Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Squad Leader Top 5 Issues & Response
JodoKai wrote:
Third, to person who said I was "ignorant" because I just started being a SL, let me let you in on a little secret, SL isn't the only profession broken. I have two characters one was a Bio-Eng BEFORE the patch, the other is a Droid Eng. I know all about broken professions. As a bio-eng I was a crafter that had schematics that required resources that weren't even included in the game, and this hasn't changed even after the patch. So to hear someone say their profession is broken and the devs don't care about them because it takes too much HAM for one of thier special abilities sounds a bit like whining to me. At least the core functionality of the profession works which is more than some could say.
Actually simply having "core functionality" working is LESS than any other professino can say. Bio-Engineers can still breed creatures, Droid Engineers can still make Droids. Sure, Squad Leaders can lead Squads, but so can EVERY other profession in the game. Imagine a game where Droid Engineers could make droids, but every player could make them too and people who didn't 'waste' skillpoints on DE could make better droids than a Master DE? This is the situation with Squad Leaders.
If our only problem was HAM costs, then yeah this would be whining....but high HAM costs coupled with high fail rates, added to lame abilities, multiplied by abilities that do as much (or more) harm than good, exponentialized by the fact that our truly role defining abilities (to lead a group) are available to every profession--and it allquickly moves WAY beyond whining into utter desperation for the very most broken profession in the game, bar none.
If I may put my two cents into this beast, here goes.
I do agree in a HAM cost reduction and it would be more apt the higher level you go.
Special abilities such as
More factional Pets,
Unique factional pets,
Extra abilities of the squad leader are transferable to members.
Actualy ability modifiers that show. When fighting i do not see any benefit from squad leader nor do my squad. They still have the same modifiers when without a squad leader. (even when successfully rally which is rare and im accomplished)
Group Formation management for travel.
Erectable temporary formations objects and or player run turrets.
--These would be built by crafters and be "placable" quickly during combat. To include the following types:
----Fox Holes
----Short walls to provide cover
----Large walls to provide shelter (against vehicle types or AT-rebel version) types.
----Gun mount (stationary guns based on skill that are greater damage and or armor piercing.)
----Communications center (to call factional allies based on mission) (rebel, imp, Nym, trade fed. etc)
----Call for factional transport (if possible) to transport the squad to or from an area.
Re consider the implimentation of Volley of fire. I find most people get mad at you if you effect who they are targeting and if you only target one of the many enemies that agro your party, someone will go down.
Have on the group menu an option that lets your squad "click in" to allow volly fire to direct them. This will allow you to maintain a "fire team" without setting agro on the poor image designer who just wanted to hang out with friends.
You make us pay greater costs for larger groups but you provide no greater benefit as the abilities do not expand nor are desired by the group on a regular basis.
Suggestion: give some (not alot) of abilities that are individualy usable.
Squad leader is not impossible to get to however it is harder than many proffessions. It provides less benefit than a rifleman and yet, rifleman is imminantly easier to have and use. Pistoleer is the same thing. The only benefit I can see is to destroy an oposing faction base and you are a) the last guy to set the timer and b) dont get any experiance other than bad guy died from it. It should be something you revel in.
An offshoot might be good for this type of tree, Mechanized Infantry (heavy equipment and armor), Covert ops (stealth and transport), Aerospace (air vehicles with guns and or multi person transport) (space expansion)? Also having an elite officer tree for even greater factional services or outside of squad abilities would actualy be something cool to try. I have tons of ideas for that type of concept.
Is this ok?
Security of Chillastra Mayor of Eiger's Crossing
I must say that I misunderstood the purpose of this thread. Thulium stated that he started this thread to discuss what the dev's said, that being the case, everyone complaining about, or not complaining aboutwhat they said was perfectly on topic in this thread. I should have read all the different threads before posting my original statements and for that I apologize. I also think that my initial comments came out a lot more harshly than I intended them to be. I sometimes forget that people can't tell what emotion is in my writing and so what I think is harmless can come across differently when read.
