Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Fort Discussion (forget the other threads)
Therascalking3
Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:31 am
#14
Yog-Soth wrote:
LOL again bunkers , sniper towers are defensive structures.
Shouting , doesn't stop bullets no. Giving commands on wot to do keeps them safer, not safe.
Second all your doing is flaming me
So get your foot off my nutz, and take a step back.
yog i would appreciated if you didnt reduce yourself to that level of talking for both of our sakes. I am not trying to provoke you in a flame i simply disagree with many of your ideas and am responding to them with the way i see things.
and despite the fact that a sniper tower or a bunker defends it also allows a soldier to get a better offensive position boosting their offensive ability
Therascalking3
Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:48 am
#15
yeah that all makes sense in a FPS but not in a MMORPG. Also the only thing that will actually stop you from getting hit in the FPS is a wall or structure and thats what you take cover from.
Even if a structure is not moving it can still be offensive. I think that a soldier running to a fort and manning a stationary machine gun is boosting his offensive capability and i think you would have to agree.
You think DoD is a goal-oriented big time strategy type of game that you are getting this experience from. Try directing troops in BF1942 or JointOps. And a sniper's offensive capability is one hundred percent dependent on line of sight. Heshoots what he sees. The more he sees the more he shoots. Anda bunker provides flexibility because you can take different angles of fire because you are well covered for defense.
I dont understand how you continue to argue these points over and over even when you have real soldiers telling you that you are wrong about your statements. If you are going for the real life feel of an SL then listen to the soldiers not what you think DoD brings to the table. And if you are going for the game feel then you would support forts anyway so i dont know what you are trying to accomplish but it seems futile.
Yog-Soth
Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:56 am
#16
OMG read the disclaimer !!! It was an example of the simulation to how a SL gives passive benefits.
Second i say im the president..
So therefore i must be the president
"squadLeader" is not an actuall M.O.S. it's a consigned authority position. They don't send your arse to A-school (advanced schooling after bootcamp) to be a SquadLeader
Therascalking3
Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:01 am
#17
Yog-Soth wrote:
OMG read the disclaimer !!! It was an example of the simulation to how a SL gives passive benefits.
Second i say im the president..
So therefore i must be the president
"squadLeader" is not an actuall M.O.S. it's a consigned authority position. They don't send your arse to A-school (advanced schooling after bootcamp) to be a SquadLeader
youve done the same thing to me Yog so dont scream oh my god. On top of that you were providing a RL simulation which seems to be where you base all of your opinions about our profession so it is important that i respond to that.
No matter what it is called or what type of position it is you have heard from many RL soldiers that you dont even have the right RL idea of what an SL does. So if you are entirely wrong about all your statements and your supposedly factually supported statements are missing their factual support why are you even talking anymore.
Yog-Soth
Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:02 am
#18
Also in response to your sniper theory
First thing they teach you in forward observer/sniper school is to teach you how to make a Ghille Suite. Now seriously wot good is a GHille suite when your at the top of a pole so everyone can see you ? You really think sniping is about seeing a target ? Sorry youir wrong... LOS is 2'nd in importance to A) reaching said target and B) disengaging the area. you'll notice i said disengageing the AREA. Because a sniper in Dropzone isn't watching for line of sight , or a nice tall peak to be ontop of. He's looking for how to get in and out without him or his "spotter" being seen.
anyways it's lunch time , and your talking about things you obviously only seen on TV
Therascalking3
Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:15 am
#19
Yog-Soth wrote:
Also in response to your sniper theory
First thing they teach you in forward observer/sniper school is to teach you how to make a Ghille Suite. Now seriously wot good is a GHille suite when your at the top of a pole so everyone can see you ? You really think sniping is about seeing a target ? Sorry youir wrong... LOS is 2'nd in importance to A) reaching said target and B) disengaging the area. you'll notice i said disengageing the AREA.So it is 2nd in importance to 2 things? i am seeing a failure in logic here.Because a sniper in Dropzone isn't watching for line of sight , or a nice tall peak to be ontop of. He's looking for how to get in and out without him or his "spotter" being seen.
anyways it's lunch time , and your talking about things you obviously only seen on TV
Ok yog since you seem to know what you are talking about why dont you answer me a question.
