Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Squad Leaders Will NOT Be NPC Handlers.
Page 4 of 4
Telakyte
Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:51 pm
#40
Hey...I have the solution! Wait for the Combat Revamp!
..Oh wait, that doesn't work anymore.
Here's to our survival tree line.
AshamonReborn
Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:48 am
#41
This is the subject that angers me more than anything else in this game, even more than destroying the Star Wars continuity by allowing Jedi into the game. There are several reaons why it makes sense to allow a squad leader multiple faction pets and why the creature handler solution is ludicrous.
1. A stormtrooper is not, I REPEAT, is not a Graul Mauler. How absurd to consider treating a rational and sentient being in the same manner as an animal that functions based upon instinct instead of sentient thought and self awareness? Assinine is what it is.
2. A creature handler is not, I REPEAT, is not a combat leader by skill definition, so why would a creature handler be able to handle multiple NPC faction pets and an Imperial Colonel / Master Squad Leader can not? Does this make sense? No!!! Ask someone who has held the real life rank and let real troops into real combat, like myself!!! Can we at least apply common sense to this argument?
3. A good PvP template provides the fighter the ability to successfully destroy his or her enemies through his or her individual offensive and defensive skill modifications and the use of the right attacks and specials. Professions and mixes of professions exist which enable "INDIVIDUAL" fighting skills. What about a Squad Leader? Where does our strength come from? The answer is simple.... A SQUAD LEADERS STRENGTHS AND ADVANTAGES comes from his or her ability to lead groups of forces into combat efficiently and effectively. Therefore, to balance a Squad Leader against a Rifleman/Swords/TKA template in PvP would require the Squad Leader to either (a) have other players to do the fighting for him... no fun in that for the Squad Leader (Squad Leader can not Solo PvP)... or (b) allow the Squad Leader to call multiple faction NPCs to balance out his or her ability to win such a contest. Can you get it? A squad leaders strength/advantage is in leading a group. The game is built to allow/enable solo PvP based upon mixing skill templates to attain the proper advantages. The Squad Leader's advantage is using a group. Allow him or her to utilize a group of Faction NPCs so that there is a balance in PvP. If you want to nerf the abilities of the NPCs as was done with AT-ST's and Storm Troopers then allow the Squad Leader to call and command enough NPCs to balance out against an Uber Solo PvP Template. THIS ARGUMENT IS SO OBVIOUS IT BAFFLES MY MIND TO THINK THAT PEOPLE DONT GET IT!!!
4. An AT-ST is not an NPC, it is a vehicle. This arguement has been around forever also, and yet ignored. Either (a) treat it as a vehicle and allow an individual to ride inside it and utilize its offensive/defensive capabilities, and/or (b) add a tree for NPCs to utilize something like FIRE SUPPORT whether that be an Armored Support Group (i.e., AT-STs and/or AT-ATs), Artillery, Naval Gunfire (Space to Land), or Air Support). With a firesupport tree the squad leader could call for more advanced support as he masters that tree.
To a seasoned combat veteran these issues and resolutions appear so basic and so simple... the game was supposed to be about the Galactic Civil War and yet people have lost that vision. It was a game where groups worked together to combine skills and capabilities in the accomplishment of objectives either within the GCW or around it. "Empire Divided" is the name, but the game no longer has anything to do with that. It has become a game of individuals, the hologrind had a lot to do with that.. Jedi have destroyed both PvP and the GCW. People stopped working as groups and started the hologrind as individuals. The new Jedi system is no different in that regard. People work as individuals to gain Jedi rank. Eight months ago, a year ago we banded in large faction groups and raided cities and bases. We used combat medics to keep our groups alive, we used commando's as heavy weapons support, we used melee fighters as tanks. My god, melee fighters!! A game of technology based fighting with blasters, robots, and vehicles has become a game where melee fighters rule in pvp. Why not just make it a D&D game and start all over? Sorry, thats another soap box.
Give Squad Leaders the ability to utilize the advantages of a Squad Leader. Defensive and Offensive abilities for player groups, and greater abilities for NPC groups, as well as the ability to utilize a mix of PC and NPC groups within a squad. Balance things so that a Squad Leader can utilize squads when fighting in PvP. If I have a blaster and three storm troopers as a squad leader there should be no LOGICAL reason why I can not take out a melee fighter unless the melee fighter is standing right beside me.
This stuff is so simple... Get with it or give the job of defining the requirements of a SQUAD LEADER to a seasoned combat professional who has led troops into battle in real life and understands what the advantages of such a skill may entail.