Apologies out of the way, I still feel this is one of the least broken professions. I used Bio-Engineer as an example and will continue to do so: While correct Bio-Eng's could still technically breed creatures, the way they collected the DNA didn't work correctly, a part of the core functionality, the cloths they could make didn't have the resources to make them, core functionality, and the worst, the creatures they made couldn't be tamed, core functionality. Compare that to the problem SL's are having and I can see what Bio-Eng's got Dev love first. That's not to say SL's couldn't use some improving. I have made Master SL since my first post andthere is nothing funnier in the game then a /sys CONGRATULATIONS! You have just opened your Force Sensitive Slot. The SL gives benefits to Melee and to Ranged attack, it gives a Terrain Negotiiation benefit, and in all the times I've used it Form Up has only failed maybe a 1/2 dozen times, and Boost Morale has never failed on me (granted I don't use this one much). Also the most important part of leadership is communication and the /sys command works perfectly. Now are these three abilities enough to make an Elite Profession worth while? heck no, but I feel it's more tweaking than the core functionality being broken. I mean look at Ranger, when was the last time your group said "Darn it we could do this if we only had a Ranger!" or Droid Engineer who ever said, "Send in the Probots to tank for us" It doesn't work when your "Tank" goes down after two hits, yet the devs said Armor makes probots too tough, you talk about no love.
No while I'ma SL now and I love the profession, I have been playing the game too long and tried out too many professions to say that SL is one of the most broken.
JodoKai wrote:Okay, popped a Holocron and got squad leader. I was really excited about it because I was going to go squad leader anyway because it seemed neat to me. I haven't started SL yet I have to finish camping XP (they really need to reduce the amount of XP for that, but that's a discussion for a different board). I tell you all this so everyone will know where I'm coming from:
The way I see things everyone is crying and complaining about what was said or wasn't said in the response and everyone seems to be focused on that. Did everyone miss the part where the developer said to put our heads together and tell them what we want to see? Quit crying, andworrying about what hasn't happened yet and start being constructive. Nothing is set in stone yet and we have the opportunity to have a say in the direction of this profession.
Again JMHO
Bah you want to hear B and C, then come over to my house while I play and you'll hear me doing it non stop. That or I can start a B and C thread just for you chummer.
Believe me we have been very inventive with our ideas about things to make SL better. have yet to hear a dev actually respond to one other than "hang in there".
Read all the threads on the forums if you want to see an idea from us they are every where. To bad the last Dev that showed up here was a corpse that was dumped here after other devs overheard him say he was thinking of fixing something for us after an 7 or 8 month wait!
Commissar Elowa
"May the Rally be with you as the Devs aren't"
NOT ONE SINGLE THING HAS CHANGED IN SL SINCE LAUNCH.
Greg
hah! That wasn't funny at all but at least I tried to laugh. Everything is constructive in some way or another.
If forums were only for the thoughtful and just straight-up think tanks then where would the fun in that be? If we wanted other professions fixed before the devs got around to SL, we wouldn't post in the SL thread would we? We are Squad Leaders and we want some attention! When is this revamp going to happen? They said last year the big professions thing was coming in January, but so far nothing. Then again, how long has this game been out and we are still on the 2nd monthly story? Hah! Things take time. It is when the devs get back to us and say "Yes we are working on it." Even if they keep saying that, it sure is better than once a month and only because we keep whining and complaining.
Complain and whine if you like, every Squad Leader gets frustrated nowadays, but whine and complain about the subject at hand. Unless you are a rebel, then I don't have any love for you
1. Being Ignored by Developers
2. Being Ignored by Developers
3. Being Ignored by Developers
4. Being Ignored by Developers
5. Imperial Hat is still broken (see # 1-4)
Love what Dilune had to say, and it is a 100 percent correct.
Lets take a look at some things not even listed: The function of Passives; Do they really matter?
