Squad Leader Archive

Thread: What Should The New Name of Squad Leader Be?

Owet
Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:53 am
#27

I find it mindboggling that there is such resentment for the changes. I for one would take the proposed changes over waiting another 2 years for them to work on the changes some of you have suggested. Alot of the suggestions sound great, but they would probably take alot of man hours to put into the game, and that's not realistic to expect for a profession like ours.

IMO, the main reason that they are no longer restricting it to the group lead is because that would then limit many, many people that would want to pick up some Squad Leader.



Lt. Elcith Weiri
Executive Officer

The Crimson Order
Owet Weiri
Master Crafter of Rocket Launchers


jphillips1868
Sat Sep 24, 2005 10:35 am
#28

The only change I am suggesting is that they makeXP for squad leader skills andthe use of all SL specials be contingent on being the group leader. As for coding thats the way its historically has been so they need only revert their code to the original.


As for the NPC handler, this proposal was brough up by the Devs a couple of months after launch and soundly rejected by the SL community.


The point of the profession is to enhance the playstyle of leading groups of players. Making it an NPC hander demeans the profession and confuses its true purpose.
jphillips1868
Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:41 pm
#29

I know I started this thread with a sarcatic, suggestion, but I firmly believe this profession needs a name change if it goes through. It does not remotely refelct what the Devs are turning it into.


I am not sure what it ought to be, but squad leader, it is not.


Oss_Wilum
Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:42 pm
#30

i don't understand why it's such a hot button issue for everyone.


if you have experience in a dungeon or whatever, you'll still lead, if you don't then you wouldn't.


just being the "group leader" doesn't mean you lead the group. The one who knows exactly what to do leads the group and that is never the same person all the time.


take me and the DWB.


I am a jedi, i know that place like the back of my hand. if we had a squadleader from the guild who wanted to come, and say you needed to be groupleader to do stuff, doesn't matter if he is the groupleader, he'd still take MY orders since i'm the most experienced in any guild run on the place and no one else knows the map like i do.


just being the one who invites and kicks people doesn't mean you lead the group at all. by the same token, just beacause you don't have the (GL) next to your name doesn't mean you don't lead the group.


it just makes things easier IMO and theres no GOOD reason to have it any other way, exepting balance issues, which will probably be dealt with in other ways anyway.




-Excellion Khahi-
Dark Jedi

(gnn[[[[[[[[[[nnnnWX9ggggggggggggggggggggg)


"Remember remember the 15th of November
And the NGE treason and plot.
I see no reason why the NGE treason
Should ever be forgot."


Vendor: 6457, 2684 Tatooine

Sylow
Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:13 pm
#31






[...]exepting balance issues, which will probably be dealt with in other ways anyway.



Up to now i have not seen a single thought about balance in the complete concept. And if no balancing is done on foresight, we all know ho balancing is done as aftersight. I definitely don't want to experience that here... sure, we can't fall below the least played profession, since not played at all still holds the same rank, but that's no reason not to care.


And as long as there is not a single word about balance and actual playability (yes, that part also is not really seen from all sides, the whole thing was only approached from a PvE way, PvP was not taken into account the slightest bit) we'll continue raising our concerns.

Message Edited by Sylow on 09-25-2005 05:14 AM






Learn to sing!
Infinity - Papyn Biboon
MSL, MCarb Grunt Leader
BadChef
Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:17 am
#32

I can't beleive after all this time that folks are still rehashing the same tired argument that we're not even tryingdebate. Leader doesnt equal group leader, ok, we all know that and have known it and that's one of the basics I've seen on this forum for awhile now before all the born agains showed up, it's one of the first peices of advice I've seen given to new SL's. How many times do people like Sylow, scout, and others have to break it down before people actualy read through a post or two and understand that there is no debate over being group leader. There is only concern over balance and what we'l end up with a month or so down the road after the revamp hits.


