Smuggler Archive

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Isakotl wrote:

Finally, according to your plan Jedi and Bounty Hunters can break FD. But what about Smugglers? Surely they have an understanding of the underworld. Aren't we naturally suspisious of one another? I think smugglers should have a counter as well. Not real good at coming up with the specific details, I'll leave that to someone else.

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And what about Medics and Doctors?

Won't work. Either make it an active escape skill as described in Caylin's posts or disable it in PvP (especially during a bounty mission). In PvE, I would say it is alright. Well, of course, if the rancor you're fighting isn't particularly hungry that day.

As you've pointed out, this would only be a band-aid. The whole system, unfortunately, needs a more thorough reworking.

Why not have the chance to detect FD be related to a BH's investigate skill? I mean, if the Jedi wants to look dead, why not give the BH the ability to take a closer look?

Or chop the body into tiny bits?

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Ternque01 wrote:

Why nerf ourselves when we can nerf them from using it inappropriately????

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Here's a quote from myself:

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Nicolas_Frost wrote:
My Solution(longish):

Keep the skill where it is, but change the function of the skill mod. Right now, as a Master Smuggler, I remember all the times /feigndeath has failed on me, all four of them. One at Dirty Fighting 1, two at Dirty Fighting 4, and one as a Master Smuggler. The mod shouldn't determine whether or not you can fall down and play dead, the mod should determine how well you can, since its unlikely we'll ever be able to fake our deaths. Then spread the skill mod throughout the Smuggler tree, not just in the Dirty Fighting branch.

At lower levels(0010), the effect mainly helps you against NPCs, with some possibility of helping fool players(minimum success rate of 5%). As you level, the success rate increases(capping at 95% as a Master).

Give Bounty Hunters a skill at 1000 that allows them to inspect corpses. Meaning after a Smuggler Feigns, the Bounty Hunter opens a radial on the Smuggler and selects the Inspect option, or can just target the smuggler and use /inspect. The skill mod for this should be spread about Hunter just as the Feign Death mod would in Smuggler. Minimum Success rate of 5% and max of 95%, actual percentages vary depending on each players levels(2040 Smuggler vs 3321 Bounty Hunter). Players with equal levels(2222 Smuggler vs 2222 Hunter, two Masters, etcetera) are a coin toss to see who would win.

So the Jedi are happy, give them a similar skill that lets them sence life in people, but include it in only *one* of the Jedi trees, and balance it just like the Inspect and Feign Death mods.

Now here comes the fun part.

Say a Bounty Hunter has a mission on a Smuggler. The Smuggler Feigns, and wins the dice roll when the Hunter inspects. The hunter *fails* the mission, gets no reward, but, can pick the mission back up for that Smuggler in twenty-four hours. Conversely, the Smuggler Feigns, but loses the dice roll, the Hunter can immediately attack the Smuggler again, and since Feign Death is essentually using a Knockdown on yourselve, the Smuggler is very vulnerable, but can still try to get back up.

So, why wouldn't a Hunter just camp the Smuggler? I mean, he's gotta move sometime, right? Well, to stop this before it starts, add in a three to five minute timer starting from the point the Smuggler feigned, if the Hunter doesn't /inspect in that length of time, it's just like the Smuggler winning the dice roll.

Here comes the even more fun part: How to keep Bounty Hunters and Jedi from abusing Feign Death on each other, and potentially Smugglers, if those types of missions ever come out.

If a Bounty Hunter uses Feign Death in the midst of a Hunting mission, they suffer a set of penalties.
Penalty for Bounty Hunter:
Failure of the mission.
TEF on mark cleared
Inability to pick up the same mission for three days.
Next two or three missions are for less money and/or experience.
Angry letters from Boba Fett.

If a Jedi uses Feign Death because they don't want to fight, even though Jedi is built to be a PvP class, they suffer a set of penalties.
Penalty for Jedi:
Experience loss equal to 75% of that lost when incapacitated(maybe 125% instead of 75%)
Visibility raised slightly
Bounty Hunter loses TEF, but does not lose mission.
Can't be healed while playing opposum(to stop Jedi from calling doctors in while on thier backs)
The Emperor sends you nude photos of himself as punishment.


Now, why did I not list any penalties for Smugglers? Well, the skill *is* in the Smuggler tree. Why should we be penalized for using one of our own skills?