How does a sniper kill a target?
oh wait im so dumb i can answer that question. I mean obviously if he is a sniper he gets dropped into a hot zone and kills every soldier there with ninja stars and by pulling his brain out through his nose with a pair of chicken tongs. I cant believe i forgot that man im dumb. [/sarcasm off]
P.S. just to let you know a sniper tower wasnt part of my fort plan and a sniper tower isnt a pole that you balance on top of or something.
Yog-Soth
Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:01 am
#20
I'm glad you asked
because firing a rifle, is actually secondary to wot snipers do. Main job for sniper is recon; Many sniper missions don't even involve them firing their gun. For instance as we speak there a just about 200 sniper teams in deployment throughout the U.S. and in south America. There can't be that many people to kill , so wot are they doing ? Well they're watching Coca plantations and various other drug manufacturing compounds.
Example
After Ft.Bragg's sniper school comes a return trip to San Diego, CA. I say return cause if your a marine you went there for A-school, now your back for sniper training; Along with enhanced Desert survival training comes the observation training. Many were deployed to watch Meth production sites in rural areas. No seizing , no arrests , no engagements. Simply learning the art of concealed observation.
Now back to your scheduled SquadLeader discussion
Therascalking3
Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:42 am
#21
so in effect a sniper is simply a scout with a cooler sounding name. Hmm i somehow feel that is a really insulting comment you just made.
If you want to use your whole dictionary definition method of insulting you should probably see that the definition of a sniper is the marksman based one not a scout. Sure they have to observe. Picking the right time to fire.
Therascalking3
Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:04 pm
#22
the only reason why they wouldnt is that it would be some work and they dont seem to like that much. Truthfully the idea has been well liked by the great population of SLs and the rest of the SWG community. The only people i talked to who didnt like the idea were the few couple of people who recently popped up in these forums.
Everyone else i have talked to or heard from on the forums or in game loved the idea and hopes that it gets implemented. Thats why i stressed the fact so much that im not pushing my own agenda.
Yog-Soth
Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:09 am
#23
uhmm... the above is actual real life experience.
I believe the U.S. army uses the designation forward observer/sniper
Marine Corp. goes by Sniper/scout
and yes oberservation is the number one job, it's not derogatory it's actuallity
The first U.S. sniper school was enacted by Carlos Hatchcock ( most decorated sniper) during Vietnam. Previous to this sniper training was handed down from soldier to soldier as the U.S. army didn't think a Consistant sniper academy was needed. Vietnam changed this mode of thinking, when the Chinese were constantly sending TRAINED snipers into north Korea during the Korean War, and during Vietnam. When Hathcock was "decomissioned" ( saved 13 men from an M111 transport as it burned after an RPG attack; 3rd degree burns on 80% of his body and thus recieved the congressional MOH) he championed the idea of a sniper school.
So anyways i digress , it doesn't matter wot you think
Engaging an enemy target is only during War-time , they have several other functions throughout the service.
Therascalking3
Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:16 am
#24
well obviously they have other abilities and they only fire when it is their order but they have specific soldiers trained in recon and they arent necessarily trained in the use of equipment like sniper rifles.
Also if you believe that stating a bunch of useless facts that anyone could look up will somehow change my opinion of you or the hyprocrisy of some of the things you said you are mistaken.
So in your mind does this all mean that riflemen with the title sniper should need to be master scouts or just have exploration 4 and maybe surveying to build their camo observation posts.
Yog-Soth
Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:19 am
#25
Look you dragged me into this discussion about snipers. I have not been hypocritical.
Therascalking3
Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:21 am
#26
no your statements about the direction of SL and the incorporation of RL things have been hypocritical. either way the sniper conversation is pretty useless