Squad Leader Archive

Thread: Squad Leader Revamp Ver. 3.0 (grrr)

WolfwoodCross
Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:58 pm
#1

Ok, you've GOT to like this one.




  • Removed Faction pet bonuses


  • Removed Covert Faction Scanner (it's to exploitable)


  • Added Ability - Emergency Extraction to Master SL


  • Added Ability - Orbital Map to Strategy 1


  • Added 5 waypoint limit to Group Waypoint


  • Added 3 target limit to Mark Target




Novice Squad Leader



  • System Message to Group
  • Schematic - Command Post

    • Offers all of the amenities of a Basic Camp Kit
    • Allparty members can, upon Clone Request Activation, can request to clone at the Command Post instead. Cloning in this way will not generate wounds.
    • This camp can be destroyed by other players. Combat willNOT automatically disband the camp.
    • This camp can only be placed once every 30 minutes.
    • All Squad Leader abilities and Passive bonuses are 50% more effective when the Squad Leader is in the Command Post

  • "Field Presence" +32m radius. Party Members must be within this range to gain Squad Leader Bonuses.
  • Party Members in range gain +5 to General Ranged Aiming and +1 to Alertness
  • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation
  • Ability - "At Ease" - Party Members in range will regenerate HAM 10% faster when this ability is used. This lasts until a character is fully healed. This ability cannot be used in combat and is cancelled when a character takes damage.

Mobility



  • Mobility 1

    • Ability - "Group Waypoint" - All party members receive a waypoint arrow on their compass/screen. A SL may use different colors to help party members differentiate between Waypoints. A Squad Leader may only set up to 5 Group Waypoints.
    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

  • Mobility 2

    • Ability - "Retreat!" - Each Party Member in range gain a one time buff that allows them to use Burst Run for twice as long at the normal cost.
    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

  • Mobility 3

    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

  • Mobility 4

    • Certification - "Personnel Transport" - This new vehicle, crafted by Master Artisan, can hold up to 20 Party Members. It has enough HAM and defense to take a decent beating while transporting troops to the scene of battle, and moves at about the same speed of a X34 Landspeeder.
    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

Tactics



  • Tactics 1

    • Ability - "Mark Target" - Designate a target as top priority in combat. All party will see a symbol over the designated target. A SL may mark up to 3 targets, and use colors to signify priority.
    • Party Members in range gain +5 to General Ranged Aiming

  • Tactics 2

    • Ability - "Steady Aim" - The next attack of all party members in range is at +10 accuracy
    • Party Members in range gain +5 to General Ranged Aiming

  • Tactics 3

    • Ability - "Volley Fire [Health/Action/Mind]" - An ability that overrides the parties current combat queue. The party immediately fires, in sync, at the "Marked Target." The Squad Leader can designate which HAM bar the party targets. This ability has a refresh time of 10 minutes.
    • Party Members in range gain +5 to General Ranged Aiming

  • Tactics 4

    • Party Members in range gain +5 to General Ranged Aiming (+25 to General Ranged Aiming total)

Strategy



  • Strategy 1

    • Ability - "Orbital Map" - An overlay on-screen map that a Squad Leader can use to set Group Waypoints and Marked Targets for party members to use.

    • Party Members in range gain +1 to Alertness, +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense

  • Strategy 2

    • Ability - "Be on your Guard" - A buff that adds +10% to Alertness and gives +10% to Melee and Ranged Defense to all party members in range. This ability lasts until a character is attacked, or initiates combat. It cannot be used while in Combat.

    • Party Members in range gain +1 to Alertness, +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense

  • Strategy 3

    • Ability - "Form Up!"
    • Party Members in range gain +1 to Alertness, +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense

  • Strategy 4

    • Ability - "Stand your ground!" - This buff increases the party's Dodge, Block, and Counterattack mods, as well as increasing the party's Point Blank efficiency. The duration of the buff is 30 seconds. This ability can be used every 5 minutes.

    • Party Members in range gain +1 to Alertness, +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense (+5 to Alertness total)

Leadership



  • Leadership 1

    • +8m to Field Presence radius
    • "Volley Fire" -1 minute refresh time
    • "Stand your groud!" +30 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration

  • Leadership 2


    • +8m to Field Presence radius
    • "Volley Fire" -1 minute refresh time
    • "Stand your groud!" +30 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration

  • Leadership 3


    • +8m to Field Presence radius
    • "Volley Fire" -1 minute refresh time
    • "Stand your groud!" +30 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration

  • Leadership 4


    • +8m to Field Presence radius (64m radius total)
    • "Volley Fire" -1 minute refresh time
    • "Stand your groud!" +30 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy (+50 Accuracy total)
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration (+50% regeneration total)

Master Squad Leader



  • "Volley Fire" -1 minute refresh time (5 minute refresh time total)
  • "Stand your ground!" +30 second refresh time (3 minute duration total)
  • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation (+60 to Group Terrain Negotiation total)
  • Party Members inrange gain +10 to Melee Defense, and +10 to Ranged Defense (+30 to Melee and Ranged Defense total)
  • Ability - "Emergency Extraction" - A Master Squad Leader can call a Shuttle to drop in and evac a Party in need of retreat. This ability takes 30 seconds to activate, but combat will not cancel it. This will drop the party at a pre-designated Shuttleport. This ability can only be used once an hour.
  • A Master Squad Leader can grant Overt status to a Covert Party Member. This is preceded by a 30 second TEF. This ability is only available while Overt and while in a Command Post. This can only be used on one person at at time.
  • Certification - Special Faction Unit - This is a Faction Pet that is able to be purchased ONLY by a Master Squad Leader. The Squad Leader must be a Colonel to purchase this Faction Pet.

    • Imperial - Royal Imperial Stormtrooper - Deals Blast Damage and has a To-Hit Bonus vs. Turrets
    • Rebel - Saboteur - A Bothan with the ability to confuse an enemyturret into "friendly fire" for a short period of time.


And no, I will not remove that last bit in the Master Squad Leader box. And yes it is ONLY for factional players. It will help with their GCW niche. Neutral players be damned.


WolfwoodCross
Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:09 pm
#2
Please add -


  • Certification - E-Web

- to Novice Squad Leader, and add the respective bonuses to the Tactics tree.


InquisitorPayne
Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:18 pm
#3


sorry for the double post. Stupid forum cookies....

Message Edited by InquisitorPayne on 04-13-2004 06:43 PM




Dogg M'ordae-Pitibi
General Rebel Badass (Colonel)

SYN - The Leading Force in Rebel PvP


InquisitorPayne
Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:43 pm
#4



It is getting better every time




WolfwoodCross wrote:



Novice Squad Leader



  • System Message to Group
  • Schematic - Command Post

    • Offers all of the amenities of a Basic Camp Kit
    • Allparty members can, upon Clone Request Activation, can request to clone at the Command Post instead. Cloning in this way will not generate wounds.
    • This camp can be destroyed by other players. Combat willNOT automatically disband the camp.
    • This camp can only be placed once every 30 minutes.
    • All Squad Leader abilities and Passive bonuses are 50% more effective when the Squad Leader is in the Command Post

  • "Field Presence" +32m radius. Party Members must be within this range to gain Squad Leader Bonuses.
  • Party Members in range gain +5 to General Ranged Aiming and +1 to Alertness

Alertness only works against Surprise Shot. Surprise shot is pratically unuseable in PvP and pretty much a waste of time in PvE (read: worthless). Thus an alertness bonus serves no real purpose and is a simple waste of space.