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Ternque01 wrote:

Well, yimaz, your solution is balanced, but it doesn't make any sense. - huh? what are you talking about its all tied to how much skill a player has.

Faking your death during a battle or small fight is one thing. Faking dead in front of a professional assassin is something else. - while I understand your point look at it this way a BH is an assassin yes but a smuggler is in a way a conman. Its not a going out on a limb to assume the Smuggler is a better conman then the BH is an assassin, again this goes back to % mods. Who is better then who, if the BH has a higher "break" skill mod he will be able to figure it out. In sort the skill can be broken by a more skilled BH or Jedi. But a Smarter Smuggler can and should out wit a lesser BH or Jedi, simple and it does make sense.

It doesn't take any special BH or Jedi skills to be able to see if an enemy is dead or not.- no but it does take a skilled one.The only difference is the motivation to do so. - not motivation, skill.

BH kill people as a job, and have to provide some form of evidence in order to get paid. - The bio sig reads dead.

You can't pull of a mark's shoe and bring it in. You need something more substantial, something that shows without a doubt to an employer that a job has been done. - semantics and if you want to get picky jedi are not supposed to be in this time line, so come on with the shoe concept.

This is why you can't FD in front of a BH, - but as it is you can FD in front of a BH and in the current system it is worse then what I offer as an answer to the FD issueand exactly why any form of FD during a player bounty is unacceptable and unsensible. - lol, jedi do it as it is and again I do agree with you in a skill sense. If the BH is a better BH then the Smuggler is a Smuggler then the BH will see past the FD, not so hard to understand.

In general PvP, FD was used only by people who picked up smuggler for a profession or for the pistol specials. This is why it is fine in general PvP in my opinion. You don't see leagues of people picking up DF 1 just to feign on a base raid now do ya? - lol I use FD with TKA in PVP combat all the time plus most smugglers dont abuse the skill. As far as PVP andFD as a stand alone skill it is weakfor a few reasons. Right now all it is, is a "You can DB me so black bar me" skill. It could and should be better balanced and more dynamic then that.

However, FD is being picked up by quite a significant portion of the Jedi/BH community in order to lame out the player bounty system. That is where the problem is, and that is where it needs to be removed. - fact is this issue will be addressed, now we can fight (all of us) about this or we can all work on a middle ground then offer it to the dev's as an idea of what we want before then do in fact nerf the skill.

Why nerf ourselves when we can nerf them from using it inappropriately???? - nerf? where is your salution? The fact is it will be nerfed if jedi and BH keep abusing the skill and if we cant find a salution to the issue. The option I offer is from many peoples ideas and is not a nerf it is a change.

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Message Edited by yimaz on 12-29-2004 10:16 AM

Lemme break it down frame by frame bro.

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yimaz wrote:

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Ternque01 wrote:

Well, yimaz, your solution is balanced, but it doesn't make any sense. - huh? what are you talking about its all tied to how much skill a player has.

This is explained in the next paragraph.

Faking your death during a battle or small fight is one thing. Faking dead in front of a professional assassin is something else. - while I understand your point look at it this way a BH is an assassin yes but a smuggler is in a way a conman. Its not a going out on a limb to assume the Smuggler is a better conman then the BH is an assassin, again this goes back to % mods. Who is better then who, if the BH has a higher "break" skill mod he will be able to figure it out. In sort the skill can be broken by a more skilled BH or Jedi. But a Smarter Smuggler can and should out wit a lesser BH or Jedi, simple and it does make sense.

Conning business deals and giving convincing acts is one thing. My whole criticism of your idea revolves around the idea that BH must (1) actually kill their mark and (2) bring in evidence like a body or head in order to get paid. It is these two things that DIRECTLY clash with faking dead.

It doesn't take any special BH or Jedi skills to be able to see if an enemy is dead or not.- no but it does take a skilled one.Two year olds can check a pulse. The only difference is the motivation to do so. - not motivation, skill. BH are motivated to get paid. They don't get paid unless they kill their mark and bring in hard evidence proving so.

BH kill people as a job, and have to provide some form of evidence in order to get paid. - The bio sig reads dead. But then you have a biosignature way to cover the story, yimaz. The only problem is that while a BH might be fooled by a feign, a piece of equipment will not. I am not familiar with how a biosignature sensor even works, but I don't think it's programmed to be gullible.

