Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Why fixing Squad Leader can fix other professions too.
<sigh>
These are good ideas but good ideas dont get the job done.
Are the devs going to give us some TLC with the next patch?
Are the devs even interested in your ideas?
Are the devs even going to respond?
Give me a reason to not drop master squad leader cause my faith in SL is faltering.
Enjoying the profession however is simply something that is in the eye of the beholder so to speak. Do I enjoy my system message and my title, do I enjoy the fact that it show's that I have the ability to lead, yes I do. However I don't enjoy the fact that I spent over 100 skill points on a profession that gives me minimal tangible bounuses to leading a group.
Here's just a random thought that i know has been voiced before. I was flying in between planets the other night and I got the "waypoints" loading screen, and on the loading screen it said that group leaders could see all waypoints for group members........ Not something that appears to be in. But I think it would be a nice squadleader ability. Personally I think /aimfor, /painttarget, and the ability to see all waypoints (could be added to the left negotiation tree 
) would most definetally be fixes that make actually mastering this profession worthwhile.
All these are great ideas, however i believe the extinguish and rations belong with other professions.
The /painttarget would really make my day as a squadleader.
Furthermore just a little word on how much the bonuses really does, would really help out.
// th0mas
Aefa Freesky @ FarStar.
The funny thing is, I had none of those ideas in mind when I began writing the original post. The main point is to change (the developers) perspective on Squad Leader. I started listing any broken profession or game element I can think of and come up with a way that a Squad Leader would handle the situation. Squad Leader as a gaming profession is already balanced in that none of our abilities help us, but instead help others. If the devs began to see us as a sort of "dumping ground" for other fixes, it would not only make Squad Leaders desirable, it fixes a problem, AND it encourages cooperation and group play...something that SWG is currently quite lacking. There are certainly other professions that can legitimately take some of the things suggested here, but Squad Leader is so barebone dry and includes the aforementioned automatic game balancing function that I feel the Devs should think of Squad Leaders FIRST when deciding where to throw a new ability.
I'll say again that /aimfor is not a good idea... it takes away other classes specialties/identities, and that's something that should never be done in a MMORPG.
And I would HATE the devs to waste time making indiviual skills that we would use ONLY if a certain class was in our group. I want any and all skills given to us to effect EVERYONE in the group, not just a chef or rifleman etc... this would be a complete waste of the devs' precious time.
The one thing I do agree with in this thread is something we've all been championing for a long time... HAM bonuses for folks in our groups. With the new combat HAM system coming, we could offer a passive reduction in the HAM costs for folks using specs in our groups... and also boost HAM regeneration. This type of ability would help EVERYONE in our groups regardless of class, so it's a great example of the kind of thing the devs should look into for SL.
nesper79 wrote:
i am not a squad leader but shouldnt you all get a bonus to how many people you can group like 25 or 30 instead of 20? would be a great addition with that krayt ham going up.
I suspect that rather than having larger groups, we Squad Leaders would prefer to have access to a Raid function like that on EverQuest. But I think the only reason a raid system isn't already in place is because the servers can't handle that many people in one place at a time, once the game is ready for it I believe a Raid system will be put in place...but, most likely, ANYONE will be able to use it rather than just Squad Leaders. *sigh*
But, speaking of EQ and raids, I heard that a group of 300 people fought for 3 hours last night and managed to slay "the Sleeper" on Rallos Zek!! ...I was never particularly enthused by EQ, but I nearly poodoo'd myself when I heard that.
Well think about a game like FFXI. There is no leader per se but everyone wants to group so they can take on larger mobs. Now anyone can do that now in SWG and everyone plays off of each other. In huge groups. SWG shouldhave had a limit on the amount of people who can group together at one time. Like 6 or something. Thenhave it so SLs canadd more people to that group.
Butwhat Squad Leaders really need to provide is a way to make everyone in the group more effective. Lower HAM costs help not only the combat professions but the support classes like medics. Passive buffs are a good way to go. An idea I had a while back, that I think a few others have had, was to Make special attacks that are only "unlocked" when the group has a SL as the leader. It could be required that both the SL and the player are both masters in their profession. ie. Rifleman, pistoleer, carbineer, etc. Since this would be a pretty powerfull attack it would need a long timer on it, Say like an hour or something.
