Squad Leader Archive
Thread: *Charges in!*
Espo99
Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:37 am
#40
Tiggs wrote:
Just popping in to say hello to all of the SL's! I have been reading your forum and I see many negative threads. So I want to ask you what is it about Squad Leader that attracted you to make one? And what is your motivation to continue with thisprofession? Be nice in your replies
I choose to be a squad leader to help my guild during both PvP and PvE. The passive defenses are great and some of the skills are very helpful. I am motivated to continue this proffession because of the above mentioned bonuses for my group.
~ Davyn, Master SL/Enforcer
DAVCRE
Geauxx
Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:00 am
#41
The problem with Squad Leader is until CB/GCW fix how can anyone know what benefits will be needed. Example: For the sake of argument lets say the devs take out all "state" effects (i.e. dizzy, stun, blind, etc).What good would "Form Up" be? I hate to admit it but I hope that they don't try to fix Squad Leader until after the CB/GCW fix. I would rather them do it right than give us a few token fixs.
Onefix that I would like to see implemented would be "Battle Cry" that would give a temp buff to the members of a group similar to TKA Power Boost skill.
Geaux Darkcloud
DeltaXi65
Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:35 am
#42
Tiggs,
Other than Scout, I've been a Squad Leader longer than any of my other professions.
The reasons why I took it are simple: my guild is a PvP centric guild, and we are usually out in large groups of 15-20. Our primary opponents are Imperials with loads of Dark Jedi and high level PvPers. In those circumstances Squad Leaders are essential.
The ability to retreat - giving burst runs to all group members- enables us to move quickly around the battlefield, and keep up with Jedi who only have force run 1 or less. It also keeps us off our bikes, which can be destroyed,
The formup command removes stun and dizzy - two of the DoTs that cause the most damage in PvP, particularly against Jedi using saber throw or dervish. Any group without a SL will quickly get slapped around and Knockdown/Dizzied so they can't get up very quickly.
Boostmorale (which spread wounds across all group members) , coupled with TK meditate, makes it easy to heal groups quickly in between fights where lots of disease and fire DoTs (which create wounds).
System Message to Group is usefull in coordinating between players in TS or Ventrillo and those just in the group, and makes it easier to communicate.
Steadyaim, Volleyfire and Rally are rarely, if ever used.
Group terrain negotiation, ranged and melee defense are also useful in fights, but are often forgotten because they're passive bonuses.
The problem though, is thus: other than formup and the passive bonuses, none of these commands are currently being used as they were originally intended. Retreat was not designed to provide a constant burst run, but with mind buffs it can. Boostmorale wasn't designed to work with TKMs to heal wounds - simply even them out to help a player who got hit particularly hard. And the other commands were designed to be useful, but do not presently work. Rally is the worst - using it makes it impossbile to use most commands and the defensive bonuses aren't good enough to make it worthwhile.
Overall, SLs need some love - particularly in the command and control aspect. As a Squad Leader, I want to feel more operationally in control of the battle field. I want to be able to direct the fight. Either by providing the group with a target or forcing them to attack my target. I also want to be able to direct volleys of specials at characters - a number of rifleman all strafe shotting a single player through the squad leader would be powerful ... volleyfire now only uses a regular attack.
Ialso want some pretty hefty defensive bonuses based on the number of players in my group - it's impossible for a Master SL/Master Combat Profession to get to Doctor, or even very high in medic, and because we shout our commands in spatial, we are always the #1 target in PvP. A dead squad leader is useless, as is a KD/Dizzied squad leader. Defensive bonuses based on the size of the group and only active when in a group would be extremely beneficial to most of us out there.
I'd also like for it to be taken into account that while many squad leaders are ranged professionals, there is a growing minority (like myself) that are now melee because of the defensive modifiers. It may be a good idea to review the pre-reqs to take that type of game play into account.
In terms of PvE - SLs don't have a huge role to play, unless you're going up against creatures like Krayts, Kimos or Nightsisters that like to stun/dizzy. But there are applications.
I know there's a lot of people in here who are unhappy, but don't let that get in the way. SLs need fixing, but we are by no means completely useless. As I said before, the hallmark of an excellent PvP group as opposed to a good one is if they've got a squad leader and how well they protect them.
That's my list. 
