Squad Leader Archive

Thread: The E-Web...A Commando and Squad Leader Joint Effort

boucher6
Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:18 pm
#14
I like it... but then i remember again if were coming up with the idea now and we came up of the idea of fixing squad leader ohh almost a year ago and they just started thinkingabout fixing squad leader... im sure we will be 2 years older before this would ever go live.



ZiekFleid
~ HOUSE OF ELDARIE ~
~ WARMASTER ~
"Who is more foolish?, The Fool? Or The fool who follows."

garvin
Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:57 am
#15

I posted the info below over in the Commando Forum, but I'm curious how doSquad Leaderssee the E-Web operating?This might help further our push to the Devs for this to be considered.


The way I envision it, it's like a Droid or a Vehicle...it sits in our Datapad rather then in our inventory and can't be equiped...Instead it's called out when needed...Once called, it sits stationary and can't be moved (it is a tripod weapon after all, you really can't run around with it)...You then target the thing you want to shoot, and it works similar to a Rocket Launcher in function, but isn't consumable. Think of it almost like a mini-player turret that you can carry around with you to call out when needed...


When grouped with a Squad Leader,therewould be a gain increased accuracy and speed with the E-Web for a Commando...


With all this in mind, I highly doubt that either a SL or a Commando would be running around using it to solo stuff...For Commandos, the Rocket Launcher would probably still be better for us when fighting solo...The E-Web would be best saved for using when attacking another "stationary" target like a turret...or on a battlefield where several SLs and Commandos can line up a series of these weapons and createa line of E-Webs...


Do I have the wrong idea of what an E-Web should be? And am I fooling myself on how it should or would be used? This isn't like getting a new rifle...it's a big gun that, for us to get, must have a purpose to serve that we can show the devs is currently lacking inboth ourprofessions...


Thoughts?




Garvin Lansdowne
Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie
Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith
ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

InquisitorPayne
Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:07 am
#16





garvin wrote:


I posted the info below over in the Commando Forum, but I'm curious how doSquad Leaderssee the E-Web operating?This might help further our push to the Devs for this to be considered.


The way I envision it, it's like a Droid or a Vehicle...it sits in our Datapad rather then in our inventory and can't be equiped...Instead it's called out when needed...Once called, it sits stationary and can't be moved (it is a tripod weapon after all, you really can't run around with it)...You then target the thing you want to shoot, and it works similar to a Rocket Launcher in function, but isn't consumable. Think of it almost like a mini-player turret that you can carry around with you to call out when needed...


When grouped with a Squad Leader,therewould be a gain increased accuracy and speed with the E-Web for a Commando...


With all this in mind, I highly doubt that either a SL or a Commando would be running around using it to solo stuff...For Commandos, the Rocket Launcher would probably still be better for us when fighting solo...The E-Web would be best saved for using when attacking another "stationary" target like a turret...or on a battlefield where several SLs and Commandos can line up a series of these weapons and createa line of E-Webs...


Do I have the wrong idea of what an E-Web should be? And am I fooling myself on how it should or would be used? This isn't like getting a new rifle...it's a big gun that, for us to get, must have a purpose to serve that we can show the devs is currently lacking inboth ourprofessions...


Thoughts?







This is exactly how i would like to see it.


Dogg



P.S.: Just imagine that talk on TS:


"OKay, listen up, fellas! I want that Webbie up this hill in 15. Andcushion it nice and warm on a Bed of Sandbags!"


That would be just a classic!


Message Edited by InquisitorPayne on 04-15-2004 11:10 AM




Dogg M'ordae-Pitibi
General Rebel Badass (Colonel)

SYN - The Leading Force in Rebel PvP


NarCranor
Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:46 pm
#17
Another balancing factor to the destructive power of this weapon, should be set up time. This shouldnt get called out as fast as a pet. There should be a little animation of the commando or SL or both setting the thing up. It took the snowtroopers a few moments to set theirs up, after all. This makes the weapon a bit more cumbersome, so it cant just be whipped out in the middle of an attack without making yourself vulnerable for a short period. This will make people only use it in instances when they plan for combat or are defending an area.



http://www.fandom.swnsu.com
Star Wars Online Fan Comic (Rebel Intelligence Team)
garvin
Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:09 am
#18




NarCranor wrote:
Another balancing factor to the destructive power of this weapon, should be set up time. This shouldnt get called out as fast as a pet. There should be a little animation of the commando or SL or both setting the thing up. It took the snowtroopers a few moments to set theirs up, after all. This makes the weapon a bit more cumbersome, so it cant just be whipped out in the middle of an attack without making yourself vulnerable for a short period. This will make people only use it in instances when they plan for combat or are defending an area.


