Squad Leader Archive

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Krayt_Dragoon wrote:

/applaud

More power to u Gordon

I would be quite happy idf they never invested any more is Sl than there already is (besides fixing it so our skills work)

The last thing i want to see is a bunch of button-pushing ability-hungry power gamers out there flocking to squad leader there place is a CH or BH. I think a SL should be the most rare type of player. From a Role Playing standpoint not everyone can be a leader. Most cant cut it, and if everyone leades there r no followers. If keepng sla rather gimped profession would keep our numbers small, amd only those who play to have fun and role play in STAR WARS then im all for it. So what if its not an awe inspireing huge damage, awsome screen effect proffession. It shoulent be. The skills of a squad leader are seen through the accomplishments of their group.

Jhen Crestrider of Bloodfin

Ranger/ Pistoleer/ Commissar

BTW: Commissar has to the best title in the game

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I thought we were done with this sort of "Keep me weak so I'm the only one out there" mentality. I mean really, and I'm not trying to flame, I'm really not, but that's a losing attitude. Go play Soccer.

And Breeder really is the best title in the game. I mean, wear that in the cantina.

I am soooo sick of the BS crap line of touchy feely I do it for the group nonsense.

The profession is incomplete, the skills dont work well or as intended, the buffs are broken aside from mobility ( I dont buy into that pistoleer threda nonsense on rangedD), there are no skills at master and novce....and your ultra valuable sysgroup I could duplicate with a tell macro.

Dont come in here and tell us about whining, what the hell do you think you are doing?

You are just doing it on a different subject.

'Nuff Said.

jojos sayed:

The profession is incomplete

This is sotrue!

Jule Toba, Future Master Squadleader, Master Pistoleer

Commisar is the Coolest Title for Squadleaders

Seriously. I never said that all posts should be happy all the time. I also never said our class was fine and didn't need fixing. I said both that complaints and descriptions about our broken class are valuable and I also said that something needs to be done about us.

I went on further to say that I was disgusted with the total lack of anything nice to say to anyone about being a Squad Leader, especially to new people who let us know they have chosen the class and people who come asking for advice or tactics. I said that those kinds of threads weren't the place to holler about how terrible Squad Leader is, and that if someone wants help we should help them and talk to them, not tell them they are dumb for picking SL as a class.

All your complaints are fine and not fiction - I was just tired of people tying to make the most out of SL or who were excited about the class getting nothing but negativity. So, for those of you who have come here espousing as such, you kind of prove my point for me. You are exactly what I want people to not be like.

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Gaebo wrote:

I agree Commisar is by far the best title, and probably also our best ability.....nothing else has people ask what Profession I am every 10 seconds like having that up.

Also searching all the planets and all the creatures for somewhere to use our skills effectivley is what I would call being optomistic.

It took me mastering TKA as well as SL to find a real use for boost morale. eg. (boost all wounds and then med them away.) thats alot of skill points tospend for 1 cool thing.

For the most part if everyone was to post all happy all the time posts, well nothing would change cuz everyones happy. If nothing happy was posted there would be a very quick fix to the various problems...by posting the "awww geee shucks guys stop complaining" posts you dont do anything to help get the problems delt with, and that in itself means your arent helping things.

As I said in an earlier post my timer has started to dumping MSL I dont want to but if my groups arent really being helped by my being there (other than regular leadership) then why bother, I can lead just as effectivly and contribute more if I am knocking everyone down with pets or flaming or something.

In short...negative posts regarding game play are the reality of most players and contribute the most tofixing problems, positive posts although nice to read are not constructive and actually hinder things because now the devs get a mixed view of what skills are liked and disliked (the rare finding of the perfect sequence of events to use a skill is not useful) and thats wrong.

Please think carefully about your posts.

Gae'bo Hublix

Master SL <-----tick tick tick tick

Master TKA

Novice Med & Adv Pistol

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You missed the point of the post. He said complain where you need to complain, and stay silent if someone is offering useful information regarding the profession. SL doesn't work like we want, we all agree on that, if someone finds enjoyment from playing SL, and shares it with the community, there is no reason to use those posts to complain. Start a new post. Join one of the hundreds of threads that are rehashing the same problems.

I disagree with you completely when you say:

"If nothing happy was posted there would be a very quick fix to the various problems...by posting the "awww geee shucks guys stop complaining" posts you dont do anything to help get the problems delt with, and that in itself means your arent helping things."

It doesn't matter how many times the same thing is said about the problems with our class, it will get fixed, or it won't. Giving new information or strategies on using the talents and abilities we have now is more helpful then any amount of reiteration of the same problems.

K'tako

P.S.

Tactician is a pretty cool title.

Well I am an up and coming SL and after reading This Little chat cycle you guy's got going here I only have 1 thing to add to this. The good, The Bad, The ugly, this is still just a game and Game's have problem's, all game's do, It take's time to fix problem's in agame and patince Is in short supply here.