The next genious to spit out this played out argument again like they're the first ones to bring this logic to light, atleast keep it short.






xfire name: thachef
__________
BadChef: Smuggler
captiansarcasmo
Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:31 am
#33






BadChef wrote:

I can't beleive after all this time that folks are still rehashing the same tired argument that we're not even tryingdebate. Leader doesnt equal group leader, ok, we all know that and have known it and that's one of the basics I've seen on this forum for awhile now before all the born agains showed up, it's one of the first peices of advice I've seen given to new SL's. How many times do people like Sylow, scout, and others have to break it down before people actualy read through a post or two and understand that there is no debate over being group leader. There is only concern over balance and what we'l end up with a month or so down the road after the revamp hits.


The next genious to spit out this played out argument again like they're the first ones to bring this logic to light, atleast keep it short.








QFE!!!


the only reason the gl/sl change was debated is because that this change borked the code and opened up avenues for exploits and future nerfs. it was simple to see that the easiest fix and most probable to keep all the new abilitieswas to change that aspect back the way it has always been. if it wasn't for that aspect of the issue WE COULDNT CARE LESS TO BE GL!!! i gave up weeks ago, anyone who stands behind squad leader gets painted as an egomaniac by like 5 posters, when we are probally some of the most humble players out there. oh well, i think those who didn't listen to the warnings will be the first to cry nerf, and those are the folks who have all but ruined this game anyways.



jailyn

jphillips1868
Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:45 am
#34






BadChef wrote:

I can't beleive after all this time that folks are still rehashing the same tired argument that we're not even tryingdebate. Leader doesnt equal group leader, ok, we all know that and have known it and that's one of the basics I've seen on this forum for awhile now before all the born agains showed up, it's one of the first peices of advice I've seen given to new SL's. How many times do people like Sylow, scout, and others have to break it down before people actualy read through a post or two and understand that there is no debate over being group leader. There is only concern over balance and what we'l end up with a month or so down the road after the revamp hits.


The next genious to spit out this played out argument again like they're the first ones to bring this logic to light, atleast keep it short.








I wholeheartedly disagree. The balance question is insiginificant compared to the question of what the profession should be about: enhancing the play of players interested in leading groups or becoming a magic based profession that is harmful to the game as a whole by destroying Star Wars immersion.


I actually trust the Devs to get balance right, eventually. Its the big picture questions that they are all mixed up on.
OffensiveSoldier
Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:49 am
#35

....too many long, hard, and difficult words :/



Gone on to better things
R.I.P. Iamreb, CatInTheHat, and Jagan.
Sylow
Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:19 am
#36







I actually trust the Devs to get balance right, eventually. Its the big picture questions that they are all mixed up on.




What kind of balance are you looking forward?



  • The one where _one_ SL in group is balanced and if there are _eight_ youhave a massively overpowered group?
    (Resulting in severe balance issues in PvP.)

  • The one where _eight_ SLs in one group are balanced and the effect of a _single_ SL is negligible?
    (Means that SL is badly nerfed again and the MSL again is mostly useless, so the profession by itself gained nothing.)

We presented several concepts here where this problematic will not happen, but just closing your eyes and hoping/believing that nothing bad will happen when not thinking about possible exploits of the system is not going to lead to any positive results.


Thus, even if you disagree, i dare to say that balance is _the_ deciding factor for a lot of people here. The whole "magic" thing doesn't really appeal to me. I mean, what do we have now?


  • We "magically" remove stun and dizzy from the team.

  • We "magically" increase accuracy and defence of the team.

  • We "magically" increase damage inflicted on a target.

  • We "magically" give the group terrain negotiation.

