Squad Leader Archive

Or maybe it's not hard enough.

I want people in my galaxyto see the title Squad Leader and think "Whoa! This guy must really know his stuff." The title should command respect from most folks in the galaxy, friend and foe alike, and the Elite Titles even more so. Master Squad Leaders should be seen asamong the best overall players in the galaxy (note the subtle difference between "best overall", and "strongest" or "most deadly") and should garner instant respect from Fighters to Crafters to Image Designers.

Regular people should flock to havesquad leaders lead them not soley because of what buffs we can give them, the buffs should just be a bonus, but because being in a group with a squad leader should be a guaranteed good time and kick some serious ass. Be it PvP or PvE, or anything. This is because, among other things, Squad Leaders should look out for their people (leave no man or woman behind!), keep clear objectives in mind (we are only hunting big game and will not be wasting time on piddly lairs), should be fair and equitable with everything the party gains like loot orscouting/camping xp (warn and if necessary deal harshly (ie boot) the ninja looter/harvesters, IF that is a goal of the group), have a good general knowledge of the game itself (be willing and able to explain how stuff works to newbs and vets alike, this makes your groups more effective and heck might even make you a few friends). Group buffs should not be lightly glossed over, but they should be secondary and should be a little ways down the list (granted they should actually work, but that's another thread). Above all Squad Leaders should foster trust and inspire their groups to accomplish goals greater than the sum of their parts.

I feel strongly that regular people should feel secure in believing that Squad Leaders provide the above and more. I want Squad Leaders to be held to a higher standard and I want the bar to entry raised.

When I saw a Master Creature Handler for the first timeby the second week of retail, I was at first impressed and surprised, very much "that guy must have his @#$* together". Whena few days fter I saw dozens ofMaster CHsptiching Rancors and Graulsoutside every starport I was surprised, somewhat irked, and very much /yawn. Would I like to have one (a CH I'm talking about, not the pet) in battle? Sure, tehy'd be a valuable asset contributing to teh keep-me-alive factor. But Grauls are so dime a dozen now they're completely boring and take a lot of the challenge out of things like Kimos and Kryats. It is just too easy and I submit that that is not good for the long term fun and value of the game. (note: I'm not crying NERF CH here, I'm just pointing out that they're everywhere)

I don't wantregular people to eventually view Master Squad Leaders the way I now view Master Creature Handlers (as dime a dozen nowand not that big a deal really). And if SLs get a major upgrade you can bet that those very same powermongers will flock this way, dilute the population and tarnish our good name. A Master Squad Leader should be, in my opinion, someone who really wants to be a leader (for whatever motives) and not someone who just wants to be Uber stat-wise. I agree that a Master Squad Leader should be powerful, and all the current attributes should all work, but, I just don't want to see a ton of Master SLs running around that don't know what they're doing, that are just in it for the + signs.

I also think thatbeing able to strictly powerlevel Squad Leader is bad for us as well. Be it with pets alone (slow asthat is) or by mindless tuskenwhoring.Doing eitheris detrimental to actual, real, tangible leadership and communicationskills. And I think that hurts us as a group. That said, I must confess that I do both.

This lack of real skill and fieldcraft will be reflected when pisspoor leaders lead the trusting and unsuspecting masses into battle....and get slaughtered. Those who've had the pleasure of being lead by such bafoons could come down with a case of once bitten, twice shy, and swear off groupsand certainly won't seek out SLs. That clearly isn't good for the game.