Almost the same with general ranged aiming. How often do you see people use /aim? General ranged aiming only works with the /aim command. I see no real purpose for adding it to squad leader, but please correect me if i am mistaken.



  • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation
  • Ability - "At Ease" - Party Members in range will regenerate HAM 10% faster when this ability is used. This lasts until a character is fully healed. This ability cannot be used in combat and is cancelled when a character takes damage.

Mobility



  • Mobility 1

    • Ability - "Group Waypoint" - All party members receive a waypoint arrow on their compass/screen. A SL may use different colors to help party members differentiate between Waypoints. A Squad Leader may only set up to 5 Group Waypoints.
    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

  • Mobility 2

    • Ability - "Retreat!" - Each Party Member in range gain a one time buff that allows them to use Burst Run for twice as long at the normal cost.

    I would like to see retreat stay in game as it is. It is too valuable a tool to give it up. A lowerance of HAM costs would be nice to see too, but iam happy with it as it is as well, as long as it stays that way, and i mean exactly that way (including range)



    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

  • Mobility 3

    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

  • Mobility 4

    • Certification - "Personnel Transport" - This new vehicle, crafted by Master Artisan, can hold up to 20 Party Members. It has enough HAM and defense to take a decent beating while transporting troops to the scene of battle, and moves at about the same speed of a X34 Landspeeder.

    I see a coding Nightmare right there. While it would be undoubtly cool to see an APC in SWG, it would be too much of a recurring nightmare to code and i do not even want to think about the amount of bugs it will still have after going live.



    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

Tactics



  • Tactics 1

    • Ability - "Mark Target" - Designate a target as top priority in combat. All party will see a symbol over the designated target. A SL may mark up to 3 targets, and use colors to signify priority.
    • Party Members in range gain +5 to General Ranged Aiming

Again i see no reason for general ranged aiming. And it continues througout this tree. Please tel me why you want general ranged aiming...



  • Tactics 2

    • Ability - "Steady Aim" - The next attack of all party members in range is at +10 accuracy

    On the next attack only? Why should i as a SL waste a complete action for an acuracy bonus for my team that lasts only for the next shot? Why do you think almost noone uses steady aim right now? They could just aim then they would lose a single action, but they would get about 60-120 more accuracy. depending on profession). It will need an increas eto at least +30 to start being feasinble at all and it needs to hold for a longer time, at least 5 seconds, more preferrably 30. Otherwise this command is simply useless. It will not be used. If it will not be used, why even add it?





    • Party Members in range gain +5 to General Ranged Aiming

  • Tactics 3

    • Ability - "Volley Fire [Health/Action/Mind]" - An ability that overrides the parties current combat queue. The party immediately fires, in sync, at the "Marked Target." The Squad Leader can designate which HAM bar the party targets. This ability has a refresh time of 10 minutes.

    Better than the current one, but still below par. All it needs to do, to fullfill the specifications is to switch the target of every group member to the designated target, clear their combat queue and keep them on that target, so that they can use their specials on it, with having to select it again manually. Also, don't use that timer. It should be a freely usable action.



    • Party Members in range gain +5 to General Ranged Aiming

  • Tactics 4

    • Party Members in range gain +5 to General Ranged Aiming (+25 to General Ranged Aiming total)

Strategy



  • Strategy 1

    • Ability - "Orbital Map" - An overlay on-screen map that a Squad Leader can use to set Group Waypoints and Marked Targets for party members to use.

    • Party Members in range gain +1 to Alertness, +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense

Again alertness. Alertness is useless in PvP and the chance that an NPC uses Surprise shot against you is so low it is not even valid to consider a counter for it. Again: if noone needs it, don't add it.



  • Strategy 2

    • Ability - "Be on your Guard" - A buff that adds +10% to Alertness and gives +10% to Melee and Ranged Defense to all party members in range. This ability lasts until a character is attacked, or initiates combat. It cannot be used while in Combat.

    • Party Members in range gain +1 to Alertness, +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense

  • Strategy 3

    • Ability - "Form Up!"
    • Party Members in range gain +1 to Alertness, +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense

  • Strategy 4

    • Ability - "Stand your ground!" - This buff increases the party's Dodge, Block, and Counterattack mods, as well as increasing the party's Point Blank efficiency. The duration of the buff is 30 seconds. This ability can be used every 5 minutes.

    Do not add these timers. They make the skills pretty much useless. A SL should not only have to boost his troops prior to combat, then relying on his Combat profession abilities throughout the rest of the battle. Give the ability a reasonable delay, like 5 seconds and it's use will be limited already. The boost is nice, but not THAT powerful, so there is no need for a timer.



    • Party Members in range gain +1 to Alertness, +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense (+5 to Alertness total)

Leadership



  • Leadership 1


    • +8m to Field Presence radius
    • "Volley Fire" -1 minute refresh time
    • "Stand your groud!" +30 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration

  • Leadership 2


    • +8m to Field Presence radius
    • "Volley Fire" -1 minute refresh time
    • "Stand your groud!" +30 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration

  • Leadership 3


    • +8m to Field Presence radius
    • "Volley Fire" -1 minute refresh time
    • "Stand your groud!" +30 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration

  • Leadership 4


    • +8m to Field Presence radius (64m radius total)

That is simply too low. If i need to coordinate a larger group, i will hvae to spread them out farther than 64m to each side of me (CMs, to say the very least, but not only...). You should increase it to a distance where i can still see them in my group Bar. Once they driop out of that group bar (out of range message), they no longer get the bonuses (lost contact).




    • "Volley Fire" -1 minute refresh time
    • "Stand your groud!" +30 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy (+50 Accuracy total)
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration (+50% regeneration total)

Master Squad Leader



  • "Volley Fire" -1 minute refresh time (5 minute refresh time total)

Again, volley fire must not have a refresh time.



  • "Stand your ground!" +30 second refresh time (3 minute duration total)
  • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation (+60 to Group Terrain Negotiation total)
  • Party Members inrange gain +10 to Melee Defense, and +10 to Ranged Defense (+30 to Melee and Ranged Defense total)
  • Ability - "Emergency Extraction" - A Master Squad Leader can call a Shuttle to drop in and evac a Party in need of retreat. This ability takes 30 seconds to activate, but combat will not cancel it. This will drop the party at a pre-designated Shuttleport. This ability can only be used once an hour.

Increase the wait-time to 3 mins and reduce the timer to 30 mins. Make it possible to select the target designation coordinates (to allow for a dropoff of your troops)



  • A Master Squad Leader can grant Overt status to a Covert Party Member. This is preceded by a 30 second TEF. This ability is only available while Overt and while in a Command Post. This can only be used on one person at at time.
  • Certification - Special Faction Unit - This is a Faction Pet that is able to be purchased ONLY by a Master Squad Leader. The Squad Leader must be a Colonel to purchase this Faction Pet.

    • Imperial - Royal Imperial Stormtrooper - Deals Blast Damage and has a To-Hit Bonus vs. Turrets
    • Rebel - Saboteur - A Bothan with the ability to confuse an enemyturret into "friendly fire" for a short period of time.

