Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Any fixes incoming?
Our correspondent has recommended numerous necessaryfixes to the skill line. Howeverhe also recommended welose our ability to gain SL xp while grouped with just our pets. That's ok though, we're so badly gimped what will taking away yet one more source of xp do?
Sheuset,
I asked for a better way to get the XP, which in turn will remove that ability to get XP solo with pets. You folks hostile to that statement are taking it totally the wrong way. The way I reccomended Squad Leader XP be changed will be far better for you to not group with your pets and with people.
Just my 2c but with the way the game works presently, pets are needed in groups in order to tank the enviornment targets which are 5-10+x larger than any player can ever be. As such, they need to be grouped in order to be properly tracked and healed. ANY exp solution must accept this simple fact or SWG or be doomed. Any change which essentially makes pets unwelcome in a group will fail. SL's are pretty undesirable now, wait till we try to tell people not to group their pets. On top of this significant problem, is the issue that group leader doesn't get to decide what pets to invite anyway. Sure we can kick them, but pet owners invite their own pets.
I don't know exactly what EXP system you suggested but I don't believeconcerns would be unwarranted. I have spent 20+ hours working on just 1 bubble of the 1st tier of our skills. I am halfway. It is painfully apparent that I should have gone with a weapon specialist + SL if I wanted to ever get any exp. This class is painful to try to use right now and useless regardless.
That's why it's not in the top 5 list. Take a look for yourself:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=squad_leader&message.id=1134
OMG we need an edit feature LOL sorry about the triple post!
What I meant to say was that I don't mean to be hostile Captain, and yes you don't have it in the top five issue list, but you have it in the BUG list, which in my opinion is even worse! I'm forced to agree with Stormweaver...
There is not any sort of concensus on this issue, and clearly the forum is sharply divided on this,calling it a bug just isn't accurate. I hope they don't fix this "bug" but instead concentrate on making us a viable profession ie. making us stronger and not weaker.
So then what you're saying is that it was an intended feature? The definition of an unintended feature is a bug, thus my placement on it. The class should not be able to get experience via grouping with no player characters, just as someone shouldn't gain pistol XP via not using a pistol. Look at it that way. Don't look at it as something the Dev's are putting ahead of everything else. I'm sure that's one of the last of their concerns right now.
I'd like an answer to the title of this thread. Are there changes coming, and if so when and what?
--Ze'ev
Are you saying that it isn't operating as intended? Did a developer tell you that or is that based solely on your opinion of the profession? I'm personally sensing a lot of bias to this point. We have had a skewed polls which anyone but a politician would have said was mixed. I'm a bit confused where a developer has stated that grouping with pets is not consistent with their vision of squad leader.
This may have happened and I missed it, but putting something on the bug list which is not obviously a bug seems to be more of a political statement thanan attempt at a correction. It can't be a bug unless someone says it wasn't intended that way. Now, we can all agree that they never intended a lot of things that have been in the game (like harvesters running with no maintenance and power) but I can't agree that pets giving SL exp is a bug. How about... the amount of damage I do with my pistol determines my SL exp... now that should be a bug. How much damage the SL does shouldn't figure at all into the exp equation.
This isn't a matter of getting pistol experience without a pistol. I'm getting group leader experience for being in a group. I don't think anyone cares about that aspect of it. The question is why put up the whiffle ball for the easy nerf when there are so many more significant problems.
I guess people are just trying to figure out why anyone would want to weaken one of the weakest professions in the game?
"Once more into the breach my friends..."
Okay, so I get pistol xp by using a pistol? Actually I'm spamming F9 for Body Shot 2 is what I'm doing. I'm not using the pistol. I am just watching sprites and tabbing targets and spamming F9, or F8 now for Stopping Shot.
Why! Why!?! Why do you insist that I needa human on the other end of the connection for my SL to gain xp? It is a romantic view of the SL, broken piece of garbage profession that it is. It is a view that says the numbers and abilities suck but I myself can lead you. If that's the case then there is absolutely no need for SL, period!
When you have a droid you can put it in formation, have it follow you, make it stay, set its target for attack, have it move through agro, guard you...you can make very intelligent tactical decisions that are followed at least as well as many PCs would follow them. You really are gaining real world experience by making good decisions with your pet.
And so you know where I am coming from, I have gotten about 1500 SL xp by grouping with a pet. The rest is grouping with PCs. I simply strongly believe that the option should be available.
I advocate the SL gaining xp in other ways besides combat xp times the number of occupied slots in the group. That makes no sense to me.
And, now that I have perpetuated the argument some more, do we have any idea if they are looking into issues relating to SL? For those of us in Beta I seem to recall that it was fairly well glossed over and most players had surrendered it if they'd picked it up. Does this concern them that they are taking up space with useless coding? Will they change things to make it more interesting?
CaptainVemnox wrote:
Sheuset,
I asked for a better way to get the XP, which in turn will remove that ability to get XP solo with pets. You folks hostile to that statement are taking it totally the wrong way. The way I reccomended Squad Leader XP be changed will be far better for you to not group with your pets and with people.
I don't feel that hostile about it. I would say however that there are SO many other things that are broken about the class that taking something away shouldn't be in a top 5 list. Once the profession is actually playable then talking about redoing the exp system may work better. I'd hate to be in a situation where then lop off the exp because that's easy to do, and don't put anything in. Even reasonable players eventually get tired of the BS and either drop the profession or drop the game.
CaptainVemnox wrote:
"When you have a droid you can put it in formation, have it follow you, make it stay, set its target for attack, have it move through agro, guard you...you can make very intelligent tactical decisions that are followed at least as well as many PCs would follow them. You really are gaining real world experience by making good decisions with your pet."
I won't argue with that at all, that is very true and yes I agree Squad XP should be given for that situation. But I'm sorry, I do not agree, not will ever, that folks should be given Squad XP for a pet that is simply called and sits there motionless. If I'm running around with a mouse droid I'm doing nothing with getting Squad XP, then there is definently a problem. If I am actively giving commands and such to my pet, I do not see a problem with it.
For those of you that do think you should still get XP with that mouse droid or AFK droid, if you will, (one you don't use at all) ... post, post, post!
So name another class that HAS to have another player to get xp (under your formula). Name a way you can still become a squad leader if you do not play at prime times or if you play on a unpopulated planet of a lower server? A squad leader should not be punished for his play time. Each person should have the ability to get squad leader xp when grouping with pets. Its stated on the box that you can choose any profession and advance but what your suggesting would make it almost impossible unless that person moved servers or changed jobs. I do not agree with that at all. If you want to gain SL xp slowly then knock yourself out. It should be set up..and it is...that you gain SL slowly if you just group with a pet and you gain it tremendously if you group with a large number of players.
Until the Novice Squad leader can offer more than Sysgroup he will not be a prime choice for a group to give up its non squad leader, leader. I think several people felt put out Vemnox that you listed it as a bug without checking first with the community i.e. a poll or asking the dev's if it was intended. I for one believe it should be for the above reason and also WHY ARE PETS ALLOWED THE /GROUP COMMAND? What function does it serve if not to be able to get benefits from a SL?
No one has been able to answer that. Can you?