You see, anytime a group is formed, byeven aregualr player, a certain amount of trust is formed between the players in the group and the (L)eader of that group, even if it's just trusting that this guy isn't going to waste your time by being stupid and getting everybody dead. I think with the title of Squad Leader that bar is raised. In a regular group you Hope the guy isn't a moron, in a Squad Leader's group people should safely Expect that the leader isn't a moron, and indeed might be competent. Will people playing a Squad Leader learn how to lead Real People, if they simply level with pets all day? Maybe some will, some folks are just natural leaders. That is good. Lead well and your reputation will spread. But other folks aren't good leaders by nature. They could learn (maybe they're too abrasive), but they might not learn quickly, thus alienating a lot of people. So they take to solo pet XP'ing to "show those stupid b@stards!" When they reach the higher level SL abilities, they're still just as abbrasive, maybe more. The end result is that they ruin otherpeople's good times. And that's not good for the game. Maybe my fears aer unfounded, I just see a lot of interpersonal responsibility in the SL prof, and I don't want it taken lightly. If this game's going to prosper as a fun, social medium it can't be. Otherwise we'll have 5000 solo artists per galaxy and that will be that/

Somebody in a diff thread mentioned issuing tacticalcommands to droid in battle, and that's a very good idea, valuable skills will be most definietly be leaerned that way and I can see rewarding that person. I thinkCaptainV pointed out thatsomebodyelse will get the same XP reward just by grouping with a do-nothing mouse droid. That just doesn't seem right. Plus, I submit there's more to it. How far will that serve you when you've got some mavrick cowboy in group that will not obey orders? I submit you only learn how to deal with said cowboy by actually dealing with them. Another person I saw discussed how he often grouped with several people each of whom had pets. I think that can be a graet group, and efficient management of it should be rewarded (that's a lot to coordinate and pay attention to, and do damage). So, I'm not advocating eliminating pets from the XP pool (maybe reduce the mutliplier if a groupmate is a pet, or bump it if it's a PC?)

At any rate, there is no weed out test for idiots in any profession in this game. You payyour monthly fee and have the right to playjust about anyway you choose within the games confines, and that is great. The only limit to how high you can go isjust a matter of whether or not you can amass a totally arbitrary amount of certain XP (which itself seems terribly arbitrary in our Prof, but I digress). But I really think that Squad Leader, above any other, should have such a test. I would propose that that test be even higher, and harder to attain XP requirements (easy for devsto add I'd think), and possibly more appropriate XP system. For exampleI do thinka leader should get some reward for sacrificing himself with Retreat so the group can survive (but, adding new XP systems at this stage of the game just isn't going to happen).
But even so, I think wisely using such a sacrificial command, if done properlycan saves lives, and will endear you to your group. At least to thosethat are smart enough to recognize what you'd done and have battled by your side will appreciate it. And those are the people who wil be glad to group with you again, and you'll be glad to have. I personally think that alone is worth more than any amount of XP.

Just my rambling 2cr

-Psquire, Ahazi

PS Wu'Jen, you're the only master SL that I know of, just so you knowI don't want you to think I'm targeting this at you. I've read your posts, and you definitely know **edit** you're talking about. I'd be honored to group with you anytime . /bow

well, if you play a SL effectivly, then you will see we are also in need of some fixes, example, try Form-Up? nice command i say, ever try it when the SL is dizzy.... really... and what message did you get... thoguht so, nope, a SL can cure dizzy of ALL his group members, UNLESS he is dizzy, now how lame is that... sorry guys, cant use my inate class ability that cures dizzy, becasue i am dizzy, lame. SL exp, ever try to get some? didnt think so... we definantly need a 10% increase for SL exp with less than 5 members.... size should matter... but it shouldnt be one of the 2 factors based on SL exp. now for the Master SL, until i see the day of a screen shot.... there is no possibility, unless they cheated, bug, hack, or exploit.... take it from a SL who has played ot be the profession from day one... spun od dope... up for days straight kicking Storm trooper butt, and i have just got all my first tier, and working on most my second, any one who says there a master SL i call you a liar till i see proof.

nice long post, but i guess you must not understand the purposes of classes.

A) By your defeintion, a Medic can be an Squad Leader if they can lead well.