Well, i am stillopposed to this idea, but no need to start an argument again. You know why...



Things you still need to add:


/boostMorale with balancing damage instead of wounds (i want that in), with a 30 second timer or a wound cost associated with it.


certification for the E-Web and corrsponding accuracy and Speed modifiers (group modifiers, so they can be transferred to the commando in the group.


But all in all a nice piece of work. I just think that in some cases you did not know why you put some things in....






This is how it would look with my changes:



Novice Squad Leader



  • System Message to Group
  • Schematic - Command Post


    • Offers all of the amenities of a Basic Camp Kit
    • Allparty members can, upon Clone Request Activation, can request to clone at the Command Post instead. Cloning in this way will not generate wounds.
    • This camp can be destroyed by other players. Combat willNOT automatically disband the camp.
    • This camp can only be placed once every 30 minutes.
    • All Squad Leader abilities and Passive bonuses are 50% more effective when the Squad Leader is in the Command PostParty

  • Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

  • Ability - "At Ease" - Party Members in range will regenerate HAM 10% faster when this ability is used. This lasts until a character is fully healed. This ability cannot be used in combat and is cancelled when a character takes damage.

  • certification: E-Web

  • +10 Group E-Web Accuracy

  • +10 Group E-Web Speed

Mobility



  • Mobility 1

    • Ability - "Group Waypoint" - All party members receive a waypoint arrow on their compass/screen. A SL may use different colors to help party members differentiate between Waypoints. A Squad Leader may only set up to 5 Group Waypoints.
    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

    • +10 Group E-Web Accuracy

    • +10 Group E-Web Speed

  • Mobility 2

    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

    • +10 Group E-Web Accuracy

    • +10 Group E-Web Speed

  • Mobility 3

    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

    • +10 Group E-Web Accuracy

    • +10 Group E-Web Speed

    • Ability - "/Retreat!"

  • Mobility 4

    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

    • +10 Group E-Web Accuracy

    • +10 Group E-Web Speed

Tactics



  • Tactics 1

    • Ability - "Mark Target" - Designate a target as top priority in combat. All party will see a symbol over the designated target. A SL may mark up to 3 targets, and use colors to signify priority.

  • Tactics 2


    • Ability - "Steady Aim" - The next attacks of all party membersfor a duration of 30 secondsis at +10 accuracy

  • Tactics 3


    • Ability - "Volley Fire " - An ability that overrides the parties current combat queue. The party selects the "Marked Target." They will not chnge their target afterwards for reasons other than manual selection of a different target.

  • Tactics 4


    • "/boostMorale" Ability. (works just like prior, with the only difference of balancing damage rather than wounds). This ability has a re-use timer of 30 seconds.

Strategy



  • Strategy 1

    • Ability - "Orbital Map" - An overlay on-screen map that a Squad Leader can use to set Group Waypoints and Marked Targets for party members to use.
    • Party Members in range gain +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense

  • Strategy 2

    • Ability - "Be on your Guard" - A buff that adds +10% to Melee and Ranged Defense to all party members in range. This ability lasts until a character is attacked, or initiates combat. It cannot be used while in Combat.
    • Party Members in range gain +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense

  • Strategy 3

    • Ability - "Form Up!"
    • Party Members in range gain +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense

  • Strategy 4


    • Ability - "Stand your ground!" - This buff increases the party's Dodge, Block, and Counterattack mods, as well as increasing the party's Point Blank efficiency. The duration of the buff is 10 seconds.
    • Party Members in range gain +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense

Leadership



  • Leadership 1

    • "Stand your groud!" +10 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration

  • Leadership 2

    • "Stand your groud!" +10 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration

  • Leadership 3


    • "Stand your groud!" +10 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration

  • Leadership 4

    • "Stand your groud!" +10 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy (+50 Accuracy total)
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration (+50% regeneration total)

Master Squad Leader



  • "Stand your ground!" +10 second refresh time (1 minute duration total)
  • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation (+60 to Group Terrain Negotiation total)
  • Party Members inrange gain +10 to Melee Defense, and +10 to Ranged Defense (+30 to Melee and Ranged Defense total)
  • Ability - "Dropship xxxx yyyy" - A Master Squad Leader can call a Shuttle to drop in and evac a Party in need of retreat. This ability takes 3 minutes to come into effect and has a10 second delay, but combat will not cancel it. This will drop the party atthe designated coordinates. This ability can only be used once evey 30 minutes.
  • A Master Squad Leader can grant Overt status to a Covert Party Member. This is preceded by a 30 second TEF. This ability is only available while Overt and while in a Command Post. This can only be used on one person at at time.
  • +20 Group E-Web Accuracy

  • +20 Group E-Web Speed

Now, this is how i would like it.



On the E-Web


All specials for the E-Web would be in the Commando Tree. This will make the SL a huge benefit to the commando using this weapon (since in my idea, the Commando would have almost no accuracy and speed bonuses to the E-Web, maybe +30 on both. But the commando would have a certification for it.


Thus an E-Web could only be used to it's peak efficiency with both, a commando and a squad leader.


Dogg






Dogg M'ordae-Pitibi
General Rebel Badass (Colonel)

SYN - The Leading Force in Rebel PvP


irott
Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:46 pm
#5




InquisitorPayne wrote:




Ability - "Stand your ground!" - This buff increases the party's Dodge, Block, and Counterattack mods, as well as increasing the party's Point Blank efficiency. The duration of the buff is 10 seconds.







I'm glad you brought that up... I kept forgeting to post my "group center of being" proposal. I like what you added with the bonus to the point blank mods.



[irott and the full effect]
Master Squad Leader
"We're all in it together" - Archibald 'Harry' Tuttle
InquisitorPayne
Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:58 pm
#6




irott wrote:




InquisitorPayne wrote:




Ability - "Stand your ground!" - This buff increases the party's Dodge, Block, and Counterattack mods, as well as increasing the party's Point Blank efficiency. The duration of the buff is 10 seconds.







I'm glad you brought that up... I kept forgeting to post my "group center of being" proposal. I like what you added with the bonus to the point blank mods.






That was wolf's idea, not mine, i just adjusted the numbers.


Give credit, where credit is due.


Dogg





Dogg M'ordae-Pitibi
General Rebel Badass (Colonel)

SYN - The Leading Force in Rebel PvP


irott
Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:06 pm
#7
Well actualy it was my idea... I just hadn't posted it yet. LOL


I have been playing a brawler recently and I noticed the benefits of /centerofbeing. This coupled along with a passive level 1 mitigation would make a group lead by a SL a force to be reckoned with.



[irott and the full effect]
Master Squad Leader
"We're all in it together" - Archibald 'Harry' Tuttle
WolfwoodCross
Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:11 pm
#8




InquisitorPayne wrote:




It is getting better every time




WolfwoodCross wrote:



Novice Squad Leader



  • System Message to Group
  • Schematic - Command Post

    • Offers all of the amenities of a Basic Camp Kit
    • Allparty members can, upon Clone Request Activation, can request to clone at the Command Post instead. Cloning in this way will not generate wounds.
    • This camp can be destroyed by other players. Combat willNOT automatically disband the camp.
    • This camp can only be placed once every 30 minutes.
    • All Squad Leader abilities and Passive bonuses are 50% more effective when the Squad Leader is in the Command Post

  • "Field Presence" +32m radius. Party Members must be within this range to gain Squad Leader Bonuses.
  • Party Members in range gain +5 to General Ranged Aiming and +1 to Alertness

Alertness only works against Surprise Shot. Surprise shot is pratically unuseable in PvP and pretty much a waste of time in PvE (read: worthless). Thus an alertness bonus serves no real purpose and is a simple waste of space.