Odinwaa
Fri Sep 24, 2004 12:26 am
#42
I disagree. The idea of calling in reinforcements in a close battle is a blessing. If the battle is tight and you call in 5 NPCs not only do the start attacking and draining targets HAm but they confuse the enemy's aiming. Have you ever tried to target the player at a PvP battle when a base spawns and you have 25 red dots to cycle through instead of 5?
Blue-Cloud O'dinwaa
Soldiers of Fayth, AoF, Corellia, Intrepid
Master Rifle, Master SL, Master Scout
Rebel Colonel
Blue-Cloud O'dinwaa
Soldiers of Fayth, AoF, Corellia, Intrepid
Master Rifle, Master SL, Master Scout
Rebel Colonel
Agai
Sat Sep 25, 2004 2:12 pm
#43
My last post is from "InquisitorPayne".
Just forgot to log in with my other handle...
Dogg
Just forgot to log in with my other handle...
Dogg
Therascalking3
Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:48 pm
#44
Beautiful Inquisitor as always.
its times like these i wish i had more time to be back on these forums.
PanzerGR
Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:58 pm
#45
i failt o see why people are still arguing about this
SL's wont be getting extra NPC handling abilities...and we shouldnt
BOTTOM LINE: NPC's are NOT players
SL is NOT a solo proffession
SL's main concern is the enhancement and augmentation and leadership of PLAYER units in SWG.
Hence the conclusion is easy tor each: NPC's turn SL around from what ti should be...a proffession that is there to help out and lead other players. Any skillpoints pumped into NPC handling drops us down out of other abilities and attributes that could be betetr utilized.
A group of 10 players is not goign to care one bit if we get a few extra NPC's......they go down WAY too fast. Tell me why any group im with would care if it's 10 vs 10, the other sid ehas a jedi, we dont...but "oh hey, i can call a few extra NPC's!!!!!!!!!"
lmao
The LAST thing this proff needs is for anythign to turn it away from its primary mission and objective.....and im sorry but solo-handling NPC's is not what the proff is about. If you want to go play solo, go be a CH Swordsman or something. If you wanna eb a real SL, then stick here, lead yoru PLAYER groups..and quit crying about the NPC's.
I can kill a whole imp base INCLUDING the ATST's with my CARBINE in under 5 minutes....how the freak do any of you think having a few extra NPC's is gonna help anything.
Merc93
Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:08 pm
#46
Okay, I'm confused. I've read material that says we will, and material that says we won't. if we won't, how do they plan supporting SL's after peak hours when they can't really group with hardly anyone anymore....impose a curfew? This was one of my ideas too, and I understand that Guild Leaders oppose it because they have an abundance of players to summon to their beck and call, but what about the rest of us/ If SL's can't command soldiers, and there's no plans to give us back the faction pets that were taken from us, then I suggest you recall all the game manuals and strategy guides as well that say we can command "soldiers" (plural) and a single misearable "soldier" (singular). I've always enjoyed using bots in games, but I think I would always favor real players if they were availble. So I guess it's gonna be "mild mannered squad leader by day, NPC & mob food by night", maybe we'll get a weapon at cease to SL's at night and suddenly become Commandos instead? Whateever man, thanks for nothing. If it's really that final, why did you even bother making it a thread for discussion, if the matter's obviously not open to discussion. next time, just post it in an "announcements" page and nevermind our comments. Thanks alot.
No pets
No Macros
No Battlefields
No GCW
and no consideration.
I'm glad I abandoned SL months ago because I don't much feel like being a part-time Squad Leader.
Yeah, well, I won't be playing SL, period. Have fun guys. And when I catch one of you SL's on after hours wihtou your group, I'm going to thoroughly mow you down so you'll understand exactly how good you are as part-time SL's. ...then I'll walk off laughing 'HA HA! Squad Leader without a spuad! HA HA HAHAHAHAHAHA!"
You guys could have better than this, period.
