Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Official: Your Comments on the New Abilities
lets look at it all another way
you are spending 135 skill points to become a master squadleader
what does let you do?
Forces people to /Follow you
(previous and still without the cost of any 135 skill points you just say - everyone go /follow on me if your going afk we leaving)
Forces people to /assist you
(previously and still without the cost of any 135 skill points you just say EVERYONE /assist me on current target)
Designates people to -
Tanking group meleers etc
( previously and without the cost of any 135 skill points you just Tell the group that Melee people pull and tank targets everyone else cover them)
Ranged attackers to stay back from target
(previously and still without the cost of any 135 skill points you just tell ranged people to hang back...common sense really)
order Medics to heal specific players
(previously and without the cost of any skill points you say to the group in combatHeal any incaped, Stop any bleeders and revive if you can - and being medics and aware of things like that they do)
Faster Mind regen...IN CAMPS
(previously and without the cost of any 135 skill points - a Group leader (doesnt have to be a SL) can policing and guide his group effectivly that camping is a vary rare thing... but gee thanks for the chance to heal mind 10 secs faster than previously that will change the balance in power dramitcally)
I cant go on...it's just laughable
To summerise...
People wanting to help groups go Medic or doctor
People justwanting to confirm that they can do most of a skill tree without even taking the profession go for squad leader.
People too stubborn to change with the inkling that in 20 years time the devs may pull there finger out from somewhere the sun dont shine and actually make the profession worthwhile (me) go squad leader.
*Squad Leader Skill....about as useful as a Master Carbiner holding a sword*
Wow, thanks for the great support on replies. I have forwarded this entire thread to the Dev in charge of SLs and I will continue to forward the future responses. Thank you for your vocalization.
If follow me breaks when combat occurs foreveryonein your group right at that point then, just like forced march does,it takes away that annoying you are still following soandso when a fight starts. I hate spending that bit of time trying to break follow when we get in a fight.
Since you can create sub groups and work them seperately in combat things can be done to reduce adds. Your ranged group can be given a fire at will command and use warning shot to drive off adds that the front group gets and comes with the pull. Since the ranged group will be should be doing duty for crowd control, the exp that the tank group gets due to defensive stance maybe balanced out somewhat from the increased damage done by the ranged group in offensive stance.
Looking at a squad leader, I don't see them getting alot of work with groups using cdef weapons. Can you imagine any similiar profession working with brand new characters in a group? "Hey you are a bounty hunter, can you train me for pistol 1? I just got it on that last kill there." So I don't see the defense stance damage reduction for players using cdef's a valid concern. Valid concerns regarding offense and defense stance are regarding how exp works in that situation, it is a tool that is intended to make more people survivable for a whole fight and make greater group challenges more in reach. Hopefully what it does is make your group more able to take out things that they could not otherwise hope to. There is also a real fun element in being able to take out things that you failed at before, such challenges also generate greater experience and this tool will allow a greater tempo for more experience over time. The idea is to reduce downtime, decrease the burden on immediate need healing, this can increase exp per hour if it reduces exp per kill.
Something that might be cool to have would be a bind sight tool, imagine being able to see what your point man sees, maybe have it update your hud map, let you cycle through their visible target list? As you improve as a squad leader you could create priority targets, target 1, target 2, target 3 for the initial fight.
Any good commander will tell you that training, encouraging good initative and having confidence in your people is essential for success. No one can successfully plan and micro manage an engagement, I believe that squad leaders are best part of a good regular group and part of a guild that spends time together. I also really think that a squad leader will be a very important part of a successful pvp group.
The server I play on cuurently has a thread regarding a PvP fight recently. I would like to point to that for our discussion.
"But, there are ways to turn defeat into victory. Tonight, in Coro, a force from I assume Theed came to play. They did well at first, then we were able to turn that around. They called an Elite member with an AT-ST, and came back. How did we put them away quickly? Target AT-ST...find owner..cycle thru target till you target owner...incap or kill owner. If owner is being healed? Find medic, mindshot him good. No Mind, no heals. Once the owners start going down, the bots and pet can easily be killed. Get grouped, get a Squad Leader,and get organized."
<bold added>
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Shadowfire&message.id=5156&view=by_date_ascending&page=1
I'd like to second the call for fixing /group commands. I feel strongly enough about this that I'd be happy to see /group fixed even if it meant SL improvements were delayed.
/group really needs fixing.
--Ze'ev
atm rally is crap failes 75%+ of the time in my experience (im near master SL) and costs WAY too much HAM for what it does....doesnt even do what teh description says its supposed to either
i think steadyaim has been broken since the last big patch...i neve rntoice any accuracy increase anymore
the group defens ebuff si noticed have started to show up....but im not sure that defens emods as a whole r even working in th egame right now
ok...
i hear a LOT of whinign complainign etc about how SL's shouldnt have the ability to control group memebrs....shouldnt be able to make the entire squad do this or do that etc etc etc....
excus eme....then why are we here? A squad leade ris supposed to be able to CONTROL a group
even when i group with just guild memebrs i STILL get tiems where peopel aren tlistening, paying attention, etc.....its horribly worse with peopel you dont know
a group MUST do things together, be on the same page etc to be effective.
