Squad Leader Archive

currently it boils down to this:

the squadleaders currently playing this proffesion want one squadleader to lead because we like to have balanced groups with many abilities within this group. i will continue to play this way change or no. but... if a sl wishes to pvp he will be forced to have a multi squad leader group to compete.

we could care less to be general, its not a head trip. its to elliminate thefact that we will be spending all of our time in chat with the various squadleaders in our group making sure we do not apply buffs that counteract eachother.

so exciting to see all of our new abilities vs. the three or so that worked before, but now i'll just divide those abilities amongst all the sl in my group.... whoops, i have three abilities again... and i cant use them all at the same time....

once again i would like to go back to this: - http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/content.jsp?page=Combat%20Upgrade:%20Combat%20Schematic - which is supposed to be the basis of the cu and grouping. how does this new sl army serve this? notice there are 10 roles in the chart. an 8 man group witheven 2 sl does not leave room to achieve this ideal group.

LOVE THE CHANGES! except that ONE.

As a dedicated Squad leader I wouldn't be bothered if I could use my abilities without being the lead.

However I do think a Master Squad Leader = The Squad Leader ironically.

They could get round this by making the passive abilities stack but only the Group Leader can use the abilities ( best of both worlds)??

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Naler Adet - Celdo Sanders

oh yeah... and i totally agree with Drevin... again...

there is even less insentive to master now that passive bonuses will be gone. the weapons at master level have comparable non cert weapons. if some of the best sl moves were gained at master it would encourage folks to do so. a group led by a master squad leader should have an advantage over a group led by a dabbler.

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_scout_ wrote:

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Higginsis wrote:



By letting the squad leaders not being able to lead?

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there is even less insentive to master now that passive bonuses will be gone. the weapons at master level have comparable non cert weapons. if some of the best sl moves were gained at master it would encourage folks to do so. a group led by a master squad leader should have an advantage over a group led by a dabbler.

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DiLune wrote:

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_scout_ wrote:

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Higginsis wrote:

By letting the squad leaders not being able to lead?

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This argument says to me that you have such a tenuous hold on leading your groups that the only way you can establish leadership is to use the GL requirement for SL as your kludge to get group leadership. Post revamp I expect to retain my group leadership position and marvel at the old time SLs who do not.

Higgins is right, this will open the profession up so that you are not dead weight when you are in a group if there is already another SL. You all are worried about the effect of an 8 man SL team, but what if instead of 7 other SL's they all had a different combat prof that did more damage, had better roots, etc. Isn't that what they are sacrificing to get the SL buffs applied by 7 other people? I don't think that's overpowered, I think in the end it makes up for what you would have had with a different combat elite profession.

And that is what CL is all about. SL has not lived up to its CL whether you were the group leader or not. Now it will live up to its CL and even better it will do so if you aren't the group leader so you are not dead weight in a group with 2 SL.

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No not realy. I dont hold tenously to being the groupleader or keeping the leadership, but what I see is the confusion ppl go through when mutliple leader types (with or without having squad leader as profession) cause.

In groups without a squadleader ppl discuss about what is their next move and the natural leader finally calls the direction after hearing what his friends/guilds/groupmembers say. In smaller groups is this easy to handle in larger groups this can get into a mess if to many ppl add their opinion to the discussion so there is more and more talking (on vent or chat) while the everybody waits for a call.

What has this to do with the squad leader profession, as ppl from both side have already stated nothing.

What concerns me with multiple or even two squad leader as professins is that they can negate their abilities, can also heavily influence the playability of their groupmates, something the DEVs previously stated was NOT wanted, as this could be abused and now we have these abilties without limitation in the group, easy to reach for any dabbler.

I can live with the squad leader not being the groupleader if ppl think that that opens the squad leader to a larger player base, as long as there is any chain of command between the squad leaders within the group.

So far there is no distinction between different squad leaders besides the fact, that the players behind the keyboard have to do this themself, just as before with or without being the groupleader or even taking the squad leader profession.

What I want is filling "gap of leadership" or the "vacuum in the chain of command" by honoring the one SL who is also has leadership abilities as player, or tries to learn/mimic them in this game with a clear position within the group as the groupleader.

Sylows compromis sounds pretty good so far.

Personally I never had any problems becoming group leader as squad leader, as well as I gladly give away the leader ship to any player who knows what we are doing better than me.

I just want to avoid sylows worst case of "several players with squad leader abilities" overstacking or negating their effects and adding to the confusion with several different commands each claiming, "you have to listen to me" since "I am a squad leader", an attitude we already see very often among the alpha class players (who btw are mostly solo PvPs and dont understand group tactics or mass PvP very well).

The goal or the expactation to an group of squadleaders should be to be most effective when each of them leads a group, rather than to be put into one group to form one uber group.


EDIT:

The dead weigth of beeing a second SL in a group when there are only a few ppl around (as in my case with my guild easily having two MSL around) that is a pretty good argument, but limit it to two and distinguish between who is leading and who is not (very good see sylows compromise), amd distinguishing can be maybe by having the leading SL being the groupleader?

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Message Edited by _scout_ on 09-05-2005 08:40 PM

_scout_'s post sums up what I believe very well.

I'll admit I've been avoiding this issue and every thread containing this issue. I'm not really sure where I stand on it.

Having the ability to have a second SL in the group contribute would be a great bonus, provided there is a way to determine who is the leader and who is the second in command. I've been in the situation where there was 2 SLs in the group a few times. A few months back, I was involved in a Bestine-Anchorhead battle and our numbers were thinning. We finally got to the point where we needed to combine into 1 last group, and command went to the other SL. He is far more experienced then I am at tactics, and he's one of the respected leaders of the Imperials on our server. Would have been nice to have something to contribute besides my rifle, but that was the situation back then. Recently one of my guildmates decided he wanted to be SL 0404 for when I'm not on, and itwould be nice on guild hunts if he could contribute some of his abilities when I'm running the show.

I really don't understand what people are refering to as the b*tchwork of the group leader position, as there really isn't anything to it. Grouploot gets set when the group forms if need be, as for inviting why send someone back to recruit? If you are running a good group, the people with you will be spreading the word via guildchat or some other medium. When a spot opens up, there should already be someone heading to fill it. Don't know about those who complain about being group leader, but I normally have warning of those who are coming to join and typically can pick them up on radar and with /target before they are within 150m, with an /invite soon to follow. Its called situational awareness, not b*tchwork.

Message Edited by Novock on 09-05-2005 09:25 PM

I find KJFett, Sylow, and _Scout_'s points to be the most valid.

[ Group leader not needed for squadleader, allin one group]

Squadleader 1: "Take up offensive formation, we'll flank them from both sides"

Squadleader 2: "You heard the man! TeamBesh on me"

Squadleader 1: "We're gonna need ademolitionist to blow this thing up. Trooper! Find mea commando at base.

Groupleader: "Right away!"

Squadleader 2: "Setup behind that cover"

Squadleader 1: "Concentrate your fire on their gunner emplacements"

Squadleader 2: "It's an ambush! We're taking heavy................"

Trooper 1: "Man down, man down!"

Medic 1: "Medic on their way"

Squadleader 1: "Negative, we need you here. Team Besh, regroup at this location and join Team Aurek."

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Trooper 1: " We lost 2 men in the assault, squadleader down in the first hit...our gunner in the second. I think we're being followed.

Squadleader 1: "Take up defensive positions!"

Groupleader : "I've brought back the commando sir but he seems unstable, talking about setting Ewoks on fire and stuff"