B) Classes are supposed to set us apart (Carbineer, Rifleman, Droid Engineer, Weaponsmith)

Right now an SL cant do much. We have a few skills but they just arent that useful. I dont know where you get SL commands respect, i just get pity saying that SL dont do much. We should be the best at leading squads, unfortunately, we arent the best, someone with real leadership is the best. Our bonuses dont to much or are hardly notciable. Our skills hurt the SL and some classes. And grinding for that SL experience is very hard becasue no one really cares if your an SL or not.

Just an all out great, thought out post. Very good read, thanks for taking the time to post it.

>"I thinkCaptainV pointed out thatsomebodyelse will get the same XP reward just by grouping with a do-nothing mouse droid. That just doesn't seem right."

...and that's all I am getting it. Not that PETS in the group doing things shouldn't, because they well should count.

Great post, definetely gives me motivation to aim for SL. I love RPing, personally, though I've yet to do it on SWG, both because of the difficulty in finding another RPer and because of the lack of terribly interesting things to do when it comes to exploring. So, like most other MMORPGs, I've given in and just learned to work on tactics and having fun socializing and battling. SLs seem to definetely have an aura of rarity and respect (ideally) that warrants working on the class. It seems that they'll be a perfect social/combat class eventually, as opposed to a combat/crafting class (Smuggler) or a combat/healing class (Combat Medic) or any of the other combinations. That's the way I've come to look at it, personally, and I find that it makes sense, for the most part.

But. I agree with the other posts, too.

Socializing is cool, and so is knowing your way around the battle field. But that's in the heart of playing the game, not a class. This class should symbolize our devotion to those aspects, but that's the thing--we picked a class that would eat up our skill points to boost and aid our teams in battle. We could have picked any number of other classes, most of which are made to aid oneself in some way. Even a Medic can heal himself of damage, which is invaluable to being able to get back on your feet quickly. Skill points are *that* numerous, and SLs show their devotion to being a leader by sacrificing their skill points to a class based on leading. Thus, people should be happy they did that... the bonuses should really show. As it is right now, it seems like people would be happier seeing a *Commando* on their team than a SL (hey, those pistol launchers look pretty cool), and there's something very wrong with that. A class is something people put their time, credits, and skill points into. People want to see results and enjoy their class by feeling they're a little unique. I know I do, anyway.

When it comes right down to it, I agree with you, though. I want the title to command a sort of respect... maybe not the kind Jedi are gonna get when they show up, but hey. ;P Most people aren't going to want to put in skill points in a profession that nets them almost nothing personally (it's human nature... we're paying a lot for this game ), so I imagine it'll stay relatively rare. But this forum has gotten me hooked so far with it's leadership, so I look forward to a majority of the Leaders warranting their position. ^^

So, basically what you are saying is that it would be okay with you if they collapsed the Squad Leader tree into 2 boxes. The first one costs 6 skill points and25K combat experience while giving the title Novice Squad Leader. It offers no advantages except the title. The next box requires 2 million squad leader experience, costs 57 points and offers no skills except to give the fancy title Master Squad Leader.

That's cool with you?

I see that I wasn't the only one to pick that out. I had the same dreams of becoming a squad leader. Actually, I wanted to be a jedi eventually, but my second choice was squad leader. But, anyway, I envisioned playing a SL just as you described it, BUT the profession is sorely lacking in anything useful at this point. Like it was mentioned above, a medic could be a good squad leader by your definition. And, again, I like your vision of what the squad leader should be, but in the realm of SWG professions, there should be some advantage to your squad(group) from your playing a SL as opposed to a medic or an artisan, but it's not really there. I want to see tangible bonuses for my group that are evident when I'm watching the SL xp trickle in. I want to know that my skill points are worth it because xp means very little in the long run. It's all about the skill points and where they are tied up. I've already started branching out into other elite and hybrid professions because 6 skill points to get novice gets me quite a bit on many professions. On SL, I got a system message that gets mixed in with all the other system messages most of the time.