If you cant handle obeying orders and playing as part of a team....then enough said dont group. If your already complaining about how your gonna leave a group, or wont group with SL's etc because you'll be forced to do things......then just dotn group ever you shouldnt be in a group with that attitude
i can see the points made. i do think flexibility and stuff is important...i dont think you should crimp on other people if it can be avoided.
HOWEVER.....soem of these new commands will make it FAR easier to control a squad...ESPECIALLY if peopel ar ebeing dunces and not doing what they ought to be doing. pick up a group of 6 noobs and go try and hunt..and tell me soem of these commands wont be useful........you cant tell me they wont be
thats my two cents
theres other skills id rather see...like a formation ide aliek i bounced before..with column, square, line, skirmish, parade rest, etc each with its own advantage and disadvantage
somehting liek a Last Stand..double defenses and +1 AR, but can tmove for liek a minute
but i think these new commands are a good start and at the very least make the SL much mor eunique and useful than he is now...thats for sure
if they fix rally aim and the modifiers while they are at it ill be very happy
on a final note:
if all these type sof commands and stuff are so useless and all......
then why have militaries AROUDN THE WORLD used them for HUNDREDS of years ?
just a thought.
[quote]even when i group with just guild memebrs i STILL get tiems where peopel aren tlistening, paying attention, etc.....its horribly worse with peopel you dont know[/quote]
Really? you have a problem with people listening to you?
Hmm..... I am now constantly leading my PA, and never have problems with this... AFTER I taught all the newer MMORPGers "Group Ettiquette 101" and the such... they now trust me enough to listen to me.
eek... I hijacked the thread... sorry everyone
This sucks, I don't know how else to put it. This is exactly what the squad leaders DON'T NEED.
Last thing I wanted to say, if squad leaders become a pet class (although human pets) where we have to do everything for our group, as this change would do, i'll sadly be leaving this proffesion =/
PanzerGR wrote:
iexcus eme....then why are we here? A squad leade ris supposed to be able to CONTROL a group
If you cant handle obeying orders and playing as part of a team....then enough said
Leadership does not equal control. Let me give you a definition, taken from the book "Leadership: The Warriors Art" by Christopher Kolenda:
Leadership is the art of inspiring the spirit and the act of following.
If you can't handle leading a squad without taking control of other players, then ... enough said.
PanzerGR wrote:
on a final note:
if all these type sof commands and stuff are so useless and all......
then why have militaries AROUDN THE WORLD used them for HUNDREDS of years ?
just a thought.
When are you going to read one of the several replies to this statement?
PanzerGR wrote:
HOWEVER.....soem of these new commands will make it FAR easier to control a squad...ESPECIALLY if peopel ar ebeing dunces and not doing what they ought to be doing. pick up a group of 6 noobs and go try and hunt..and tell me soem of these commands wont be useful........you cant tell me they wont be
on a final note:
if all these type sof commands and stuff are so useless and all......
then why have militaries AROUDN THE WORLD used them for HUNDREDS of years ?
just a thought.
You are right, if I am playing with dunces these commands will be useful because I can control all the characters in the group and they can go afk and eat supper. Wow aren't those dunces enjoying the money they are paying for this game for ME to control their character. Dunces or not I should never be able to control another player's character.
Yes Militaries around the world use these commands, but the soldiers do not have chips in their brains forcing them to carry them out. The soldiers FOLLOW the commands themselves because through training and experience they've learned its the correct thing to do, much like quality groups do now in SWG.
On a somewhat different train of thought I know the profession is called Squad <b>Leader</b>, but as I am gaining the Novice Squad leader box should I have any type of control over quality, more knowledgable players in my group that have been playing since release. I am one of the newest characters in my group of friends so just cause of my professions title all of a sudden I'm in charge of the group. Leadership isn't always about giving commands. In football, the coach and quaterback are the "typical" command giving leaders, but yet isn't that veteran Lineman who follows the commands and works hard in practice every day just as much a leader on the team. Does he not inspire his rookie teammates to excel beyond themselves to achieve greater goals. Likewise I don't believe squad leaders should be JUST about giving commands, but about supporting their groups so the squad go perform better.
the follow and cease fire stuff i dont like. i understand it removes some annoyances from grouping, but i agree its better to just boot people who target stuff they shouldnt.
the formation stuff seems pointless for any game advanatage
the squads bit could be very useful, if you could pick out the front line squadto do a targeted attack on the SL's targeted enemy while the other squads did whatever they were doing. in that way u could target enemy leaders or tough pets while maintaing some order onthe battlefield.
It would be nice if the SL gave meaningul defensive, and offensive bonuses to damage and/or accuracy
it would be nice if the spread damage worked on HAM, not just wounds. that would make a group much more powerful since in theory all of your squads weapons stay in the game longer as people dont incap as fast.
a range advantage would be helpful as well beyond 64 meters.