Almost the same with general ranged aiming. How often do you see people use /aim? General ranged aiming only works with the /aim command. I see no real purpose for adding it to squad leader, but please correect me if i am mistaken.


Ok, so alertness and General Ranged Aiming be damned. Actually, I was under the impression that GRA affected Accuracy, kind of like a Blanket Accuracy Mod for all Ranged weapons >< doh! I was also trying to include some shadow of the Ranged Support tree, but on a Group level. Oh well I see your point and agree.



  • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation
  • Ability - "At Ease" - Party Members in range will regenerate HAM 10% faster when this ability is used. This lasts until a character is fully healed. This ability cannot be used in combat and is cancelled when a character takes damage.

Mobility



  • Mobility 1

    • Ability - "Group Waypoint" - All party members receive a waypoint arrow on their compass/screen. A SL may use different colors to help party members differentiate between Waypoints. A Squad Leader may only set up to 5 Group Waypoints.
    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

  • Mobility 2

    • Ability - "Retreat!" - Each Party Member in range gain a one time buff that allows them to use Burst Run for twice as long at the normal cost.

    I would like to see retreat stay in game as it is. It is too valuable a tool to give it up. A lowerance of HAM costs would be nice to see too, but iam happy with it as it is as well, as long as it stays that way, and i mean exactly that way (including range)



  • Bah you win again!




    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

  • Mobility 3

    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

  • Mobility 4

    • Certification - "Personnel Transport" - This new vehicle, crafted by Master Artisan, can hold up to 20 Party Members. It has enough HAM and defense to take a decent beating while transporting troops to the scene of battle, and moves at about the same speed of a X34 Landspeeder.

    I see a coding Nightmare right there. While it would be undoubtly cool to see an APC in SWG, it would be too much of a recurring nightmare to code and i do not even want to think about the amount of bugs it will still have after going live.



  • Not a programmer myself so never really think in terms of Coding. I'd love to see this over a "Dropship" ability myself if it can be done (think mobile Structure Devs!) but ifit can't be done then I say move the Dropship ability from Master SL here, but leave the Extraction ability in Master SL. Extraction is a more vital tool than delivery and therefore should require a higher "level" IMHO



    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

Tactics



  • Tactics 1

    • Ability - "Mark Target" - Designate a target as top priority in combat. All party will see a symbol over the designated target. A SL may mark up to 3 targets, and use colors to signify priority.
    • Party Members in range gain +5 to General Ranged Aiming

Again i see no reason for general ranged aiming. And it continues througout this tree. Please tel me why you want general ranged aiming...


Keep rubbing it in...



  • Tactics 2

    • Ability - "Steady Aim" - The next attack of all party members in range is at +10 accuracy

    On the next attack only? Why should i as a SL waste a complete action for an acuracy bonus for my team that lasts only for the next shot? Why do you think almost noone uses steady aim right now? They could just aim then they would lose a single action, but they would get about 60-120 more accuracy. depending on profession). It will need an increas eto at least +30 to start being feasinble at all and it needs to hold for a longer time, at least 5 seconds, more preferrably 30. Otherwise this command is simply useless. It will not be used. If it will not be used, why even add it?



  • Because it's not meant to be great at first. A SL can burn through the Tactics tree and learn all of the abilities, but needs the Leadership tree to get good at it. Just cause you know how to do something doesn't mean you are great at it. Also, for higher "level" SL's it will be much more useful when used in conjuction with "Volley Fire"





    • Party Members in range gain +5 to General Ranged Aiming

  • Tactics 3

    • Ability - "Volley Fire [Health/Action/Mind]" - An ability that overrides the parties current combat queue. The party immediately fires, in sync, at the "Marked Target." The Squad Leader can designate which HAM bar the party targets. This ability has a refresh time of 10 minutes.

    Better than the current one, but still below par. All it needs to do, to fullfill the specifications is to switch the target of every group member to the designated target, clear their combat queue and keep them on that target, so that they can use their specials on it, with having to select it again manually. Also, don't use that timer. It should be a freely usable action.



  • Well, I can't say I agree with the "Auto-Switch Target" function. No matter how much Squad Leaders may lead groups, they should never start forcing tactics onto other players. If a party member is in combat with a player, and is forced to switch targets against his will, now he'll have to go through the bother of switching back to defend himself once more.



  • And as for the timer, your version does not need it. However, my version, which has all in-range party members fire DIRECTLY at a targets specified HAM pool needs it to thwart spamming. The timer also lowers through the Leadership Tree, so it gets better as the SL gets better. Timers are actually a great way for balancing abilities in a MMO, since time is a valuable commodity in these games. It forces players to be more strategic, and not just use run-and-gun "zerg" tactics. And Strategy is afterall what this prof. is all about.



  • Then again, I also await the day when Armor works as intended and Buffs are a thing of the past.I'm a romantic.



    • Party Members in range gain +5 to General Ranged Aiming

  • Tactics 4

    • Party Members in range gain +5 to General Ranged Aiming (+25 to General Ranged Aiming total)

Strategy



  • Strategy 1

    • Ability - "Orbital Map" - An overlay on-screen map that a Squad Leader can use to set Group Waypoints and Marked Targets for party members to use.

    • Party Members in range gain +1 to Alertness, +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense

Again alertness. Alertness is useless in PvP and the chance that an NPC uses Surprise shot against you is so low it is not even valid to consider a counter for it. Again: if noone needs it, don't add it.



  • Strategy 2

    • Ability - "Be on your Guard" - A buff that adds +10% to Alertness and gives +10% to Melee and Ranged Defense to all party members in range. This ability lasts until a character is attacked, or initiates combat. It cannot be used while in Combat.

    • Party Members in range gain +1 to Alertness, +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense

  • Strategy 3

    • Ability - "Form Up!"
    • Party Members in range gain +1 to Alertness, +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense

  • Strategy 4

    • Ability - "Stand your ground!" - This buff increases the party's Dodge, Block, and Counterattack mods, as well as increasing the party's Point Blank efficiency. The duration of the buff is 30 seconds. This ability can be used every 5 minutes.

    Do not add these timers. They make the skills pretty much useless. A SL should not only have to boost his troops prior to combat, then relying on his Combat profession abilities throughout the rest of the battle. Give the ability a reasonable delay, like 5 seconds and it's use will be limited already. The boost is nice, but not THAT powerful, so there is no need for a timer.



  • This ability gets better through the Leadersip tree. And once again timers area great strategic tool. If the delay is 5 seconds that there is nothing stopping a SL from just keeping this ability up ALL of the time. There has to be SOMEnegative tothe use of abilities. Otherwise we get the current spamming mentality that is so prevalent throught the game.