You can't pull of a mark's shoe and bring it in. You need something more substantial, something that shows without a doubt to an employer that a job has been done. - semantics and if you want to get picky jedi are not supposed to be in this time line, so come on with the shoe concept. This is perhapsthe main point I'm making on why feign death does not make sense as far as correcting FD abuse in player bounties. A BH is either going to bring in a body or a head. I can see bringing in a bio sig confirmation, but feign death doesn't convince a computer (perhaps it could with a near-death spice). Do you expect to be able to play dead when the BH picks you up and places you in a magseal box to be transported to the Hutt? There are no semantic arguments here. This is hard as concrete. You cannot play dead in front of a person paid to ensure that you are dead. After you hit the ground, they will check for their personal safety that you are really dead. At that point, they break out the saw to take your head off or put you in a bag for their ship's freezer. Maybe they get a bio-sig readout and bring that it. At any rate, when you hit the ground, you will wait and live out the unfortunate realities that come with a what a BH does finishing up their job.

This is why you can't FD in front of a BH, - but as it is you can FD in front of a BH and in the current system it is worse then what I offer as an answer to the FD issueand exactly why any form of FD during a player bounty is unacceptable and unsensible. - lol, jedi do it as it is and again I do agree with you in a skill sense. If the BH is a better BH then the Smuggler is a Smuggler then the BH will see past the FD, not so hard to understand. A few smugglers around here are working on evasion techniques that don't involve "playing dead". Caylin has a few himself, and there are a few more out there. I like the idea of having a skill allowing pulling of a speeder during combat - risky, but potentially could save your bacon. Another skill mentioned was the ability to fade into a crowd so a BH couldn't find/target you.

In general PvP, FD was used only by people who picked up smuggler for a profession or for the pistol specials. This is why it is fine in general PvP in my opinion. You don't see leagues of people picking up DF 1 just to feign on a base raid now do ya? - lol I use FD with TKA in PVP combat all the time plus most smugglers dont abuse the skill. As far as PVP andFD as a stand alone skill it is weakfor a few reasons. Right now all it is, is a "You can DB me so black bar me" skill. It could and should be better balanced and more dynamic then that. what i'm trying to say in this paragraph is that it is not abused by non Jedi/BH. Did you not get what I was saying?

However, FD is being picked up by quite a significant portion of the Jedi/BH community in order to lame out the player bounty system. That is where the problem is, and that is where it needs to be removed. - fact is this issue will be addressed, now we can fight (all of us) about this or we can all work on a middle ground then offer it to the dev's as an idea of what we want before then do in fact nerf the skill. Read my words, none of them are inflammatory or derogative. I am not fighting here. I am merely pointing out a HUGE oversight. You cannot play dead in front of a trained assassin, period.

Why nerf ourselves when we can nerf them from using it inappropriately???? - nerf? where is your salution? The fact is it will be nerfed if jedi and BH keep abusing the skill and if we cant find a salution to the issue. The option I offer is from many peoples ideas and is not a nerf it is a change. My solution to the problem is to remove it from player bounties. Disable the skill for both the Jedi and BH involved. I thought I made it pretty clear. If you disable it, you still maintain the same functionality that FD now has, but you keep it frombeing used to destroy the player bounty system. FD isn't appropriate for player bounties in the first place, because a BH will bring in proof that you are dead... like your head or body.

You could give smuggler another evasion skill like fading into a crowd to confuse an enemy or pulling a swoop during combat in order to get away.

But the bottom line is that, playing dead is the dumbest thing you could possibly do in front of a BH. You might as well tape a sign on your chest that says, "Let me lay here while you put two in my chest and two in my head".

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Message Edited by yimaz on 12-29-2004 10:16 AM

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Message Edited by yimaz on 12-29-2004 03:09 PM

Keep FD as it is, give Master Smugglers the ability to break FD. That way we have additional potential income sources.

1. the jedi or BH who pulled FD who doesn't want it broken
2. the jedi or BH standing over the BH or jedi
3. the highest bidder between the two
4. both of them

This would be a skill that would not get you aggroed, I imagine you would get more money from the jedi not to break the FD.

After a while the jedi would stop hanging out in Coronet as there are usually 2 or 3 Master Smugglers within yell range of the starport (sometimes less then the number of jedi)