Squad Leader Archive
Thread: I am disappointed in you.
For many of you, the class of Squad Leader might be an unending source of frustration. For me, the Squad Leader forum is an unending source of disappointment.
I come here everyday and I read everyone complain about how terrible our class is, and how we don't have many (and some of you would say 'any') abilities that work at all or like they should. Fine, I cannot argue with that point. A chronicling of literal, technical problems and descriptions of those problems is acceptable and valuable to us as a community. What I can and will vehemently argue against is what I see lately - when squad leaders try to make the most of their roles and post helpful ideas, tactics discussions, macros, and general knowledge and then get ripped apart by you philistines for trying to be positive.
Seriously, if you hate being a squad leader so much that all you can do is complain over and over again about the same things, then stop being a squad leader.There are those of us that have managed to become very successful leaders despite the problems with the class. There are those of us who have found infinite usefulness and applications for /sysgroup, /steadyaim, and terrain navigation. Some of us have managed to succeed despite the problems with the Squad Leader class and are constantly finding ways to overcome these difficulties.
Being a Squad Leader is a lot like college - you get out of it only what you put into it. Even when all of our abilities work the same will be able to be said for our class as a whole.
Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that there isn't a time and place to make our complaints, wants, and needs known. It is very important that our class receive some attention and that our broken things get fixed. But I am horrified that I have seen people get turned away from the class and role of leader because some button-mashing doesn't work. I am livid that when we try to come together and find good things about our class we are railed against by so many of you in the Squad Leader community. I am saddened that there is so little encouragement for enthusiasm within our ranks. These actions and sentimentsare poison, and I call them as much.
Our class needs and deserves to be looked at long and hard, but the people who play Squad Leaders who shouldn't shy away from taking a long hard look at themselves and really figuring out if the game is defeatingtheir quests to have fun and be good leaders, or if they are doing it to themselves.
Given the amount of skill points invested in SL you shouldn't have to find tricks and workarounds to make yourself useful.
I do agree though that when you do find one its quite valuable. I hadn't considered the Issue of commandos and /steadyaim (I don't know any commandos to group with.) But once again, a skill that has limited use (but some use now.)
Many of us are now quite bitter toward this profession (and this game) due to experiences in the past three or so months (and before for beta testers such as myself.) I see you area pistoleer, like myself. That is a class that was blindly nerfed. Then you have SL, which the Devs are simply blind to. Noules ran some accuracy tests and it apears that the passive defenses may indeed work. However it appears they are non-factors unless you also stack some other major bonuses on them. Once again, looks neat, but in the function quite disappointing. We had a lot of positive energy, in the beginning, and over time it has turned quite negative. Nothing we say is heard. Who wants to speak and not be heard? Its frustrating and demoralizing. SL needs a lot of work before I will become positive about all the points I have invested in it. When you boil it down to its roots, I could give up SL, become a Master Doc and be able to buff and revive the party, still leading as I do. Compared to this, the points I have invested in SL are simply garbage and I will say this over and over til I'm blue in the face.
I'm not giving up SL though. I am sticking with it. Why? I don't play this game much anymore so it isn't worth my time to go elsewhere. Hopefully in the future they fix some classes, fix their combat, fix PvP and this game becomes fun again, like the first few weeks of Beta were for me.
gordon_wood wrote:
For many of you, the class of Squad Leader might be an unending source of frustration. For me, the Squad Leader forum is an unending source of disappointment.
Gordon, I feel simmilarly. I suppose that being new to theworld of MMORPGs, and having not played the beta, I'm still fairly enamoured with this game. I have old friends that I play with, new friends I'vemet, and when they call me "boss" it makes all of the SL problems melt away and I take charge, and we OWN.
I pretty much ONLY read this forum, mostly because I actually appreciate the thoughtfulness of the members and because there is already enough said on all the other forums. Plus, Captain Vemnox is an awesome forum chief and the level or organization makes me proud.However, the snide comments on otherwise positive threads just isn't necessary.
Occamz Zryzor
SL/R/P/CH -Tarquinas-
"Choose optimism. It feels better." -Dalai Llama
Well, I think only showing the title "squad leader" involve a certain resposability, and respect form other players. You have the first medical attention, people cheer for you in your pep talk, players sacrifice themselves to save you, or drag you away from the heat of battle, they come and look for you, because they know, that even if the profession is not working or usefull enough, well, they know are a leader.
Seriously, is there any better title than "field commander"?
KudaarkSomtaaw wrote:Seriously, is there any better title than "field commander"?
Iron Chef, but I'm not going chef just for that =P
Ooh! Our titles sound nice! And we get to use /sysgroup. And golly gee, I just love... well, those titles are great!
Gordan and others, you may be great SLs, but the point of our griping is that your class doesnt really affect how good you are at all. You could be CHs or BHs and still lead a group just as effectively. Perhaps moreso, as you wouldn't have blown 132 skill points on SL requirements and skills.
But hey, then you wouldn't be called a "tactician!" And that really is a cool title!
Jynn Asaeba
"Tactician" does happen to be a cool title, despite your attempt at cynicism.
You entirely miss my point - we aren't trying to find good things to make us forget that our class has serious problems, we're just trying to find good things in general. And I disagree with your statement that you could be one of the requisite classes like Bounty Hunter or Creature Handler and lead a group just as effectively - the manner in which I use the tools available to me makes it so that my Squad Leader abilities are useful but mostly I depend on my brain. If you feel like you've "blown" or "wasted" all those skill points then you're either not using the abilities correctly or not using your brain.
What DiLune said is true, about how you shouldn't have to hunt and peck for ways to make the abilities you have useful, but I'm starting to like that about our class - it obviously presents difficulties that require thoughtfulness to overcome, and that can only improve our playerbase.
