Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Squad Leaders and how they can help with GTEF problems
SL's are already required for activating the detonation sequence on base terminals......unless that was soemhow goofed up lately.
i dont think rank should matter either. I for one have no desire to work up all the FP necessary for colonol...yet I am an officer and i do take part in factional PvP. I think any Factioned SL should be able to make overt sint he field. It has been an issue suggested before
but i also do not think itll solve any Group TEF system ....peopel wills till choose to remain covert.
Well if you read carefully I said get rid of GTEF. How can you GTEF if it doesnt exist. And yeahI think something needs to be done to make moving up ranks valuable instead of just status quo....colonel player overt granting seems like a worthyreward...otherwise, you can just go to a recruiter. Besides most hardcore PVP'ers are colonels anyways. Now the real point of this thread wasto allowsquad leader colonels tomass invite a group to be overt. What do you guys think of that?
PanzerGR wrote:
but i also do not think itll solve any Group TEF system ....peopel wills till choose to remain covert.
Message Edited by Nanuu on 03-28-2004 06:22 PM
Ok...let me get this straight. Your complaining that groups go out and have 1 guy overt and that allows the covert members jump people and kill them. Your suggestion is that a SL or a colonel of a faction can make someone overt in the field.
I am sorry, but how is this solving anything? All your doing is getting rid of the one guy who has to be overt so all this is doing is allowing the whole group jump people anyways by doing the same thing. I mean, hell, lets abuse this even more and let the entire group go covert into a NPC bunker/PC base and just quick turn a guy overt when you need it to blow up the thing instead of fighting your way through.
Sorry, but that is just so wrong I can't put words to it.
Nanuu wrote:
Well if you read carefully I said get rid of GTEF. How can you GTEF if it doesnt exist. And yeahI think something needs to be done to make moving up ranks valuable instead of just status quo....colonel player overt granting seems like a worthyreward...otherwise, you can just go to a recruiter. Besides most hardcore PVP'ers are colonels anyways. Now the real point of this thread wasto allowsquad leader colonels tomass invite a group to be overt. What do you guys think of that?
PanzerGR wrote:
but i also do not think itll solve any Group TEF system ....peopel wills till choose to remain covert.
Message Edited by Nanuu on 03-28-2004 06:22 PM
i dont think it should be JUST COLONOLS
ive been MSL since september and never once droppe dit, not even partially.....yet becaus ei am not a colonol im chopped liver?
I think any Master SL (or maye even stick it int he leadership branch...i suggest NOT making it novice because then cheesedips will just take novice SL just so they can do that particular skill) who IS in a faction should be able to do it.
Also..i do not believe in removing the GTEF. I do not do the things you suggest...although I do know they are done. But if I am overt, or me and 2 others in my group are...and we run acorss a group of overts in the field while hunting, i believe myg roup should have every right to return fire, regardless of whether or not they are covert or overt. if your buddy gets hit in a bar your not just gonan stand there and let him go down...if your in the military and your suad is being shot at your not just going to stand there.
it can be abused but it should stay.
BlkTom wrote:
Ok...let me get this straight. Your complaining that groups go out and have 1 guy overt and that allows the covert members jump people and kill them. Your suggestion is that a SL or a colonel of a faction can make someone overt in the field.
I am sorry, but how is this solving anything? All your doing is getting rid of the one guy who has to be overt so all this is doing is allowing the whole group jump people anyways by doing the same thing. I mean, hell, lets abuse this even more and let the entire group go covert into a NPC bunker/PC base and just quick turn a guy overt when you need it to blow up the thing instead of fighting your way through.
Sorry, but that is just so wrong I can't put words to it.
Heh. Ok I didn't want to get too into the technical specifics on an alternate solution to the GTEF problem. I was more focusing on the role of a squal leader in this process. So, I will take copy and paste my old post here so you guys understand how it can work. Hope this clears things up. I did not feel like rewriting this for the context of this thread so please bare with me.