I personaly don't care if SL was the worst proffesion in the game i would still be a SL because "I want to" Not because i need something to moan and groan about. We all can make a choice to Sit around and Just think of way's of whining (Some of the people in this game do) or we can Just go on playing for fun. It's up to you

I agree Commisar is by far the best title, and probably also our best ability.....nothing else has people ask what Profession I am every 10 seconds like having that up.

Also searching all the planets and all the creatures for somewhere to use our skills effectivley is what I would call being optomistic.

It took me mastering TKA as well as SL to find a real use for boost morale. eg. (boost all wounds and then med them away.) thats alot of skill points tospend for 1 cool thing.

For the most part if everyone was to post all happy all the time posts, well nothing would change cuz everyones happy. If nothing happy was posted there would be a very quick fix to the various problems...by posting the "awww geee shucks guys stop complaining" posts you dont do anything to help get the problems delt with, and that in itself means your arent helping things.

As I said in an earlier post my timer has started to dumping MSL I dont want to but if my groups arent really being helped by my being there (other than regular leadership) then why bother, I can lead just as effectivly and contribute more if I am knocking everyone down with pets or flaming or something.

In short...negative posts regarding game play are the reality of most players and contribute the most tofixing problems, positive posts although nice to read are not constructive and actually hinder things because now the devs get a mixed view of what skills are liked and disliked (the rare finding of the perfect sequence of events to use a skill is not useful) and thats wrong.

Please think carefully about your posts.

Gae'bo Hublix

Master SL <-----tick tick tick tick

Master TKA

Novice Med & Adv Pistol

Aye I do agree with what you say and I admit to being a bit grumpy from time to time, but there a few things to take into consideration.

First There is a general feeling of anguish and dissapointment with regards to the squad leader profession and how shafted we are and the facts that we get no attention et al. Im sure they will fix us eventually but like they say a elephant never forgets, and I for one will not be appreciative and thankfull that they sorted it out, I will expect them to fix it like a serious exploit is patched the next day or removed server side. No way i'll thank them for it - Thank You sony for advertising in your sales being able to do X and then when I pay for the game I cant, as you will only give me access to the lower case letters all I can muster is a x!

So you might want to post happy posts, about tips and tricks I suppose it can be viewed that the mood in here is like a funeral - infact the proffession is as dead as the dodo atm so there is that air to it and you are getting the proverbial 'dirty looks' from the the more snooty faction while making jokes about the food at the sandwich table at the afterparty...

The next thing is for me, as Ive been (like so many others here) following the game for a while, and what irritated me most before getting into the beta testing was all the repeat posts and having to sift through all the crap about Jedi shouldnt have perma death or MCS/SCS debate or whatever the flavour of the day was, So I suppose when I see the latest Tips and Tricks for SL's post that ive seen a few fair times before I get a sharp twingeof annoyance and fear as repressed mental abuse is awoken again...*shiver*

There are lots of reasons I suppose my main one for bashing the odd thread is that if the Devs ever bothered to read this forum and if they ever will (highly doubtful) I want them to come in and see an Entire Professions PlayerBase really disapointed with it, and I wish and hope that by having no happy chappy posts just pissed off people that they will pull their fingers out of there rectums and sort the **edit** class out faster. (more wishful thinking but..everyone clutches at straws)

So all I ask isyou take take into consideration the views of the upset people and the grumpy brigade as you are asking us to take into consideration the people on prozac that have there rose tinted glasses superglued to there heads ******** oops sorry nearly went off again heh.

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You are exactly what I want people to not be like.

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When you wake up from your dream of frolicking teddy bears let me know.

As it is now, being a Squad Leader is 90% the person playing it, 10% the abilities granted by the class.

Analyze the class itself compared to other elite classes and what they get in return for their skill points.

-Terrain Negotiation and Burst Run bonuses: Minimally useful since most players do get exploration1. Burst run bonus perhaps is minorly useful since extremely few people actually burst run for anything other than escaping.

That's 14 skill points for bonuses that i'd dare say, help the group 5% of the time. And thats being generous.

-Steady Aim and Volley Fire: Useful abilities that help a group for a round or 2. Sadly, the HAM cost of these 2 abilities does not compensate for the minimal boost it gives the group. Most classes have high accuracy ratings with their weapons, making Steady Aim be only reallyuseful for commandos trying to aim theirweapons from long range...and Volley Fire only directs group to fire their next round at the target, then switch back to their original targets. Volley Fire does not provide a squad leader, or the squad itself for that matter, with any kind of improvement to the squad's force projection (no, not jedi 'force'). For example, if a group is hunting Baz in dathomir, group is together firing at baz while pets tank and one baz pops and rushes a member of the squad... squad leader issues volley fire... all the group's guns turn to that baz, shoot only once with a NORMAL shot (tested with friends having them spam overcharge shot until it scrolled 2 pages up in their combat queue, issued volley fire, the volley they fired was a normal shot not an overcharge), then they switch back to their original target: the baz the pets are tanking, not the baz that, having received a volley of (insert # of group members with guns here) normal shots, is now perhaps 80% life, is happily chewing on your squad member's throat.