Commands like /targetpaint and /aimfor are pretty simple commands. /targetpaint is a pretty good novice SL skill. /aimfor is exactly the same as /vollyfire right now except that one volly is on a single HAM bar. Granted its not very powerfull but for example if the SL notices that the action on a Mob has dropped but everyone in the group is using pistols then he uses a /aimfor{action} command and it hits their action dropping the Mob.
With these skills and the pet/CH reworking, SL will be sought after.
The one idea that seems to get the most fanfare is "/aimfor". Even though it is a great idea (and keep them coming too), I don't like it much simply because, as someone else has pointed out, it takes away the explicit abilities given to different combat classes.
That being said, let me just say that I love he squad leader profession as is, but I think there could be some additions. Isn't a squad leader a lot like a general? Personally, I feel that novic squad leader should be more difficult to attain. It only takes 7500 combat xp. I had a harder time grinding out the survival xp, only to find that I had somewhere in the area of 250,000 combat xp when it came time to look for a squad leader trainer for the first time. Talk about balance....
But I also think the rewards should be higher. I'm not necessarily talking about new commands, either. I'm talking about the effeciveness of what was already there. I was so excited to finally learn the "/rally" command a few days ago. I had not even fathomed the idea that it might even have a chance of not working. Lo and behold, I have to use it 3-4 times before going into combat. Half my mind was gone before I even fired a shot. Last night, that lent itself towards disaster as I was also our group's cheif healer.
What I'm talking about is more like we see on the pistoleer tree. Nothing bugs me more than having to learn a few worthless skills just to get a good one. So, instead of having to wait for a second level skill to get a group skill modification, I don't see why we can't get smaller group skill modifications for each step of the way. Also, why not add some very minor attribute bonuses for the squad leader alone as his survival should be important to the survival of the rest of the group. I"m not talking anything major, but if the group gets a +20 bonus to melee defense, the squad leader should bet, perhaps, a +4 or +5 because his rise up the ranks to squad leader should be determined just as much by his individual attributes as it is by how much he can help others.
Plus, make /rally work. I took it off my hot-key bar after last night. It hurt our party more than it helped.
Well john... here is how I see the /aimfor command working (Thulium might have a different view ^_^ ).
Say you have a group of 5 people in your group including yourself. 3 of your squadmembers use pistols while one uses a carbine. The pistols are dropping the Health HAM bar but with with carbine packing more of a punch its dropping the Action HAM at almost the same rate as the Health. So do a /aimfor on the action or leg or whatever it would be set as and watch that green bar drop. All it is, is a /vollyfire (one use) that targets a specific HAM bar. Its not high damage so its not going to be overused. It just gives a tactical advantage in certain situations. SLs need to know their groups abilites so they can direct... and lead.
Thule you might want to explain your version in detail if it is different than mine.
Nah...I think you basically got it, Irott. If this ability is implemented, I would recommend Squad Leaders work closely with their nearest Chemical Weapons expert. Poisons and diseased will no longer incapacitate, but instead will leave your opponent with 1hp left that can be a bit tricky to get rid of considering Stims and regens, etc. If you're watching your Chemical Weapons targets, a well-placed /aimfor command would be just what the Doctor....er...Combat Medic...ordered!
This skill isn't so much about putting a modifier onto a shot, as much as it is about "turning a motley crew intoa serious fighting force." If your squad consists of some mix of pistoleers, carbineers, rifleman, BH's, Commandos, TKA's, Pikemen, Fencers, Swordsmen, and Smugglers...Everyone is damaging different pools (or randomly) and from where I'm sitting, that's not working together. Perhaps it's best to think of /aimfor as a "finishing" move rather than a "special." Because it's not as much designed for doing the heavy damage, but as a method of focusing the attack onto a weakpoint to make it go BOOM.
the makeup of your party would not matter with /aimfor... you would genericly blend everyone into one type by having them all aim for one ham, and that's lame in my opinion. YES it would be more powerful, but it strips folks of their class' identities. If I have a pistoleer, a carboneer, and a rifleman in my group, and I tell them all to hit MIND, the pistoleer and the carboneer would now lose their specialties and in effect become riflemen. I don't want to impose that on anyone. Plus it would make EVERYONE want to just be a pistoleer instead of specializing in rifleman or carboneer, since a SL would be able to direct their shots anyways... so even FEWER people would choose RM or C.