    • Party Members in range gain +1 to Alertness, +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense (+5 to Alertness total)

Leadership



  • Leadership 1


    • +8m to Field Presence radius
    • "Volley Fire" -1 minute refresh time
    • "Stand your groud!" +30 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration

  • Leadership 2


    • +8m to Field Presence radius
    • "Volley Fire" -1 minute refresh time
    • "Stand your groud!" +30 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration

  • Leadership 3


    • +8m to Field Presence radius
    • "Volley Fire" -1 minute refresh time
    • "Stand your groud!" +30 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration

  • Leadership 4


    • +8m to Field Presence radius (64m radius total)

That is simply too low. If i need to coordinate a larger group, i will hvae to spread them out farther than 64m to each side of me (CMs, to say the very least, but not only...). You should increase it to a distance where i can still see them in my group Bar. Once they driop out of that group bar (out of range message), they no longer get the bonuses (lost contact).


I disagree, though this may come from a RP standpoint. If you are barking orders to a group they should at least be in earshot. That's just my take on it. 64m is the typical max firing range of most weapons, so that is why I made it cap on 64. You can buff out to 64m, your party members can shoot for another 64 beyond that.


"Volley Fire" -1 minute refresh time




    • "Stand your groud!" +30 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy (+50 Accuracy total)
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration (+50% regeneration total)

Master Squad Leader



  • "Volley Fire" -1 minute refresh time (5 minute refresh time total)

Again, volley fire must not have a refresh time.


Your version shouldn't. Mine should.



  • "Stand your ground!" +30 second refresh time (3 minute duration total)
  • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation (+60 to Group Terrain Negotiation total)
  • Party Members inrange gain +10 to Melee Defense, and +10 to Ranged Defense (+30 to Melee and Ranged Defense total)
  • Ability - "Emergency Extraction" - A Master Squad Leader can call a Shuttle to drop in and evac a Party in need of retreat. This ability takes 30 seconds to activate, but combat will not cancel it. This will drop the party at a pre-designated Shuttleport. This ability can only be used once an hour.

Increase the wait-time to 3 mins and reduce the timer to 30 mins. Make it possible to select the target designation coordinates (to allow for a dropoff of your troops)



  • A Master Squad Leader can grant Overt status to a Covert Party Member. This is preceded by a 30 second TEF. This ability is only available while Overt and while in a Command Post. This can only be used on one person at at time.
  • Certification - Special Faction Unit - This is a Faction Pet that is able to be purchased ONLY by a Master Squad Leader. The Squad Leader must be a Colonel to purchase this Faction Pet.

    • Imperial - Royal Imperial Stormtrooper - Deals Blast Damage and has a To-Hit Bonus vs. Turrets
    • Rebel - Saboteur - A Bothan with the ability to confuse an enemyturret into "friendly fire" for a short period of time.

Well, i am stillopposed to this idea, but no need to start an argument again. You know why...


Yeah I understand that no one Profession must have anything geared towards Factioning. But if that is the case then I should get rid of the ability to make other players Overt, and Squad Leaders shouldn't be required for taking down bases.



Things you still need to add:


/boostMorale with balancing damage instead of wounds (i want that in), with a 30 second timer or a wound cost associated with it.


I like what this ability does. I just can't imagine how a Squad Leader is able to do it. He makes you happy so suddenly the cut on your arm goes to your forehead? I honestly believe this is an ability better suited to doctors than to Squad Leaders. It just makes mroe sense that way.


certification for the E-Web and corrsponding accuracy and Speed modifiers (group modifiers, so they can be transferred to the commando in the group.


Learn to read my replies mutha fugga! j/k


But all in all a nice piece of work. I just think that in some cases you did not know why you put some things in....


Only in regards to GRA and alertness =P. However, everything else I am fully aware of why i did them, and stand by why I did them, though I am apparently becoming a sucker for compromise...






This is how it would look with my changes:



Novice Squad Leader



  • System Message to Group
  • Schematic - Command Post


    • Offers all of the amenities of a Basic Camp Kit
    • Allparty members can, upon Clone Request Activation, can request to clone at the Command Post instead. Cloning in this way will not generate wounds.
    • This camp can be destroyed by other players. Combat willNOT automatically disband the camp.
    • This camp can only be placed once every 30 minutes.
    • All Squad Leader abilities and Passive bonuses are 50% more effective when the Squad Leader is in the Command PostParty

  • Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

  • Ability - "At Ease" - Party Members in range will regenerate HAM 10% faster when this ability is used. This lasts until a character is fully healed. This ability cannot be used in combat and is cancelled when a character takes damage.

  • certification: E-Web

  • +10 Group E-Web Accuracy

  • +10 Group E-Web Speed

Mobility



  • Mobility 1

    • Ability - "Group Waypoint" - All party members receive a waypoint arrow on their compass/screen. A SL may use different colors to help party members differentiate between Waypoints. A Squad Leader may only set up to 5 Group Waypoints.
    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

    • +10 Group E-Web Accuracy

    • +10 Group E-Web Speed

  • Mobility 2

    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

    • +10 Group E-Web Accuracy

    • +10 Group E-Web Speed

  • Mobility 3

    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

    • +10 Group E-Web Accuracy

    • +10 Group E-Web Speed

    • Ability - "/Retreat!"

  • Mobility 4

    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

    • +10 Group E-Web Accuracy

    • +10 Group E-Web Speed

Tactics



  • Tactics 1

    • Ability - "Mark Target" - Designate a target as top priority in combat. All party will see a symbol over the designated target. A SL may mark up to 3 targets, and use colors to signify priority.

  • Tactics 2


    • Ability - "Steady Aim" - The next attacks of all party membersfor a duration of 30 secondsis at +10 accuracy

  • Tactics 3


    • Ability - "Volley Fire " - An ability that overrides the parties current combat queue. The party selects the "Marked Target." They will not chnge their target afterwards for reasons other than manual selection of a different target.

  • Tactics 4


    • "/boostMorale" Ability. (works just like prior, with the only difference of balancing damage rather than wounds). This ability has a re-use timer of 30 seconds.

Strategy



  • Strategy 1

    • Ability - "Orbital Map" - An overlay on-screen map that a Squad Leader can use to set Group Waypoints and Marked Targets for party members to use.
    • Party Members in range gain +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense

  • Strategy 2

    • Ability - "Be on your Guard" - A buff that adds +10% to Melee and Ranged Defense to all party members in range. This ability lasts until a character is attacked, or initiates combat. It cannot be used while in Combat.
    • Party Members in range gain +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense

  • Strategy 3

    • Ability - "Form Up!"
    • Party Members in range gain +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense

  • Strategy 4


    • Ability - "Stand your ground!" - This buff increases the party's Dodge, Block, and Counterattack mods, as well as increasing the party's Point Blank efficiency. The duration of the buff is 10 seconds.
    • Party Members in range gain +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense

Leadership



  • Leadership 1

    • "Stand your groud!" +10 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration

  • Leadership 2

    • "Stand your groud!" +10 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration

  • Leadership 3


    • "Stand your groud!" +10 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration

  • Leadership 4

    • "Stand your groud!" +10 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy (+50 Accuracy total)
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration (+50% regeneration total)

Master Squad Leader



  • "Stand your ground!" +10 second refresh time (1 minute duration total)
  • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation (+60 to Group Terrain Negotiation total)
  • Party Members inrange gain +10 to Melee Defense, and +10 to Ranged Defense (+30 to Melee and Ranged Defense total)
  • Ability - "Dropship xxxx yyyy" - A Master Squad Leader can call a Shuttle to drop in and evac a Party in need of retreat. This ability takes 3 minutes to come into effect and has a10 second delay, but combat will not cancel it. This will drop the party atthe designated coordinates. This ability can only be used once evey 30 minutes.
  • A Master Squad Leader can grant Overt status to a Covert Party Member. This is preceded by a 30 second TEF. This ability is only available while Overt and while in a Command Post. This can only be used on one person at at time.
  • +20 Group E-Web Accuracy

  • +20 Group E-Web Speed

Now, this is how i would like it.