Thats 14 skill points for 2 active abilities.. one who'se accuracy increase is not really noticeable (Steady Aim) unless you got an acid rifle wielding,cross-eyed commando with delusions of sniperhood; and another ability that gives the illusion of coordinated fire (Volley Fire). Both together I say these abilities increase a squad's effectiveness in combat vs a squad without a squad leader, by about... another 5%.

Group System Message: We know what it does: puts a text message in people's screen (preferably in some bright color so it's easily seen). This ability is key to the squad leader, as it allows him to have a form of communication above the normal chat window. 100% reliant on the players in the squad itself. Firstoff, people being able to read it! Combat, system message spam and the fast speed in which the groupsys message fades out makes the SL's message be missed in the thick of combat about 40% of times.. second is the group member's willingness to actually follow orders. Nothing but a glorified chat system, the Sysgroup command's effectiveness is completely based on the players. You can achieve the same effect by changing your in-group and in-spatial chat text to be bright pink and typing in caps.. as most people do in other MMPOG's when leading groups.

Thats 6 Skill Points (Novice SL) to get this one ability. I'd say this ability helps the group 90% of the times.

Melee Bonuses, Form Up, Boost Morale: Melee bonuses, as its been tested by others in these forums, are only effective when stacked over the player's existing bonuses. In short, a gun user receiving these bonuses does not benefit, since a creature or melee player will still force him into a dirtnap in the same # of attack rounds. A melee player will receive a boost to his defense, albeit these bonuses are again, minimal for the squad's performance as a squad. Form Up removes dizzy and stunned effects, quite a 'uniquely' situational ability and of minor consequence.. as these effects are almost instantly re-applied to squad members by npc's/mobs and on pvp, stunned has little effect in combat performance and dizzy is only fatal when changing stances... something that is highly unusual in pvp run-around-the-mill combat situations. Boost Morale spreads wounds across the entire group. Of all SL abilities this is perhaps the most useless one. No sane squad leader would bring down the fighting effectiveness of the entire group to bring up the effectiveness of one member. A player with 70% black ham bars should not be brought up to just 30% black ham bars by making the rest of the unwounded squad have 10% black ham bars, making everyone in the group easier to kill.

Thats 14 skill points in for bonuses that do not increase a squad's effectiveness as a squad and2 abilities... 1 which very rarely helps the group function better as a group (Form Up), and the other one actually hurting the group if used. I'd say these skills and bonuses help the squad... 2% of the time.

Ranged Defense Bonuses, Rally and Retreat: Ranged Defense Bonuses stack on top of player's bonuses. This is very useful, as there are many factors which affect ranged weapons accuracy (target's bonuses, distance, weapon modifiers and movement). Unlike melee defenses, a melee user does receive noticeable defense when charging a gun user, getting hit 15% less times, gun users stack this on top of their own defenses, making them be rather hard to hit. Rally increases chances to hit, and unlike its Steady Aim counterpart, does last long enough for it to improve a squad's performance in a noticable manner. This is especially true in long range engagements. Retreat gives the whole group a free burst run while leaving the SL stranded. A situational ability that, while rarely used, does give the whole squad a noticable improvement in its effectiveness as a squad.

Thats 14 skill points to get defense bonuses that benefit the entire squad in a noticable manner, and 2 abilities that do increase a squad's effectiveness in a noticable manner. I'd say this skill tree helps the squad 90% of times (mostly the ranged defense bonus and rally).

Master Squad Leader: Gives +10 burst run and +10 terrain negotiation (both giving the squad no noticable improvement) and +5 ranged and +5 melee defenses (yes, i want fries with that too). For 1 skill point, this box is perhaps worth taking only for the title it grants.

There you have it. My say in the squad leader's issues is this: It does not improve a squad's performance by much and there are no tools to make a squad be a cohesive fighting unit.

Suggestions:

-Make Volley Fire 'put' the following macro into all the squad member's combat queue window:

/clear (clears any queued combat actions player had)

/target squad leader

/assist

/overchargeshot

(this makes the SL actually direct others in squad to switch to a target AND do significant damage to it in first round and then keep at it)

-Rally and Steady Aim overlap in their effect. Make Steady Aim give a 1-round duration 'aim' to group. For example, if target is -40 on accuracy indicator, the player uses his own aim command, becoming -20 ..squad leader uses Steady Aim, making it 0.

-Put all melee and ranged bonuses in 1 skill tree (Tactics). Replace the melee defenses now found in Leadership with other bonuses.. like +25% firing/swing speed (cap at 1.5secs) and +25% group decrease in HAM costs from abilities/attacks OR +50% mind regen rate (making SL the only char that can 'heal' this ham bar..in a manner of speaking).

-Change all terrain bonuses in scout's exploration1 to master scout. As it is now the terrain is a joke to consider during combat since everyone just zips around it in quakish abandon. If terrain neg. is master scout only, the rest of the classes will either have to fight using terrain, or find a squad leader for that bonus. And of course, lower the squad leader's terrain bonuses..

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HomersDonut wrote:

I am soooo sick of the BS crap line of touchy feely I do it for the group nonsense.

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