Obedaia Jetletter
Ranger et al.
Wanderhome

Good stuff. I don't want Squad Leaders to be the "newbie class" like Creature Handling is now. But luckily, most people who go the Scout/Marksman route are becoming Bounty Hunters anyway, so we're pretty rare even now. I've actually had people tell me I'm the first Squad Leader they've seen. And I like that. So yeah, make it harder. But make it better at the same time. I have nothing against earning my profession, so long as I get what I pay for.

Kaosodin are you on crack? Thereisa handfulof Master Squad leaders out there already. I'm one and I know of another on Bloodfin. No I didn't cheat or exploit, it's not that hard when you have friends that are always wanting to group with you.

regardless of pets or droids, you are still commanding them as the leader and thus you should get xp (if minimal). Also your pressense alone bolsters ppls defense and automatically makes for better coordination (transformed in ranged and mellee bonus). Not everything can be completely rped and have a technical translation.

Wow great responses, from both sides of the aisle, good dialouge.

Let me just try to sum up my main point as succinctly as possible:

I think Squad Leader is fine the way it is because if it were to get more "uber" the wannabe l33t kids (currently powerleveling thruBounty Hunter and Master Creature Handler) will then flock in great numbersto SL next. This will have the effect of ruining Squad Leaders' general respect in the community at large. I submit that this is a "Bad Thing" (tm). [/end point]

[begin ramblings]

Yes there are BHs and CHs that aren't punks, I've met several that are very cool in fact, and would love to have them in my party anytime, and they are very much badass and can deliver a lot of firepower, that's good. But the sheer number of numbnut ones chasing that profession, that are just mean, crude, selfish kids (using that term loosely) leaves a bad taste in my mouth so now I feel very indeferent when I see a Master CH or Expert BH running around (I'll still invite them of course ) Anyway, I don't care to have thosetype of kidsrunning around with Squad Leader titles (yes, they have all the right in the world to, and if they mature by doing so, Great! I just want the immature ones to bediscourage them from doing so) I don't want other regular hard workinfolks to feel that indifferent (or negatively) about squad leaders as a whole, and I don't think they do, yet. But if we get phat skillz added and the script kiddies flock over, it's all over. And if it's "wasting" 57 points of my skill points to discourage them and separate me from them, then yes, I am willing to pay that price (remember, just my opinion, your millage may vary).

That said, the skills listed SHOULD WORK as billed, no question there. I'm only at tactics III now (haven't used retreat yet) so I really don't have a lot of personal experience with the higher level skills, just what I see posted here. I'm operating on blind faith that the +10 Group Ranged Support is doing what it's supposed to in some calculation somewhere. I'm not even sure how to prove it is or it isn't working. From what I've read I'm of the opinion that the other moves (volley fire, form up, retreat, etc) are actually working as intended. Consider the poster that mentioned not being able toform up while dizzy, this makes perfect sense to me, you can't fix other till your own mind is right (by mind I mean dizzy state, not the ham bar). I like rally, medic's I'm with haven't reported any problems healing with it on, and for not being able to harvest while rallied, it doesn't last terribly long, and besides I'd much rather have my squad worry about the fight at hand rather than ninja looting (in fact rally could be used as protection against ninjas perhaps?)

Ok, might as well go down the line, hey, I've got some time, why not?

Kaosodin, you mentioned form up and dizzy, I tend to think it makes sense as is. You also mentioned high xp reqs. MY point is simply that I don't want it to be easier to get to master, I want it to be a challenge that few people are up for. I'd be thrilled if they doubled XP reqs just for SL tomorrow. But, that's just me and SOE would probably lose a lot of customers if they did that and that's bad. So as it is, I'm happy with the current system. My oversimplified suggestion for your xp problem, build bigger groups, build bigger groups by making friends and running good hunts and attacks. You show people a good time and they'll be happy to group back up with ya later. I know easier said than done, but it's all I've got.