B
Deplomatic
Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:02 am
#43
Tiggs wrote:
Just popping in to say hello to all of the SL's! I have been reading your forum and I see many negative threads. So I want to ask you what is it about Squad Leader that attracted you to make one? And what is your motivation to continue with thisprofession? Be nice in your replies
Why I Play as a Squad Leader?
Just look at my 2 movies in my sign. and you know why!
Message Edited by Deplomatic on 10-13-2004 07:04 PM
Yeraze
Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:50 am
#44
DeltaXi65 wrote:
MilleSabor wrote:To be honest: I don't think we shall see Tiggs again in this forum - this all reminds me very much about something we had a year ago and which led to the demise of the former SL-correspondent Captian Vemnox:SOE Squad Leader Correspondent Report #3SL PetitionSquad Leaders: Top 5 IssuesNothing ever happened...And yes: I hope me and my defaitism will be proved wrong...CUMilleDon't be that defeatist. We'll see Tiggs back here.
She jumped about 15 professions to come down here anyway. She's only on the "C"s with her "getting to know you posts".
SL hasn't been on the radar screen for a while now - but we've been promised a full revamp, and while the Devs do take their time to get around to things (see the Smugglers), they've never promised a profession a revamp and failed to do it.
B
At least the Smugglers get dev attention, if not dev love. We get neither, except the occasional pat on the head saying "It's ok, we know you suck".
SladdisOjos
Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:04 pm
#45
Personally I like to be the leader, take responsibility, grouping, group hunts, etc. So SL seemed like a tailor-made profession for me. I still like it, but only in roleplaying sense. Gamewise it has little or no use. So now its more like a title then an actual asset for the group. With the amount of skill points spent on mastering squad leader I could be much bigger asset to my groups if I would use them on (almost)any other profession. Here are my 2 cents on how this could be improved:
1. /boostmorale For Christ sake, this skill should work on damage, not wounds.
2. /volleyfire shouls indeed change everyones target to SL's current target.
3. How about some kind of damage mitigation for the group? This would _instantly_ make squad leaders valuable gamewise.
4. Temporary small buff to mind stats. This is what good squad leaders in real life do(trust me, I know)! They make the group mentally stronger. Buff doesnt need to be big, something like +100 or +200 to one or all stats for very short period of time(30 secs?). Also this could have a re-use timer which decreases as SL progresses(novice can use it once in 10 minutes, master once in...say 3 minutes?)
5. If buff is out of the question the how about mind heal? Group is beaten up, SL cant heal health or action, but he should be able to heal small amounts of mind damage.
But like I said, just my 2 cents...
1. /boostmorale For Christ sake, this skill should work on damage, not wounds.
2. /volleyfire shouls indeed change everyones target to SL's current target.
3. How about some kind of damage mitigation for the group? This would _instantly_ make squad leaders valuable gamewise.
4. Temporary small buff to mind stats. This is what good squad leaders in real life do(trust me, I know)! They make the group mentally stronger. Buff doesnt need to be big, something like +100 or +200 to one or all stats for very short period of time(30 secs?). Also this could have a re-use timer which decreases as SL progresses(novice can use it once in 10 minutes, master once in...say 3 minutes?)
5. If buff is out of the question the how about mind heal? Group is beaten up, SL cant heal health or action, but he should be able to heal small amounts of mind damage.
But like I said, just my 2 cents...
akamai_keniki
Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:15 pm
#46
As someone who 1) has been through almost all the support professions and 2) just began my path to Squad Leader, I can still read these posts and understand the feelings of most. I can say we had a Master SL in our guild who was a lot of fun and became invaluable to the team. Unfortunately, he too dropped it in order to have some combat skills. The benefits of the proffession versus the number of skill points it consumes does not seem to be practical.
That being said, I am taking up SL cause my currently guild is becoming heavily involved in PvP. When PvPing against stronger Imperial opponents with several DJK on their side, the burst run and state heals become very important.
I will continue perusing these forums and look forward to any changes that may lie ahead. I salute you who have stuck with your profession and still love it despite its faults.
Soda_Jedi
Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:33 pm
#47
Tiggs wrote:
Just popping in to say hello to all of the SL's! I have been reading your forum and I see many negative threads. So I want to ask you what is it about Squad Leader that attracted you to make one? And what is your motivation to continue with thisprofession? Be nice in your replies
Hi Tiggs!