If the devs don't want to take the time to build the animation, they could add something like they did with the 15 second call out rule for vehicles, pets and droids out in the wild...when a Commando or SL calls out their E-Web, it takes 15 seconds before it appears...if combat starts before that 15 seconds is up, then the call out is cancelled...




Garvin Lansdowne
Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie
Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith
ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

WolfwoodCross
Fri Apr 16, 2004 10:48 pm
#19
k I did some math (yay!) and came up with something. Squad Leader must NOT get any personal skills with the E-Web. Anything they get should be group related ONLY and no personal speed/accuracry boosts. Here is why.



Master Marksman 77 points


Exploration IV and SurvivalIV 43 points (120)


Unarmed IV 29 points (149)


Novice Commando plus Commando Tree for E-Web 20 points (169)


Novice Squad Leader plus Squad Leader Tree for E-Web 20 points (189)



That leaves a hefty amount if you only specialize in one Commando Weapon. Unless Squad Leaders get no PERSONAL bonus to the E-Web, then you have a really big crazy turret weapon that you can plop down anywhere and go to work with.


Best way to implement the E-Web would be to certify Commandos ONLY with it, and then have all of the bonuses be in Squad Leader, but SL doesn't really needthe cert.if he has no personal bonuses to it.

DiLune
Sat Apr 17, 2004 2:08 am
#20

I'll make this point here. I will not support the E-Web if SL don't get its use. The commandos can wait til their own revamp or whatever nebulous time the devs want to add this iconic weapon. If we donate part of our revamp to commandos getting the use of the E-Web it will only be because SL is getting its use as well.


I'm not afraid of someone taking SL and Commando to stack mods because if implemented correctly the gun will require two people to operate well. I'm not talking about crappy passive mods, I'm talking about two people giving up their attacks with personal weapons to crew this thing. The reward for giving up your attacks has to more than compensate for it (the 45% ratio I mention above.) The weapon itself would gate the ability to use it solo.


Hefty coding and not something I would ask SL to support if we got passive mods to bolster another profession that got 98% of the benefit of that portion of the revamp.

irott
Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:52 am
#21
Agreed Dilune....


This was a SL idea first and formost. I would prefer it to be a SL item with mods given by who contols it.

For example if a rifleman who uses it would gain better accuracy, a carbineer would provide an AoE mode, pistoleer would have more speed, commandos would have higher damage.


Now each user would also have their drawbacks such as low accuracy for the pistoleer and commando, low speed for the rifleman, low damage for the carbineer and pistoleer, etc. This would provide a few different tactical situations, plus it wouldnt restrict a this tool to just SL's and Commandos. And in my eyes... a commando would be more effective in the front lines taking out turrets and mines, clearing out the area for the rest of the team.


The E-Web / Heavy Repeater should be a team weapon... not a restriction to just two professions. The qestion is how to balance it and if a persons ranged combat skill mods should play a part. Also something to think about is whether to add a cert to man the gun to the ranged professions, such at novice.


Also another idea that might be good for commandos, is a Mortar. I know its too similar to the rocket launcher but it maybe it could be a way to launch grenades from long distances or something. Or even better yet... make this a team weapon carried by the SL, can be used by anyone on the team with grenades (non commandos can only use c-12 grenades) but commandos get the ability to load it and use their grenades with it. It could provide a longer range (wich would help prevent friendly fire) and maybe better accuracy.


Thoughts?



[irott and the full effect]
Master Squad Leader
"We're all in it together" - Archibald 'Harry' Tuttle
WolfwoodCross
Sat Apr 17, 2004 2:06 pm
#22
Well, I can't see them making the E-Web a truely co-operative weapon (say one guy aims, other guy fires), because that would require Twitch Based control in a Turn-Based system.