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MadBarbarian,

A) correct, good medics, and in fact master doctors, can make excellent leaders, but again it depends on the person behind the character. Furthermore, ifaverage player JoeMarksmansees ten medics in the cantina I'd bet that maybe2-3 of them are good leaders, maybe one of them is great. But what I envision is if Joe walks into the cantina and sees 10 Squad Leaders he can be sure that say 8-9 of them are good, and 3-4 of them might be great leaders.

B) again you are correct, and if squad leader is hard, and you have to be good (or dedicated) then squad leaders will be set apart from the rest. But if SLs get an "uber-upgrade" we'll be dilluted by I'll call them "worse" players and quickly become nodifferent from the rest of the classes, but we'll have nicer buffs. Then when Joe walks into the cantina and eh sees 10 medics and 10 SLs, he might maybe go with a SL's group, but a medic will keep him alive longer...tough choice. But if SLs across the board do their job right (help others have fun and kick ass), then and only then will SLs be the Premier choice for group leaders in all galaxies.

And you're right SLs don't get much respect, some, but not much, which is why we have to get better at leading. If we get better (as in you and I learn how to lead, not as in we add +100% to dmg just y being group (L)eader), others have more fun, they will continue to play with us, so we can get better, it's a win-win upward spiral which makes it our duty to not suck as leaders (which I currently do, but am learning )

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CaptV, thanks, I agree

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Arktic, nice post, great points. yeah, I'd say RPers are hard to find. I'm not really a roleplayer in the true sense, but I do enjoy it from time to time, and I think SL lends itself very well to leading the role play if desired (and I may go that route eventually) because if you're a respected leader and you role play, you can set the tone the others may follow your lead and have fun with it, where if you're just an avg medic trying to start RPing in an avg pick up group they might abandon you for another medic who just "shuts up and heals". Just a thought.

Ok, I have to admit here, I'm a medic too, and my favorite thing to do with that is heal incaps in the heat of battle before they get slain. True, it's not a Squad Leader ability at all. But I feel it's a Squad Leader's duty. I very rarely see avg JoeMedics saving the incaped in the heat of battle, so I think by doing that it separtes me and is a very squad leaderly thing to do, this alone has made me numerous new friends. And above and beyond that, my current absolute favorite thing to do in the game is run into a vicious group of reds, hit a /dragincapacitatedplayer on somebody that's mind incapped, or a corpse that a doc can't get to. To me that seems like the ultimate leader duty, leave no man behind. I'd love to see this in the SL tree, but as it is I'm happy to spend the medic points to get it. True you could (and I encourge you to) just get nov SL and Medic with Diag II and spend your points elsewhere and still accomplish the same. But imagine a Master squad leader bursting into a pack of dark jedifending them off just long enough to save a fallen comrade...if that fallen player has an ounce of soul you will have made a friend for life, and that to me is worth the cost.

good point that players would rather have a comando (or a master doctor) on their team than just a squad leader. Here's my suggestion....get those top players on your team. Make friends with the powerful (or at least those who will be powerful eventually). Treat them well, protect them, listen to them. They in turn become great, I'll say bait, but you know what I mean, to get other players to join your cause. I pay any doc I find VERY WELL before he even helps me or anyone in my group or even joins my group. Give them incentive to stay. I also always issue group commands to protect the group doctor at all costs. See, I don't consider myself the key asset to the group at all, I'm just the fascilitator keeping things together and hopefully everyone alive as long as possible.

And I can totally see everyone else's point of view, that we're paying for this and we want our profession to be sweetasssweet, and I want it to be too. Hell, I wish I could shoot force lightning already, it just doesnt work that way cause I didnt make the game, but I for one am willing to pay for it as it is. I just think that a good, well respected squad leader will net quite a bit personally (by making friends and having fun) even if they don't net quite as much statistically (by buffing stats, and being able to group burst run for 2 hours straight).

And yeah, the jedi will rule pretty much more than anything ever has ruled before....can't wait!