On the E-Web


All specials for the E-Web would be in the Commando Tree. This will make the SL a huge benefit to the commando using this weapon (since in my idea, the Commando would have almost no accuracy and speed bonuses to the E-Web, maybe +30 on both. But the commando would have a certification for it.


Thus an E-Web could only be used to it's peak efficiency with both, a commando and a squad leader.


Dogg








InquisitorPayne
Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:14 am
#9





WolfwoodCross wrote:






  • Not a programmer myself so never really think in terms of Coding. I'd love to see this over a "Dropship" ability myself if it can be done (think mobile Structure Devs!) but ifit can't be done then I say move the Dropship ability from Master SL here, but leave the Extraction ability in Master SL. Extraction is a more vital tool than delivery and therefore should require a higher "level" IMHO



  • The "Dropship" ability handles both, extraction and insertion, that is why i did put it into master in my re-edit of your proposal.









  • Because it's not meant to be great at first. A SL can burn through the Tactics tree and learn all of the abilities, but needs the Leadership tree to get good at it. Just cause you know how to do something doesn't mean you are great at it. Also, for higher "level" SL's it will be much more useful when used in conjuction with "Volley Fire"



  • My querry is not with the actual modifier (i have seen that it increases through the leadership tree) but with the duration. If it is just a one-time boost, it is a waste of time to use it. There is a god reason why steady aim is not used these days.







  • Well, I can't say I agree with the "Auto-Switch Target" function. No matter how much Squad Leaders may lead groups, they should never start forcing tactics onto other players. If a party member is in combat with a player, and is forced to switch targets against his will, now he'll have to go through the bother of switching back to defend himself once more.



  • Well, we are coming from two sides here. I am coming from a "Guild" side, you are coming from an "independant" side. I would need such a skill to ease the coordination of fire. reaction time is crucial. If i can cut the reaction time of my whole squad, it is a benefit. I would tell them to kill that target anyway. The only difference is wether they have to target themmanualy first (wich can take up to 4 seconds) or wether they are able to instantly follow that order. Proper and efficient use of such a skill would differentiate the good SL from the bad SL.



  • And as for the timer, your version does not need it. However, my version, which has all in-range party members fire DIRECTLY at a targets specified HAM pool needs it to thwart spamming. The timer also lowers through the Leadership Tree, so it gets better as the SL gets better. Timers are actually a great way for balancing abilities in a MMO, since time is a valuable commodity in these games. It forces players to be more strategic, and not just use run-and-gun "zerg" tactics. And Strategy is afterall what this prof. is all about.



  • IN all honesty, while your skill may be nice, it is pretty much uselss for standard battlefield scenarios. If i start to cal ut targets, i needs them gone asap. I do not have time to jusggle around with "fun" specials, i have to get rid of that target. This is only doable, if the whole squad utilizes their full potential (read: their own specials) on the target.



  • Then again, I also await the day when Armor works as intended and Buffs are a thing of the past.I'm a romantic.



  • Well, i hear ya, when it come to armor. The rest is oky, just armor is too much of an annoyance right now. Do i use it? Yes. Do i think it is way overpowered? Yes.






    • This ability gets better through the Leadersip tree. And once again timers area great strategic tool. If the delay is 5 seconds that there is nothing stopping a SL from just keeping this ability up ALL of the time. There has to be SOMEnegative tothe use of abilities. Otherwise we get the current spamming mentality that is so prevalent throught the game.

It is not about spamming. It is about keeping those effects active. I do not want SL to be a profession that is able to fuction only once every so and so minutes, i want them to be able to utilize their full potential at every time. The tides of Batle change fast and you eed to be able to adapt to them. Combat is fast and it is vicious. My problem is that i bring RL knowledge to SWG, wich is a bad thing, but i weant to be able to function throughout the whole battle.


Spamming of a single special can be prevented, if all specials at your dispoasl are equally efficient, so that it depends just on the situation what to use. Forcing an artificial delay on specials is not the answer.





Yeah I understand that no one Profession must have anything geared towards Factioning. But if that is the case then I should get rid of the ability to make other players Overt, and Squad Leaders shouldn't be required for taking down bases.


Personally i had no problem to remove the "turn overt" option. I just could not see a way to abuse it in your proposal, thus i left it in. And SLs needed for faction bases is a Faction base specific, not a SL specific. Faction pets on the Other hand (along with turnig overt) would be a SL specific though, thus they must not be in, or you would force a player to sign up for a faction to use all of his Profession abilities.





Things you still need to add:


/boostMorale with balancing damage instead of wounds (i want that in), with a 30 second timer or a wound cost associated with it.


I like what this ability does. I just can't imagine how a Squad Leader is able to do it. He makes you happy so suddenly the cut on your arm goes to your forehead? I honestly believe this is an ability better suited to doctors than to Squad Leaders. It just makes mroe sense that way.


Not everything has to be logical. This is a game after all. But if you need a comparison to RL:


By boosting the morale of their subordinates, leaders are ablt to let theri subordinates forget their injuries. Adrenaline, Noradrenaline and endorphines eradicate the sense of pain, allowing them to function again.





But all in all a nice piece of work. I just think that in some cases you did not know why you put some things in....


Only in regards to GRA and alertness =P. However, everything else I am fully aware of why i did them, and stand by why I did them, though I am apparently becoming a sucker for compromise...






This is how it would look with my changes:



Novice Squad Leader



  • System Message to Group
  • Schematic - Command Post


    • Offers all of the amenities of a Basic Camp Kit
    • Allparty members can, upon Clone Request Activation, can request to clone at the Command Post instead. Cloning in this way will not generate wounds.
    • This camp can be destroyed by other players. Combat willNOT automatically disband the camp.
    • This camp can only be placed once every 30 minutes.
    • All Squad Leader abilities and Passive bonuses are 50% more effective when the Squad Leader is in the Command PostParty

  • Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

  • Ability - "At Ease" - Party Members in range will regenerate HAM 10% faster when this ability is used. This lasts until a character is fully healed. This ability cannot be used in combat and is cancelled when a character takes damage.

  • certification: E-Web

  • +10 Group E-Web Accuracy

  • +10 Group E-Web Speed

Mobility



  • Mobility 1

    • Ability - "Group Waypoint" - All party members receive a waypoint arrow on their compass/screen. A SL may use different colors to help party members differentiate between Waypoints. A Squad Leader may only set up to 5 Group Waypoints.
    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

    • +10 Group E-Web Accuracy

    • +10 Group E-Web Speed

  • Mobility 2

    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

    • +10 Group E-Web Accuracy

    • +10 Group E-Web Speed

  • Mobility 3

    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

    • +10 Group E-Web Accuracy

    • +10 Group E-Web Speed

    • Ability - "/Retreat!"