I actually see limited difference in functionality in the future... oki, we don't have passive bonuses any more, everything has to be activated, but this indeed decreases the level of "mysterious magic" involved in my eyes. (I currently convert the lazy couch-potatoe into a skilled freeclimber by just standing next to him in game... how more magical can it get? *grin*)


Thus the whole "magic" think actually interests me very little. The question if we will lead or not might already be of slightly bigger concern, but not because there is the _leader_ in the name.I worry a bit more aboutseveral people in the new design who decide to either lead or also only to use their limited SL abilities for their own advantage without caring for leadership at all. In this case, the team easily can be better off without an SL than with one of those people.... there is hope that incompetent leaders will be rooted out within limited time, but i don't really believe in that. The benefits for just dabbling in the new SL to improve yourself when being alonewill be (according to all we know at the moment)just too good for many people to skip them.


But even this is secondary in my eyes, balance itself is my primary concern.

Message Edited by Sylow on 09-29-2005 03:21 PM






Learn to sing!
Infinity - Papyn Biboon
MSL, MCarb Grunt Leader
jphillips1868
Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:54 am
#37

  • We "magically" remove stun and dizzy from the team.
  • We "magically" increase accuracy and defence of the team.
  • We "magically" increase damage inflicted on a target.
  • We "magically" give the group terrain negotiation.


  • True enough.


    But the difference between now and post SL revamp, is thatat the very least being the leader of group would make the group more effective. So increased damage and accuracy could be a refelection of how the leader is directing the fire, group terrain negotiation as relefection of a leaders directions as to how to stay in formation, take the best route, ect. These are abstractions I will admit, but they are important to maintain the character of the game.


    All that being said perhaps I am not taking the balance issues seriously enough, its not that I don't think they are a problem, its just that the Devs sooner or later fix these, while the contiunual errosion of the Star Wars character of the game has been marking on since the GCW revamp. To me, it doesn't matter much if the game is balanced, if its no longer a Star Wars game, as there would be no reason to play.
    KJFett3
    Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:12 am
    #38

    Magic? We are SLs, not mages.




    jphillips1868 wrote:

  • We "magically" remove stun and dizzy from the team.



    • I focus my men constantly during combat to insure they are sure in their step and not caught off-guard.



    • We "magically" increase accuracy and defence of the team.



      • My men/women are inspired by my leadership and compeled to shoot more accuratly and fight more effeciantly under my command.



      • We "magically" increase damage inflicted on a target.



        • Because of the leadership shown in the above comment, my squad is able to more effectively concentrate its firepower on a target, allowing more of the damage to affect the target more quickly.



        • We "magically" give the group terrain negotiation.



          • I motivate my men by example and lead them across terrain in way that allows for more rapid transit across. (ie. they aren't all trudging through mud because i lead them around it at a faster pace)






            That's all I will comment on....We are no mages nor doctors....we don't magically do anything.




            !Drevin of DROW!
            !!
            Dalponis
            Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:33 am
            #39

            Okay, I am a Squad Leader. I usually roleplay my buffs if need be. I’m yelling at the group, telling them to form up, so they do. I don’t use magic at all, I use my Wookiee anger and order the group to rally up or form up.

            Anyway, a few of the changes seem nice, but this "buff" for armour does indeed sound weird. I just don’t like the idea I have to go around buffing the group instead of the whole group at once.

            Members are in a group with a Squad Leader; they should get the armour buff just being close to the said Squad Leader.

            Also, what's this “we don't have to lead the squad anymore, even if we're the squad leader”? That has to change. I was great at leading my boling squads on Dantooine.

            Changes:
            (1) Squad Leader must lead the squad.

            (2)a. Extra Squad Leaders can give extra buffs, but the group leader needs to be a Squad Leader.
            (2)b. Better yet, one Squad Leader per group.

            (3) Armour Buffs are not, in essence, cast, they are just applied being within 50m of the Squad Leader.

            ---

            Whoa, sometimes I amaze myself. Look at how much better the profession is with those three small changes.

            Message Edited by Dalponis on 09-30-2005 11:43 AM



            -I support Dalponis' Ideas of a new SWG & balancing the old combat system.
            ...and making SWG a better place to be.
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