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nova, no not really cool with that, but close. The titles are nice, but so are any elite prof titles I think. I'm fine with the abilities as they are IF THEY WORK (this is a key, I've never used volley fire/boostmorale, I'm intrigued by them, but from what I've read, people are down on them). What I am cool with is the Squad Leader benefits being less killer skillson paper than other professions. This keeps the silly kiddies out and hopefully good leaders in, this is +100 for respect, imho. Plus I think if you consider things like thepassive benefits (IF THEY WORK) and multiply that across everyone in your group, while on any individual person a +20 ranged def doesnt't seem like much, but across a whole group, that might mean your squad can take a few more hits than the bad guys w/ no squad leader and that can mean the difference between victory and defeat. I do wish there was a way to let the avg joe fighter in your group know that it was your bene's that saved the day though.

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Silo, agreed, if I can't be a jedi today, I think SL is the next best thing!

Actually I play a medic too (see above) and I think it should almost be a given that SLs have some medic skills. I also have ranger for the nice camps, and I'm tempted to grab the spot that gives Rescue. My goal is to be an ultimate support player, I also fence and shoot pistols, so I'm pretty much out of points, but I can at this point fulfil a lot of functions in a group. As people advance, it'll come down to weapon masterstheir weapon stats. And maybe at that point the SL bonuses will so marginalized they'll be useless (hehe, judging from some replies they already are...) When that becomes the case I will happily surrender squad leader and find another profession to peak my interest.....like maybe Pilot...

Ok, I have to confess a secret wish here. I'm hoping when Space Expansion comes out Squad leaders get some flight time bonuses. I mean c'mon they HAVE TO. I can't wait to say /sys This is Gold Leader, we're heading in for approach" way too cool

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Orodias, thanks. I'm starting to see anumber of squad leaders on ahazi, I have a list of a dozen or so. The one's I've grouped with haev largely been very cool and competent. I'm just hoping it stays that way. And don't get me wrong, I would LOVE some more killer skills, but if I must sacrifice those killer apps to keep the unwashed from entering our ranks, then so be it.

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Good lord, I have too much time on my hands. I hope anyone that read this far whether you agree or disagree at least found something interesting to think about. I"m sure I'm in the minority opinion on most of this stuff. But I can't help it, I just calls it as I sees it. Feel free to tee off.

[/end ramblings]

Thanks for reading,

-Psquire

PS and no I'm not spell checkingthis monstrosity

Psquire,

I agree with some of the things you say, but this class does need a lot of fixes. I too, do not want a bunch of kiddies running around with Master Squad Leader titles, but I don't want to keep this class useless just so I can have a unique title. I'd rather have the class working and have 1,000 Squad Leaders running around than being a lonely gimp. It's a lose/lose situation we are in, sad to say. If the class doesn't get fixed, people won't want to group with us because we add nothing to a group. If it does get fixed, then there could be a ton of horrible Squad Leaders running around leading groups when they shouldn't be. But, as you also stated, people will want to group with you because you are a good leader, so when people weed through the kiddy Squad Leaders and finally find you as being a compotent leader, they will skip them next time and seek you out for later ventures. It's just like any other class, there's good players and bad players. Say you find a doctor that doesn't pay attention, let's people die, heals at the wrong time etc. you won't ask them to group with you next time even though they have the nice title.

As the class is right now, there is no reason to be a Master Squad Leader except for the title, which is what you seem to only care about. Rally: I never use it. Why? It uses too much Mind and fails WAY too often, over 50% even at Master. I even migrated 200 Action over to Mind to help deal with the drain of being a SL. I'm much more effective to my group spending the mind costs by shooting the targets. Boost Morale: Stupid, I will never use this skill. Make a camp and have a medic heal the wounds of the one player instead of giving the rest of the group wounds too. Now instead of having a couple less effective group members, you have the whole group being less effective. It did nothing to help the group, just moved the effectiveness of it. This can also be exploitable. Say I'm in town have horrible wounds, I just find someone with full HAM that needs training or something, invite to group,bam, half my wounds are gone, thanks buddy, cya. This needs to be changed to heal damage not wounds, I'd much rather help out the group in a huge battle by evening out damage to save a few players running low on HAM. Not to mention it's a skill that will actually get used. VolleyFire: Also stupid.I'd spend less mind and do more damage on thetarget using FanShot than a single VolleyFire from a large group. Retreat: Doesn't last long enough. If the group member has a aggro on him, it's still going to chase them, plus they canhit burst run for themselves just as easy and it lasts longer. This skill is 'ok' but does need upgraded. Melee and Ranged Defense: Neither myself nor the group members notice a difference in defense at all. Is it even working? I don't see increased misses by enemies. The only good thing right now about being a Master Squad Leader is the group terrain negotiation. Even a memeber with scout can keep up with the group just as easily as a Master Scout. This is a very good thing, nobody lags behind.