The smartest way toimplement this weapon is to make it a Commando only weapon, BUT to make it practically useless unless said Commando is grouped with a Squad Leader. This will be the most logical, balanced, and efficient way of implementation.


Otherwise we create the next uber solo'r.


I'm not trying to shoot down the E-Web, but I just want to bring this to the attention of people who should know. Just don't say I didn't warn you.

Raptor2k1
Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:05 pm
#23



The smartest way toimplement this weapon is to make it a Commando only weapon, BUT to make it practically useless unless said Commando is grouped with a Squad Leader. This will be the most logical, balanced, and efficient way of implementation





From my perspective, that would be one of the worst ways to go about doing it. This would end up benefitting no one, as whenever a SL wasn't around it would be wasted skill-points for the commando, and the SL couldn't use it at all.


Nothing should be useless without another player, which is why I think the original plan is best. With the proposed idea, the weapon benefits both classes equally, and is still useful on its own, with the twist that the two can combine forces to bolster it's effectiveness greatly.


Think of it this way, the SL would be in charge ofspotting targets and monitoring the battlefield, so this is represented by giving them the accuracy and speed mods for the weapon. The commando, on the other hand, is trained specifically for how to use the weapon to it's best efficiency, this being represented by the ability to use a broad variety of specials that can do stuff like cause state changes and increased damage output.


From this, you have it so that the SL alone is accurate and fast, while at a bit of a loss for raw power and state-changing affects, while the commando can pump out greater damage and state changing effects.


Then when the two professions work together they get both of these abilities, making the E-Web function at an extremely efficient level, making it a quite potent utility (as it should be when operated by a trained crew.)


This also helps justify making it a highly damaging weapon, as it would be imbalanced for someone to get the full perks from being able to operate a medium repeating blaster alone; however, by needing two to function optimally, theDPS can (at the very least) be justified as being for two individuals.


In the end, this makes the E-Web a worthwhile tool for both classes, and gives them something that's still very useful even when not working together.



Kyeran Halkyon

Master Gunfighter and Demolitionist of the Old Republic Navy
SWG Commando Forum


irott
Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:54 pm
#24




WolfwoodCross wrote:

Well, I can't see them making the E-Web a truely co-operative weapon (say one guy aims, other guy fires), because that would require Twitch Based control in a Turn-Based system.


The smartest way toimplement this weapon is to make it a Commando only weapon, BUT to make it practically useless unless said Commando is grouped with a Squad Leader. This will be the most logical, balanced, and efficient way of implementation.


Otherwise we create the next uber solo'r.


I'm not trying to shoot down the E-Web, but I just want to bring this to the attention of people who should know. Just don't say I didn't warn you.






I think you misunderstood howthis idea of a"team weapon" would work. The E-Web would NEVER be used by a SL... only carried by them. It would require a group of at least 3 + the SL to set up (keeping in line with movie references) and 3 + the SL would have to be within a certain constricted radius of each other. Once set up it would require one person to man the weapon itself but they would be defenseless, so it would we wise to have another group member defend the gunner. The gunners combat system acts the same way the current one does... they are just no longer mobile. They can target and the weapon autoattacks... no specials. And instead of restricting the gunner to just commandos, a cert could be put in at novice commando/rifleman/pistoleer/carbineer... or maybe Ranged Weapon Support IV though im not sure if that would give CMs a new advantage.




[irott and the full effect]
Master Squad Leader
"We're all in it together" - Archibald 'Harry' Tuttle
PanzerGR
Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:08 pm
#25

as DL said i cant see this implemented if SL's cant utilize it even a little bit


a waste of SP's to just carry it aorund if you ask me






"Honor is a virtue of the truly strong"

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irott
Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:00 pm
#26
I would prefer NOT to be able to use it... I would rather be helping the rest of my team in other areas. The E-Web would be best used as a defense for a tactical position. Such as a blind spot for your bases turrets... or the rise of a hill where your medics drag the incapped to revive them.



[irott and the full effect]
Master Squad Leader
"We're all in it together" - Archibald 'Harry' Tuttle
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