It's nice to see that you popped in for a second time 
. Now, to answer your questions:
. Now, to answer your questions:Like quite a few people here, the minuteI saw that the Squad Leader class was available for play Iimmediately focused myself on playing this profession.The idea of leading a group with a title "Squad Leader," even if it was Novice, appealed to me greately at the time. I guess I was also a blowhard, thinking that the title would give me a lot of respect among the community (granting that I lead some pretty decent groups ).
).To be honest with you and everyone (like who cares right? ), I was never big on grouping. When I played on those old style MUDs I hated the idea of grouping. When Iplayedon Everquest, I hated the idea of grouping.Fastforward after playing AO, DAoC, E&B, <insert MMORPG in existance prior to SWG>, et cetera... andlo and behold... I still hated the idea of grouping.
), I was never big on grouping. When I played on those old style MUDs I hated the idea of grouping. When Iplayedon Everquest, I hated the idea of grouping.Fastforward after playing AO, DAoC, E&B, <insert MMORPG in existance prior to SWG>, et cetera... andlo and behold... I still hated the idea of grouping.I wasn't having any fun either.
Then I decided that, not only should I start grouping, I should swallow my tendancy to be embarassed and start groups of my own. Which leads me to my answer for your second question (and the reason for the above rant ).
).The fact that Squad Leader encouraged me to learn how to play with other people, and therefore learn to enjoy the MMORPG experience, is a big reason as to why I'm still one. Broken as it is, I owe it a lot for helping me come to this realization. Also, I actually do get some respect from people as I pass by with my "Master Squad Leader" title, despite the fact that they usually wouldn't want to group with me . I'm also lucky to have some friends on here that keep edging me on to stick with it, (and again, I get a lot of respect from them ).
. I'm also lucky to have some friends on here that keep edging me on to stick with it, (and again, I get a lot of respect from them ).Well, that's about it. Under normal circumstances, I would lace this post with some negativity. However, my blood pressure's really high right now, so I need to take it easy .
.
kestrellklein
Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:20 pm
#48
First off, I'm not a SL, but I know and understand the idea behind them. Tiggs, or whoever, if you want an idea of what this class needs, go look at your other game, Everquest.
The SL should be exactly like the Bard.
If any of you know what I'm talking about, you'd seriously agree.
BadMisterFrosty
Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:14 pm
#49
Forums are not about chatting with developers, or giving them ideas.
They are for:
- customer loyality / retention
- measuring what customers want
..to increase / assuresales.
Its like asoda company askingtheir target group what flavor they like most, then produce that lemonade, so many people buy it.In addition, people are much more loyal if they feel included. Thats it.
You tell them why you play Squad Leader, they will alterit to make youpay another decade. If they feel a change is notrequired (because you are happy enough to pay another decade), they won't change it. Simple.
MilleSabor
Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:16 pm
#50
Sorry for the OT-post:
You, Sir, are utterly wrong - this is not a marketing-study! A forum is about communication - and I am glad that the Devs understand at least the gist of that as the following remark from his Thunderheartness hisself shows:
Snip----------------------------------------------------
No worries. Its just nice to see the community getting to a more even keel so we can have more stimulating debates - - I'd like to see us all get back to the days of long debates and discussion without activating our flame-troll powers. Though it should be known that I alwaysused to be a somewhat controversial poster to encourage strong discussions- - thats what makes forums fun, exciting and entertaining. We just have to remember to keep things within policy guidelines.
Snap----------------------------------------------------
It might well be that your post was meant in a sarcastic way however - if so I want to apologize for being too stupid to get it...
CU
Mille
BadMisterFrosty
Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:43 pm
#51
There is nothing wrong with making money, because they need to make us customers happy, so listen what we want.Yes, they might enjoy discussions and of course they like tofeedback, but that in the third place.
I am studying communication design (including marketing)... Information about your target group is crucial, to say the least. And there is nothing wrong with it. Its just... Many people acquit themselves as if the devs haven't the faintest idea and just sit and wait for your ideas,then applaud and ask for more.
Yeraze
Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:33 pm
#52
So.. anyone else surprised that Tiggs (or any other Redname) hasn't come back since this?
Thought not.. The bi-annual RedName post seems to have satiated the crowd's thirst for attention once more.
What a load...
Thought not.. The bi-annual RedName post seems to have satiated the crowd's thirst for attention once more.
What a load...