  • Mobility 4

    • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation

    • +10 Group E-Web Accuracy

    • +10 Group E-Web Speed

Tactics



  • Tactics 1

    • Ability - "Mark Target" - Designate a target as top priority in combat. All party will see a symbol over the designated target. A SL may mark up to 3 targets, and use colors to signify priority.

  • Tactics 2


    • Ability - "Steady Aim" - The next attacks of all party membersfor a duration of 30 secondsis at +10 accuracy

  • Tactics 3


    • Ability - "Volley Fire " - An ability that overrides the parties current combat queue. The party selects the "Marked Target." They will not chnge their target afterwards for reasons other than manual selection of a different target.

  • Tactics 4


    • "/boostMorale" Ability. (works just like prior, with the only difference of balancing damage rather than wounds). This ability has a re-use timer of 30 seconds.

Strategy



  • Strategy 1

    • Ability - "Orbital Map" - An overlay on-screen map that a Squad Leader can use to set Group Waypoints and Marked Targets for party members to use.
    • Party Members in range gain +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense

  • Strategy 2

    • Ability - "Be on your Guard" - A buff that adds +10% to Melee and Ranged Defense to all party members in range. This ability lasts until a character is attacked, or initiates combat. It cannot be used while in Combat.
    • Party Members in range gain +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense

  • Strategy 3

    • Ability - "Form Up!"
    • Party Members in range gain +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense

  • Strategy 4


    • Ability - "Stand your ground!" - This buff increases the party's Dodge, Block, and Counterattack mods, as well as increasing the party's Point Blank efficiency. The duration of the buff is 10 seconds.
    • Party Members in range gain +5 to Melee Defense, and +5 to Ranged Defense

Leadership



  • Leadership 1

    • "Stand your groud!" +10 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration

  • Leadership 2

    • "Stand your groud!" +10 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration

  • Leadership 3


    • "Stand your groud!" +10 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration

  • Leadership 4

    • "Stand your groud!" +10 second duration
    • "Steady Aim" +10 Accuracy (+50 Accuracy total)
    • "At Ease" +10% HAM regeneration (+50% regeneration total)

Master Squad Leader



  • "Stand your ground!" +10 second refresh time (1 minute duration total)
  • Party Members in range gain +10 to Group Terrain Negotiation (+60 to Group Terrain Negotiation total)
  • Party Members inrange gain +10 to Melee Defense, and +10 to Ranged Defense (+30 to Melee and Ranged Defense total)
  • Ability - "Dropship xxxx yyyy" - A Master Squad Leader can call a Shuttle to drop in and evac a Party in need of retreat. This ability takes 3 minutes to come into effect and has a10 second delay, but combat will not cancel it. This will drop the party atthe designated coordinates. This ability can only be used once evey 30 minutes.
  • +20 Group E-Web Accuracy

  • +20 Group E-Web Speed

Now, this is how i would like it.



On the E-Web


All specials for the E-Web would be in the Commando Tree. This will make the SL a huge benefit to the commando using this weapon (since in my idea, the Commando would have almost no accuracy and speed bonuses to the E-Web, maybe +30 on both. But the commando would have a certification for it.


Thus an E-Web could only be used to it's peak efficiency with both, a commando and a squad leader.


Dogg
















Dogg M'ordae-Pitibi
General Rebel Badass (Colonel)

SYN - The Leading Force in Rebel PvP


WolfwoodCross
Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:44 am
#10




InquisitorPayne wrote:






WolfwoodCross wrote:






  • Not a programmer myself so never really think in terms of Coding. I'd love to see this over a "Dropship" ability myself if it can be done (think mobile Structure Devs!) but ifit can't be done then I say move the Dropship ability from Master SL here, but leave the Extraction ability in Master SL. Extraction is a more vital tool than delivery and therefore should require a higher "level" IMHO



  • The "Dropship" ability handles both, extraction and insertion, that is why i did put it into master in my re-edit of your proposal.










  • Because it's not meant to be great at first. A SL can burn through the Tactics tree and learn all of the abilities, but needs the Leadership tree to get good at it. Just cause you know how to do something doesn't mean you are great at it. Also, for higher "level" SL's it will be much more useful when used in conjuction with "Volley Fire"



  • My querry is not with the actual modifier (i have seen that it increases through the leadership tree) but with the duration. If it is just a one-time boost, it is a waste of time to use it. There is a god reason why steady aim is not used these days.







  • Well, I can't say I agree with the "Auto-Switch Target" function. No matter how much Squad Leaders may lead groups, they should never start forcing tactics onto other players. If a party member is in combat with a player, and is forced to switch targets against his will, now he'll have to go through the bother of switching back to defend himself once more.



  • Well, we are coming from two sides here. I am coming from a "Guild" side, you are coming from an "independant" side. I would need such a skill to ease the coordination of fire. reaction time is crucial. If i can cut the reaction time of my whole squad, it is a benefit. I would tell them to kill that target anyway. The only difference is wether they have to target themmanualy first (wich can take up to 4 seconds) or wether they are able to instantly follow that order. Proper and efficient use of such a skill would differentiate the good SL from the bad SL.



  • And as for the timer, your version does not need it. However, my version, which has all in-range party members fire DIRECTLY at a targets specified HAM pool needs it to thwart spamming. The timer also lowers through the Leadership Tree, so it gets better as the SL gets better. Timers are actually a great way for balancing abilities in a MMO, since time is a valuable commodity in these games. It forces players to be more strategic, and not just use run-and-gun "zerg" tactics. And Strategy is afterall what this prof. is all about.



  • IN all honesty, while your skill may be nice, it is pretty much uselss for standard battlefield scenarios. If i start to cal ut targets, i needs them gone asap. I do not have time to jusggle around with "fun" specials, i have to get rid of that target. This is only doable, if the whole squad utilizes their full potential (read: their own specials) on the target.



  • Calling out targets in my proposal is left to the "Mark Target" ability. Squad Leaders must think ahead of time and learn to size up targets to use that ability efficiently. When I think of "Volley Fire," I think of a commander shouting "FIRE!" and all of sudden a huge volley of blaster bolts shoots at the intended target. However, a battle is not a Squad Leaders alone, and while you are calling the shots,as it were, there are multiple little battles being waged as well. So while your ability may be efficient, to me at any rate it is not practical. Control needs to be left in the hands of the players. Squad Leader is all about coordination, not direct control.



  • Then again, I also await the day when Armor works as intended and Buffs are a thing of the past.I'm a romantic.



  • Well, i hear ya, when it come to armor. The rest is oky, just armor is too much of an annoyance right now. Do i use it? Yes. Do i think it is way overpowered? Yes.






    • This ability gets better through the Leadersip tree. And once again timers area great strategic tool. If the delay is 5 seconds that there is nothing stopping a SL from just keeping this ability up ALL of the time. There has to be SOMEnegative tothe use of abilities. Otherwise we get the current spamming mentality that is so prevalent throught the game.

It is not about spamming. It is about keeping those effects active. I do not want SL to be a profession that is able to fuction only once every so and so minutes, i want them to be able to utilize their full potential at every time. The tides of Batle change fast and you eed to be able to adapt to them. Combat is fast and it is vicious. My problem is that i bring RL knowledge to SWG, wich is a bad thing, but i weant to be able to function throughout the whole battle.


