone assist the SL, why not make volleyfire an innate ability, just like maskscent is for scouts?). Things like steady aim which are rarely used...how are all of these being improved?
We are the only Profession that has to spend at least 135 Skill Points (not counting weapon requirements) in order to get a special chat function.
Aden_Nak wrote:
So far our "uniqueness" is very well defined.
We are the only Profession that has to spend at least 135 Skill Points (not counting weapon requirements) in order to get a special chat function.
LOL, I love it.