PanzerGR wrote:
Nanuu wrote:
Well if you read carefully I said get rid of GTEF. How can you GTEF if it doesnt exist. And yeahI think something needs to be done to make moving up ranks valuable instead of just status quo....colonel player overt granting seems like a worthyreward...otherwise, you can just go to a recruiter. Besides most hardcore PVP'ers are colonels anyways. Now the real point of this thread wasto allowsquad leader colonels tomass invite a group to be overt. What do you guys think of that?
PanzerGR wrote:
but i also do not think itll solve any Group TEF system ....peopel wills till choose to remain covert.
Message Edited by Nanuu on 03-28-2004 06:22 PM
ive been MSL since september and never once droppe dit, not even partially.....yet becaus ei am not a colonol im chopped liver?
No, you'll just have to be with a colonel or just go overt like you normally would at a recruiter or base.
Also..i do not believe in removing the GTEF. I do not do the things you suggest...although I do know they are done. it can be abused but it should stay.
Ok in your little scenario, GTEF isn't a big deal. For grandscale pvp, however, it becomes a big problem and makes things frustrating for most. The game issupposed to be fun and all GTEF does is make things cheap and unfair. It's extremely abused.You would understand if you were a hardcore pvp'er. Go to the GCW forum, theres a wholethread on whether gtef should be removed. Your thoughts on gtef are that of a very small minority of the PVP community. When it comes down to it, if you want to fight, be overt...if you arent...then you don't fight.
Fun...? You want fun? I have been the victim of camping and other PvP crap because I am a SL and the only way I can grind faction missions by myself and get those 63 points to do jack for me is to go Overt and bring out Stampy (AT ST). I know all about the crap your trying to 'prevent'. I don't see how this helps at all to stop that.
As for your breakdown, I am sorry, but a TEF till your attacked? **edit**? Isn't that the whole point is so you can go hostile to blow away your opponent? Go off of /their/ radar so they can't see you and do what? Attack you? Like what your gonna do in 10 seconds anyways? And I see you didn't even touch the whole base aspect. What? some poor SOB just lost 45-75k of faction points and all of those defences mean jack when you go Overt /inside/ the base?
I have the feeling that the only reason you posted on here is to get more support for this idea. Sorry, but I for one will fight tooth and nail to never see the ability of a SL or anyone else to give Overt to anyone anywhere at anytime. It is a poorly thought out idea that doesn't solve the problem and for lack of a better term throws gas on the fire.
Unlike some people, instead of just saying 'no' I will give you a solution that I feel is better and that may actually solve the problem of GTEF.
-Coverts can not heal a Overt in combat or under the effect of a bleed/poison/burn that was given to them by anOvert of a opposing faction. They can not gain a TEF flag then. I would go so far as that a Covert can not heal an Overt after 1 hour of being in combat with the opposing faction (unless you die).
-You do not allow Covert members to attack Overt members of the opposistion. You give them a TEF only when they trigger the Imperial Crackdown and get attacked by NPC troops.
Yes, in short, you make it impossible for Coverts to attack Overt PCs. There would be no GTEF and if they are attacked Coverts can do nothing to aid a fellow member that is Overt or has a TEF. If they want to help, they have to make a choice to go Overt, no fence sitting allowed to give them an unfair advantage or suprise in combat.
That takes care of the old 1 Overt the rest Covert gang and healing a guy to get a TEF to jump in on combat.
Now...camping.
Places/Cities that have Recruiters normally have a Base of some sort or patrols of troops. You take this one step further and place Turrets that take 1/3 the damage from PCs that can not be burned/poisoned/bleed/ect. The only way a PC city can have a Recruiter is to have a Base and thus can have Turrets. NPC cities like Theed/Bestine/Imperial Outposts on various planets all could stand a little extra firepower to take care of campers. Can they sit out of range of the guns? Sure...but then they can't get to the PCs going Overt at the Recruiter. NPC turrets will also re-spawn once destroyed, unlike PCBases that have to have someone go out and replace them.
There you go, a more viable solution to taking care of the problems your complaining about than making it worst with your suggestion, at least in my opinon. Do I make it to hard? Well, think of it as more of a challange.