So right now it has one saving grace and I'm willing to live with that for now. I'm not trying to argue, just stating my opinion from what I've experienced from the grind up the ladder. I chose this profession so I can actually help my group, not for a title stating that I am a good group leader. People will learn that from grouping with me.

phew... that went longer than I thought it would... anyway, gl out there

Wow great post, ESD, thanks for writing it, that really gives me a lot to think about....

Being relatively new to SL I simply don't have the perspective you high level guys (and gals) do. I've just been having so much fun with it over the last two weekends, I justkind of blindly and optimisticly made some assumptionsthat nothing was wrong or could go wrong, despite all the bad press I was reading.

I'm very disheartened by the fact that the passive defensive bonuses are borked. I was very careful to throw in the IF THEY WORKED caveat, and if they don't they MUST GET FIXED (or at least made visible), no question about it. That really really reallybugs me that theyare either not helping or invisible, I'm with you on that one. I also just use things like rally assuming they work as billed, I haven't crunched the combat numbers to see if it's doing anything though, so it could very well be just as hosed. I too jacked my mind bar way up (1000) and regen in preparation for SL commands, butthat jeopardizes my health too much too much to be worth it, and I was getting incapped waaaay too much last night, I am going to rebalance them a lot more now.

Ican still see using /boostmorale to drastically shorten downtime when you don't have a good doc/medic around. For instance Lok Kimo's hit somebody with disease and you don't have a doc. wham he's down to a sliver of red. That takes forever tohealif you've only got lowly medics at best. So either you send him on his way to get fixed in town, or you get the team to shoulder the wound load (I would ask them all first of course) and get back to fighting. Granted this is a rare circumstance and as I'm thinking about this stuff more it sure doesn't seem worth a 4th level elite skill just for this... If they were to make it damage instead of wound though....yeah, that would be a killer app! Don't get me wrong, I'm all for more power and usefulness upgrades to our class, I was just naively thinking maybe we don't need them. I stand corrected.

Please don't misunderstand me though, I wasn't trying tobe all about the titles,(I probably won't get master for a looong time, 14 boxes to go and I have 3 skill points left!). My originalidea was simply that I wanted SLs, as a whole, to automatically stand apart from the crowd,in the eyes of any and all <LFG> folks, as people who were dedicated to being good leaders, enjoyedhelping others, and were fun to play with. My thinking was that if it stayed underpowered (as I readily admit it currentlyis) it would only draw people that really wanted to be there.

But, you have great points here though:

"I'd rather have the class working and have 1,000 Squad Leaders running around than being a lonely gimp. "

"It's just like any other class, there's good players and bad players. Say you find a doctor that doesn't pay attention, let's people die, heals at the wrong time etc. you won't ask them to group with you next time even though they have the nice title."

In theend, you're right, it'sour personal reputation that willcount 100x more thanany fancyclass or title. So, considering this, in thelong run it will be a lot more fun for us, and for others in our group, to have a strong,working, and in-demand classeven ifthe other wanabe l33ts flock to the power.

Ok, I officially change my position:

Squad Leader needs to be fixed

(but I still think the XP requirements should be way higher ) hehe, couldn't resist.....