Case in point - Ginat Canyon Krayt Dragons have an AOE dizzy attack that they use to knock everyone down and then summarily slay everyone around them. This attack has a 20 meter radius. Commando flamethrower attacks are very useful against Krayts (and a ton of other things" but my commando in our Krayt hunting party kept getting eaten. So, in the end when had a string of killing 5 krayt dragons without any major catastrophies, I used:
-/sysgroup to give orders, send in pets, while allowing my players to concentrate on what they were doing and not make them shift their eyes around their HUD very much
- /steadyaim to ensure my commando's HPBC's and flamethrower attacks hit
- /formup to cure everyone's dizzy and keep them from being slain
- my terrain negotiation allowed other support personel to run up and down mountains, which made life easier in general
Who wouldn't want me in this group? I would totally want me in this group. And I would want any other squad leader who knew what he was doing in this group as well. And to address your point, not only am I a good leader, but the abilities listed above made it far more possible (and easy) to kill krayt dragons, which are pretty hardcore. And I couldn't have done that stuff as a BH or a CH.
And also, I get to be called a "tactician". And that is a really cool title.
Amen, Gordon....
Making lemonade out of lemons!!!!!
no sarcasm intended
Kylekatemikaela
corbantis - Ranger/Rifleman and most importantly SQUAD LEADER
gordon_wood wrote:
"Tactician" does happen to be a cool title, despite your attempt at cynicism.
So, in the end when had a string of killing 5 krayt dragons without any major catastrophies, I used:
-/sysgroup to give orders, send in pets, while allowing my players to concentrate on what they were doing and not make them shift their eyes around their HUD very much
- /steadyaim to ensure my commando's HPBC's and flamethrower attacks hit
- /formup to cure everyone's dizzy and keep them from being slain
- my terrain negotiation allowed other support personel to run up and down mountains, which made life easier in general
Who wouldn't want me in this group? I would totally want me in this group. And I would want any other squad leader who knew what he was doing in this group as well. And to address your point, not only am I a good leader, but the abilities listed above made it far more possible (and easy) to kill krayt dragons, which are pretty hardcore. And I couldn't have done that stuff as a BH or a CH.
And also, I get to be called a "tactician". And that is a really cool title.
I thought my attempts at cynicism were pretty darn successful. Other people may not have found it amusing, but hey, I was still cynical.
- /sysgroup can be mildly effective, but not much more than allcaps groupchat. Looking at the HUD is not strain for a veteran player- most are always scanning it as is.
- /steadyaim does not "ensure" a hit. It increases the chances, yes, but far from ensures it. 9 times out of 10 its not worth the mind. If you have commandos, yes.
- Likewise, if you can consistenly /formup without blowing your own brains out, please, oh Master Tactician, share the knowledge of how. I succeed 1 time in 3 when using that skill. And if I've been using steadaim or rally, I'm not going to have enough mind for that. Formup is a lucky bonus, not a reliable strategy.
- I'm sure all your non-scouts appreciate the running bonus. Hooray! Go Squad Leader!
Look, I'm not saying most people wouldn't want you in the group. Someone would have to really detest your leadership style to NOT want a running bonus or the slight chance that rally would work. It doesnt actually cost them anything having you there. I wouldn't mind your presence, and as a SL, most people I know like to have me lead. But if there were 21 combat-oreintedpeople going out to kill krayts, and all of them were masters of their chosen profession, you'd be among the first to go. I'd MUCH rather have another bull rancor going at the krayts, or a doctor running around resucitatng, or rifleman plugging away from more than 20m, than a bunch of spam and the chance that 1 in three times I'd not be dizzy anymore.
Heck, people want me in there group, despite what you imply about my leadership skills.
The point is that if you like puzzles, you should play Myst. Using SL effectively shouldn't be a matter of looking for specific situations where the abilities do a darn thing (i.e. steadyaim is useless, but if you have multiple commandos, /formup is useless, but if you fight huge mobs with AOE dizzy attacks, retreat is useless, but if you find some god awful pigeonholed use for retreat... etc. etc.) And no matter how cool the title is, the only in game effect it really has is marking you as a target in PVP (assuming, of course, that the enemy doesnt realize how useless your SL abilitiesare) and tricking players ignorant of the SL plight into assuming your class will have a major effect.
Some of us aren't optimists. Pessimists exist, Happy Jones. And if you post happy, lovely little thoughts while the devs continue to ignore us, we may just be bitter.
And if that makes you disappointed in us... well... I can live with that.
Jynn Asaeba.
Surdanis wrote:
what about "tactician"? I like that. think Zhuge Liang, the most brilliant "tactcian" of his day--and "strategist."
Surdanis, you're too kind.. 
Thank you for pointing out that my buddy Zhuge Liang is recognized as a great tactician. But really.. he's just my crafting dummy.. I'm the squad leader... 
/applaud
More power to u Gordon
I would be quite happy idf they never invested any more is Sl than there already is (besides fixing it so our skills work)
The last thing i want to see is a bunch of button-pushing ability-hungry power gamers out there flocking to squad leader there place is a CH or BH. I think a SL should be the most rare type of player. From a Role Playing standpoint not everyone can be a leader. Most cant cut it, and if everyone leades there r no followers. If keepng sla rather gimped profession would keep our numbers small, amd only those who play to have fun and role play in STAR WARS then im all for it. So what if its not an awe inspireing huge damage, awsome screen effect proffession. It shoulent be. The skills of a squad leader are seen through the accomplishments of their group.
Jhen Crestrider of Bloodfin
Ranger/ Pistoleer/ Commissar
BTW: Commissar has to the best title in the game