Nanuu wrote:
PanzerGR wrote:
Nanuu wrote:
Well if you read carefully I said get rid of GTEF. How can you GTEF if it doesnt exist. And yeahI think something needs to be done to make moving up ranks valuable instead of just status quo....colonel player overt granting seems like a worthyreward...otherwise, you can just go to a recruiter. Besides most hardcore PVP'ers are colonels anyways. Now the real point of this thread wasto allowsquad leader colonels tomass invite a group to be overt. What do you guys think of that?
PanzerGR wrote:
but i also do not think itll solve any Group TEF system ....peopel wills till choose to remain covert.
Message Edited by Nanuu on 03-28-2004 06:22 PM
ive been MSL since september and never once droppe dit, not even partially.....yet becaus ei am not a colonol im chopped liver?
No, you'll just have to be with a colonel or just go overt like you normally would at a recruiter or base.
Also..i do not believe in removing the GTEF. I do not do the things you suggest...although I do know they are done. it can be abused but it should stay.
Ok in your little scenario, GTEF isn't a big deal. For grandscale pvp, however, it becomes a big problem and makes things frustrating for most. The game issupposed to be fun and all GTEF does is make things cheap and unfair. It's extremely abused.You would understand if you were a hardcore pvp'er. Go to the GCW forum, theres a wholethread on whether gtef should be removed. Your thoughts on gtef are that of a very small minority of the PVP community. When it comes down to it, if you want to fight, be overt...if you arent...then you don't fight.
okie dokie squirt....
if you were a "hardcore" pvper yourself you would realize that in many instances groups are thrown together quickly and inconsistently.....therefore soemtimes it is NOT possible for peopel to run to a recruiter extremely fast and then catch up to the group for an attack.
Furthermore you are completely ignoring the fact that if Im overt, or a few peopel ina group are overt, and we are hunting or out having a good time....and we get attacke dby a large enemy force who has overts. If we are fired upon, thent he group as a whoel ha EVERY RIGHT to return that fire...regardless of who is overt or covert.
Furthermore I do PvP a lot. I dont know how long oyu have been playing but I imagine I have seen more actiont han you have.But thats neither here nor there. Simple fact is I do know what im talking about. If you think GTEF is bad, maybe you should have been around for all the revenge TEF stuff we had months and months ago. Willing to bet you encountered very little revenge TEF'ing. I used to sit in AH Cantina every night.....EVERY night for weeks on end watching Imps cloen then coem back intot he cantina and lay down a fire ont he peopel who had attacked them before. Theyd sit and do it for hours nonstop on end.
Lastly....are you even asquad leader?
Again ill ask why we should all have to be Colonols to use this little rule of yours. If im dedicated to a faction and have at least soem rankw ith them...as an MSL why shouldnt I be able to use this? AM i somehow a disgrace of a Squad Leade rif i do not hold the ultimate rank in my hands? Am i somehow not worth the ability to make people overt if they cant salute me and lick my ***** ?
If your going to give this to squad leaders....then give it to squad leaders. Do not base it on Faction points please.Gdday, b-bye.
btw....just in case you missed it
theres nothing wrong with GTEF.
if you treat every Blue dot as a potential threat while engage din pvP youll be fine. Sure theyll get off an initial shot or 2...and CM's are a huge pain (but thats because of their overpowerdness, not due to GTEF)..but if you target those who ARE overt and taek them down fast, then youll be able to easily respond to any hidden covert members who open up on you.
I have no problem getting myg roups focused on a single overt target..and usually by the time he is down ive tabbed thru all the coverts who just opene dup and picked out another target to focus my men onto.
Dont blame the GTEF on shoddy group management...of any "problem" with the GCW i find the GTEF to be on the lowest possible bracket. It is easy to counter.
BlkTom wrote:
As for your breakdown, I am sorry, but a TEF till your attacked? **edit**? Isn't that the whole point is so you can go hostile to blow away your opponent? Go off of /their/ radar so they can't see you and do what? Attack you? Like what your gonna do in 10 seconds anyways? And I see you didn't even touch the whole base aspect. What? some poor SOB just lost 45-75k of faction points and all of those defences mean jack when you go Overt /inside/ the base?