Spamming of a single special can be prevented, if all specials at your dispoasl are equally efficient, so that it depends just on the situation what to use. Forcing an artificial delay on specials is not the answer.


If we must "keep thoseeffects active" then what is the point of having an ability? They become more of passive abilities if we keep them up ALL of the time. Timers give abilities the "Now or Later" drawback that make them that much more strategic and useful. From last we heard of the Combat Balance, this was actually the way DEV's were going anyway, so I'm just keeping it in line with that, though my own experiences with other MMO games tells me that timers are a good negative to the use of abilities, because without a negative drawback to the use of an ability, there is no need for an ability. It seems artificial delays really ARE the answer after all





Yeah I understand that no one Profession must have anything geared towards Factioning. But if that is the case then I should get rid of the ability to make other players Overt, and Squad Leaders shouldn't be required for taking down bases.


Personally i had no problem to remove the "turn overt" option. I just could not see a way to abuse it in your proposal, thus i left it in. And SLs needed for faction bases is a Faction base specific, not a SL specific. Faction pets on the Other hand (along with turnig overt) would be a SL specific though, thus they must not be in, or you would force a player to sign up for a faction to use all of his Profession abilities.



Just because the ability isn't listed in the Skill Box means it's ok to give them factional abilities, just on the DL? Ok then, make those Faction Pets of mine available to Colonel Squad Leaders, but make no mention of it in the Skill Box. Viola, balance.






Things you still need to add:


/boostMorale with balancing damage instead of wounds (i want that in), with a 30 second timer or a wound cost associated with it.


I like what this ability does. I just can't imagine how a Squad Leader is able to do it. He makes you happy so suddenly the cut on your arm goes to your forehead? I honestly believe this is an ability better suited to doctors than to Squad Leaders. It just makes mroe sense that way.


Not everything has to be logical. This is a game after all. But if you need a comparison to RL:


By boosting the morale of their subordinates, leaders are ablt to let theri subordinates forget their injuries. Adrenaline, Noradrenaline and endorphines eradicate the sense of pain, allowing them to function again.



By all of our argume... discussions by now I would have thought that at least we were both on the same wavelength when it came to logic. Everything SHOULD be logical, it helps add to the feel of, i dare say it, immersion. Losing logic in a game system that requires a certain amount of belief in the system, and then yoinking away that logic, takes away that solid floor that was telling you "Hey I'm playing Star Wars," and gives back the feeling of playing a generic game where move A has effect B. A move like that given to Squad Leaders simply doesn't make sense. Giving it to Doctors, who deal with wounds and healing and treatment, would make sense. And in regards to Mind treatment, in the near future it will either not count towards incapacitation, or be more readily healable, though I'm hoping for the former myself.


They way the move is now, it sounds more like it should be under the "Get on your feet, Maggots!" move of FormUp! Boosting morale should increase combat effectiveness, not eradicate fatigue (wounds/damage in this case).










InquisitorPayne
Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:14 pm
#11




WolfwoodCross wrote:




InquisitorPayne wrote:






WolfwoodCross wrote:






  • Calling out targets in my proposal is left to the "Mark Target" ability. Squad Leaders must think ahead of time and learn to size up targets to use that ability efficiently. When I think of "Volley Fire," I think of a commander shouting "FIRE!" and all of sudden a huge volley of blaster bolts shoots at the intended target. However, a battle is not a Squad Leaders alone, and while you are calling the shots,as it were, there are multiple little battles being waged as well. So while your ability may be efficient, to me at any rate it is not practical. Control needs to be left in the hands of the players. Squad Leader is all about coordination, not direct control.



  • I can just speak from personal experience. And me and my Guild would like to see it work exactly that way. It simply reduces the reaction time. Sometimes opponents shuttle in and you need to react quickly, before they get a chance to form up. Thus i need an ability to immideately relay the target. No one would be mad about it, as a matter of fact, they would appreciate it.






  • If we must "keep thoseeffects active" then what is the point of having an ability? They become more of passive abilities if we keep them up ALL of the time.

It would mean we have to actively do something to make it work. THAT is the difference between passive skills. I am stronlgy opposed to artificial Timers if not absolutely nescessary.




  • Timers give abilities the "Now or Later" drawback that make them that much more strategic and useful.

But those skills are meant to be tactical, not strategic.. That is the difference.









Just because the ability isn't listed in the Skill Box means it's ok to give them factional abilities, just on the DL?


Where did i say that?


Ok then, make those Faction Pets of mine available to Colonel Squad Leaders, but make no mention of it in the Skill Box. Viola, balance.


Why colonel Squad leaders? Why not Colonels? They have the same influence in the military. The one is just a better leader than the other, but from an administrative view, they are equal.









By all of our argume... discussions by now I would have thought that at least we were both on the same wavelength when it came to logic. Everything SHOULD be logical, it helps add to the feel of, i dare say it, immersion.


In that case:


Remove StimPacks. You cannot instantly heal tissue damage by injecting some fluid.


Remove Buffs. You cannot endure more damage by just listening to music or getting chemicals injected.


Remove Slices. Why should a Smuggler know more about weapons than the person that builds them?


Remove Area and Mind Heals. You cannot cure the wounds of a person you do not attend to.


Why can a person survive after getting hit repeatedly by a mutliple-ton creature?


Why can people run after i shot their leg?


This game is not fully logical. So, why should Squad leader abilities be fully logical?


Losing logic in a game system that requires a certain amount of belief in the system, and then yoinking away that logic, takes away that solid floor that was telling you "Hey I'm playing Star Wars," and gives back the feeling of playing a generic game where move A has effect B. A move like that given to Squad Leaders simply doesn't make sense. Giving it to Doctors, who deal with wounds and healing and treatment, would make sense. And in regards to Mind treatment, in the near future it will either not count towards incapacitation, or be more readily healable, though I'm hoping for the former myself.


But it is already in the game. And Squad leaders do have it. And the Devs said it shuld balance damage not wounds (the wound balancing is a bug).


It is not like i want a completely new ability here, i just want an old ability debugged.


They way the move is now, it sounds more like it should be under the "Get on your feet, Maggots!" move of FormUp! Boosting morale should increase combat effectiveness, not eradicate fatigue (wounds/damage in this case).









Dogg












Dogg M'ordae-Pitibi
General Rebel Badass (Colonel)

SYN - The Leading Force in Rebel PvP


irott
Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:52 pm
#12
Color... overload....



[irott and the full effect]
Master Squad Leader
"We're all in it together" - Archibald 'Harry' Tuttle
WolfwoodCross
Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:02 am
#13

Add this to Master Squad Leader Box -



  • Ability "Orbital Bombardment xxxx yyyy" - The Squad Leader can call down a heavy artillery strike for an orbital weapons platform to strike at the desired location. This ability strikes the location and has a damage radius of 64m. It deals Blast Damage to everyone within range, so it is important to move your group out of the blast radius. A Master Squad Leader must be within 128m of the desired location to initiate an Orbital Bombardment. This ability can only be used once an hour. And yes, the delay is that high because I intend it to be THAT damaging. I.e. a direct hit on a Turret (the big one) should knock 75% HAM out of it.

A Squad Leader can use his "Orbital Map" to pick out the coordinates of his intended target.


Perhaps lower damage to doing 50% damage to a healthy big Turret, but otherwise keep everything the same


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