This is the hardest subjest to determind, due to the fact that if you take a subjest, say a Master Carbineer vs a NPC, you do not know what the NPC's bonuses are to hit and if the SL bonesus actually do anything. This has been touched on to make them visible, but the only wa to tell is have your skill screen up and scroll down your bonuses to see if something happens there.
Let us recap alittle and let me point out some flaws in some of the suggestions, then my thoughts on it.
A fellow posted about making the SL into a Combat Engineer by laying down fortifacations. First of all, fortifacations (terrain for that matter) do not matter in this game because it is not a first person shooter. The only thing that matters is running, standing, kneeling, and prone. This will not improve SL, neither will static weapons created. I too would love to see the IMP 2 man cannon from Empire, but that should not be unique to SL, as any IMP could get that sort of weapon. I do not believe in Unique 'critters' for SL either. Till Dev comes up with neutral followers (well, that are based off of their own faction ie: Borvo/Jabba/ect) SL should not get anything that any other player can get. DO NOT STOP WITH THE IDEAS THOUGH. The best thing to do is push the envelope and inspire others to thinking of something to make us better. I am not flamming your idea, I am giving you construtive criticism. I am trying to point out /why/ I do not think they will work.
On a different thread, a fellow asked why SL doesn't have personal modifacations to stats. He suggested Offensive and Defensive abilities. He used for exsample that a SL should lead by exsample and lead at the front of battle. I am not quoting him here, I do not even remember his name, but with the titles given out to level 4 skills and the idea of SL itself, I think this is what Dev had in mind for the concept.
I do not suggest that the SL himsel be made Offensivily stronger (let his own passive bonuses and skills do that for him), but I loved the idea of the SL being /tougher/. I am not talking passive defences here or wanky defences (Stun resist, KD resist, ect...even though these would fit). But I am talking about giving the SL increased HAM with percentage bonuses through out his tree with master giving the biggest bonuses. This way you don't have that PvP twink who takes two rows of Rifleman, this row of TKA, taking this row of SL to get bonuses. Heck, only /give them/ as Master SL. Same thing can be done with /drasticly/ lowered HAM costs that are universal. Yes, that means if your a carbineer and a SL you do not kill yourself in 15 seconds flat using Carbineer skills and SL skills, and would even allow a SL to for Rifleman (double hits on Mind anyone?).
SL on followers. Simple here...SL gets more based on level of SL and everything he does helps them as well so they are better than any led by any other PC. For the neutral SL, start demanding for Neutral followers that do not follow Reb or Imp members. CorSec, Jabba, Borvo all come to mind, and each have a location to go to ingame. Dev can just make/slap a 'recruiter' down and badda bing, game is better overall.
I think you guys should come up with new skills to be honest, as we as SL have far to few and even less usefull ones. Here is one I posted on a different thread...
-/Charge Level 4 Tactics Skill. Gives everyone in the group the Charge Shot ability for their next shot (they all run forward toward their target and are given a KD shot). Increase all damage by 30% and give a +30 to Melee attack and a -20 to ranged defence for 30 seconds.
Reasoning behind this: Everyone rushes forward to engage the enemy, but makes it easier for the enemy to hit them, if they are standing. This also gives a bonus to Hand to hand fighters in the group to destroy those who are on the ground. Great for mixed party fun.
I have others but I am pressed for time at this moment RL. Please come up with your own but make them balanced.
Another concept I would like to see is the ability to chain our skills, Steady Aim ----> Volley Fire equals a devistating Volley Fire that all have a chance to hit with. Kinda like Dizzy + Lunge for Hand to hand people.
I'm concerned there is no PvsE side of Squad Leader, I know that I'm here to be a Squad Leader for Players, but it would be better if there was some forum of soloing that could be done in a sense. They should alow SL's to hire Mercinarys like Creatur Pets. Or if your afiliated with a Factoin have more then 1 Factoin pet out at a time. Obviusly maintaning a Cap against having multiple AT-STs.