Heh. You obviously didn't read clearly. We are preventing gtef in this solution. If you allow people to go overt instantly, that's as bad as GTEF. ....A TEF for a set time ORRR if you are attacked first...whichever comes first... This prevents people from standing in front of you and instantly going overt and ganking you. This is actually worse than gtef. You make a timer and a TEF. This prevents ganking.
I have the feeling that the only reason you posted on here is to get more support for this idea.
Actually, no. I don't need your support. Theres like a 11 page post on the GCW forum with people who agree GTEF sucks. If you read my original post, you would see that this was not my intention. I had to present my idea to counter some replys to my original post. I came here to give you guys an idea for squad leader.
Sorry, but I for one will fight tooth and nail to never see the ability of a SL or anyone else to give Overt to anyone anywhere at anytime. It is a poorly thought out idea that doesn't solve the problem and for lack of a better term throws gas on the fire.
Its the ability to allow a colonel to give overt.....not squad leader. Its a reward for climbing the ranks other than just status quo. Being a squad leader would just enhance this COLONEL ability.
And sorry buddy, people CAN already go "overt" any time anywhere....its call GTEF! This is an alternate solution that gives the player the ability to constantly fight like GTEF does, without being cheap. It's aCOMPROMISE between people who want GTEF to STAY and people who want to GET RID OF IT. GTEF was the poorly thought out idea to begin with, I am improving it in a way that can make everyone happy.
Unlike some people, instead of just saying 'no' I will give you a solution that I feel is better and that may actually solve the problem of GTEF.
-Coverts can not heal a Overt in combat or under the effect of a bleed/poison/burn that was given to them by anOvert of a opposing faction. They can not gain a TEF flag then. I would go so far as that a Covert can not heal an Overt after 1 hour of being in combat with the opposing faction (unless you die).
I say leave the heal TEF. The person healing the overt can't attack anyways, but they can get attacked. A covert is still part of a faction, they should be able to help. You help the enemy, you are the enemy.
-You do not allow Covert members to attack Overt members of the opposistion. You give them a TEF only when they trigger the Imperial Crackdown and get attacked by NPC troops.
If you have a TEF, and you get attacked, you should be able to attack back.
Yes, in short, you make it impossible for Coverts to attack Overt PCs. There would be no GTEF and if they are attacked Coverts can do nothing to aid a fellow member that is Overt or has a TEF. If they want to help, they have to make a choice to go Overt, no fence sitting allowed to give them an unfair advantage or suprise in combat.
Agreed except I believe in healing TEF's. You heal someone, you are vulnerable to attack, but cannot attack unless you are attacked. This does not lead to cheap tactics...this leads to putting yourself at risk of getting attacked if you do such an action.
Now...camping.
Places/Cities that have Recruiters normally have a Base of some sort or patrols of troops. You take this one step further and place Turrets that take 1/3 the damage from PCs that can not be burned/poisoned/bleed/ect. The only way a PC city can have a Recruiter is to have a Base and thus can have Turrets. NPC cities like Theed/Bestine/Imperial Outposts on various planets all could stand a little extra firepower to take care of campers. Can they sit out of range of the guns? Sure...but then they can't get to the PCs going Overt at the Recruiter. NPC turrets will also re-spawn once destroyed, unlike PCBases that have to have someone go out and replace them.
While an interesting idea, rebel recruiters are in hiding ever since the imperial crackdown. I don't think a hiding rebel would have a turret in a cantina.
Isay a better solution would be the starport \ log on solution thats already in the game. When you go to a recruiter or base to go overt...theres a 1 minute delay before you actually go overt.
There you go, a more viable solution to taking care of the problems your complaining about than making it worst with your suggestion, at least in my opinon.
You have some good ideas. But you have to understand that my idea is a compromise. I don't believe my idea makes things worse...You really need to re-read and digest it instead of skimming through it.
'Do I make it to hard? Well, think of it as more of a challange.
No. GTEF is cheap and you solve that problem in your solution.