Agai
Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:10 pm
#47
Merc93 wrote:Okay, I'm confused. I've read material that says we will, and material that says we won't. if we won't, how do they plan supporting SL's after peak hours when they can't really group with hardly anyone anymore....impose a curfew? This was one of my ideas too, and I understand that Guild Leaders oppose it because they have an abundance of players to summon to their beck and call, but what about the rest of us/ If SL's can't command soldiers, and there's no plans to give us back the faction pets that were taken from us, then I suggest you recall all the game manuals and strategy guides as well that say we can command "soldiers" (plural) and a single misearable "soldier" (singular). I've always enjoyed using bots in games, but I think I would always favor real players if they were availble. So I guess it's gonna be "mild mannered squad leader by day, NPC & mob food by night", maybe we'll get a weapon at cease to SL's at night and suddenly become Commandos instead? Whateever man, thanks for nothing. If it's really that final, why did you even bother making it a thread for discussion, if the matter's obviously not open to discussion. next time, just post it in an "announcements" page and nevermind our comments. Thanks alot.No petsNo MacrosNo BattlefieldsNo GCWand no consideration.I'm glad I abandoned SL months ago because I don't much feel like being a part-time Squad Leader.Yeah, well, I won't be playing SL, period. Have fun guys. And when I catch one of you SL's on after hours wihtou your group, I'm going to thoroughly mow you down so you'll understand exactly how good you are as part-time SL's. ...then I'll walk off laughing 'HA HA! Squad Leader without a spuad! HA HA HAHAHAHAHAHA!"You guys could have better than this, period.
Although this may sound rude:
Don't let the door hit your ignoarnt backside on your way out!
Dogg
Tharro
Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:29 am
#48
Now my interrests in the game is fully over by now, this the last day of my subscription. Already cancelled and startet to play other MMORPGs. The sologroups and the wait for updates and new stuff is what let me decide to not subscribe any further.
Good luck to you all and hope for you that the CB will come soon and that it will change the game.
)
Merc93
Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:49 pm
#49
Oh no, little Doggie, I won't. I've got my replacement, and I promise you, I'm far from "ignorant" little man. This so-called "solution" only favors one group, just like the macro thing, and just like the other recent so-called "solutions". But I'll stay around long enough stomp people like into the dirt for you lack of , uh, "wisdom"....sorry if that sounds , uh, "rude". Then whenI'm done making a point that no one cares about, I'll join the others, just the guy on end of this thread, and go elsewhere. It won't be long before you, and people like you with your uncompromising one track minds will be left to play alone, and you'll be left wondering "gee, golly private Pyle, where did they all go? Why can't I do squat without 'em?" for someone who depends on others to play your class, you sure don't make thoughful decisions about the other, uh..."ignorant" players here.
*whisper* after teh CB, groups will only be important until 9 pm. Run along little man. It's past your bed time now. *whisper*
iusticum Nacare Regis Impium!
bark, bark.
sorry if that sounds rude.
Don't bother with a witty reply, I've given up participating in these forums, since only the chosen select few are favored, and the rest of us are ignored.
Merc93
Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:33 pm
#50
No one asked me to either, I make this my public apology, of my own accord. I formally apologize to Dogg for so rudely flaming him, whether the action was justified or not. I've often compalined, and recently in fact of the habit of people to deal with arguments via ad Hominumattacks rather than handle the argument on basis of it's merit alone. For this bit of hipocracy, I relent and recall my previous remarks. I have this simple Caveat:
I too would appreciate it, if people could refrain from calling me ignorant because I don't share their treasured viewpoint. In another thread, I watched a guy state that people with disabilities don't have a basis for argument, and have no right to play video games. what a winner. I think it's possible that a fair and operative solution could be had to many of these issues, but I do doubt the purpose of these forums if said solutions are only going to favor one class of players, and ignore the others. The "take it or leave it" mentality is neither useful, or accurate to appraise the topic at hand, and if people could just stop for a moment and think for themselves, and follow their thoughts to their logical conclusions, they will see that some of these so-called "solutions" are complicate matters in other arenas.
To wit, as I have saidin other threads, we won't to work towards resolving the paradox of seemingly contradictory, yet equally true ideas. This is NOT a demonstration of ignorance. if everyone can do this, I will happily eat crow, and refrain from responding to unpleasant in an inflammatory manner. So let's not have this degenerate into flamming, and jsut deal with the topics at hand like mature adults. So Dogg, I won't hunt you down and turn you into mince-meat, and yes, I do reckognize the argument for live play; it's warranted and justified, BUT some of you folks really need to meet some of us half-way and consider the needs and desires of others. So once again, I apologize, but I will only put up with one flaming response to my remarks, after, that, expect me, like anyone else to get down right nasty. So let's avoid that, shall we?
Oxudes
Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:38 am
#51
Why do you people keep arguing, the devs have decided that there will be no npc pets, the end. Why don't you try to think up something you find as good as having SL special pets? Stop the sensless flaming about it, as it won't do any good. If we won't get any pets, there must be something else worthwhile in the SL profession after the revamp? We don't know much yet, so let's just give our suggestions about what ELSE we would like to see in SL.
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