Smuggler Archive
Thread: Non-Skill Branch Requirement for Smuggler
JYCowboy wrote:
Howdy Fellow Smugglers,
I am sure this has been discussed before but, as I understand, that the PistolBranch is to be removed from our progress what will be our requirement? In many ways, Unarmed could be dropped from our requirements to. I know that Dirty Infighting is still part of the mix but what else? I use to think Business was a good requirement from Artisan. I soon came to understand that some Smugglers could be real bad at business. One fact is true for all smugglers is previous experiance, Street smart. Some have liken us to Thieves and Con-Men. In thought, if that is true then we are a profession not unlike the Politician. Sounds like a joke but we are unrelated to any other profession. In D&D, Thieves(Rouges) are thier own profession. It made sence to me, that we should have our own tree not dependant on other Combat Professions. To buy Novice Smuggler you would need AP like Politician to show your experiance and contact abilties. Smuggler might even require more AP than Politician if it is so well fleshed out. The Tree then would progress through the new Revamped Profession. This could allow for new Professions to branch from Smuggler like a form of Pirate or Crime Boss.
Just wondered if this had come up. Please post links to such discussions if you know of any. I also would like your thoughts on this subject. Would this work for balance in the current system?
Where exactly is this from? The only input I've seen is tha from GM, and that was all developmental stuff that has been pushed aside til he's done with JTL polishing and whatever else they assign him to next. I think the reason nobody is posting is because it's a little confusing as to where it came from.
As far as discussing it, making it AP linkedIMO would make it too easy to be a smuggler. If they were to do this, it means that they want everyone to be a smuggler because of JTL.
Zane
SmugglinZane wrote:
JYCowboy wrote:
Howdy Fellow Smugglers,
I am sure this has been discussed before but, as I understand, that the PistolBranch is to be removed from our progress what will be our requirement? In many ways, Unarmed could be dropped from our requirements to. I know that Dirty Infighting is still part of the mix but what else? I use to think Business was a good requirement from Artisan. I soon came to understand that some Smugglers could be real bad at business. One fact is true for all smugglers is previous experiance, Street smart. Some have liken us to Thieves and Con-Men. In thought, if that is true then we are a profession not unlike the Politician. Sounds like a joke but we are unrelated to any other profession. In D&D, Thieves(Rouges) are thier own profession. It made sence to me, that we should have our own tree not dependant on other Combat Professions. To buy Novice Smuggler you would need AP like Politician to show your experiance and contact abilties. Smuggler might even require more AP than Politician if it is so well fleshed out. The Tree then would progress through the new Revamped Profession. This could allow for new Professions to branch from Smuggler like a form of Pirate or Crime Boss.
Just wondered if this had come up. Please post links to such discussions if you know of any. I also would like your thoughts on this subject. Would this work for balance in the current system?
Where exactly is this from? The only input I've seen is tha from GM, and that was all developmental stuff that has been pushed aside til he's done with JTL polishing and whatever else they assign him to next. I think the reason nobody is posting is because it's a little confusing as to where it came from.
As far as discussing it, making it AP linkedIMO would make it too easy to be a smuggler. If they were to do this, it means that they want everyone to be a smuggler because of JTL.
Zane
Where is this from? Just my examination. Im sorry for any confusionon that. I, like you, hope we get attention for our long wait on the Revamp. I wanted to discuss the role of the Smuggler in the scope of all the profession in game. Should we be dependent on another profession to gain our skills? I understand why a Commando needs Master Marksman and Unarmed. I just dont see why Smuggler is a hybrid to other profession once the new ideas are accepted into the revamp. We could have many skills that mirror other professions but they are not the same. (Ex. the Henchman Recruit idea that is like CH). We are The Underworld Profession in game and not anyone else.
Your right on AP. I thought to make Smuggler cost the full 1240 pool but that is not enough. It could be, in this idea, a Combat XP cost that is not insane in value but reasonable that a New Player would not just jump in. What is the max pool of Combat XP for a Tier 4 Range Support? I am aware of the C12 method of gaining xp but not all are and that will change with CU cutting buffs down. What do you feel?
SmugglinZane wrote:
As long as we keep some combat skills, we should have some sort of combat prereq. I think we should have a few combat skills that represent the "shadiness" of a smuggler, so I don't mind the pistol thing. If they actually made the changes that a lot of people want to the rest of the profession, then it would probably be more feasible to need business instead of unarmed (unless we actually get a use for that unarmed skill). Just my opinion though.
I do think we should need or be encouraged to interact with other players beyond slicing... if we actually get to smuggle, and they do something about the contraband. A smuggler is not a combat tank, he's not a crafter, he's a slick, shifty, sneaky SOB. (hehe, anyone notice how close SOE is to SOB?) If you ain't slick, you ain't gonna be able to smuggle much.
Zane
JYCowboy wrote:
SmugglinZane wrote:
As long as we keep some combat skills, we should have some sort of combat prereq. I think we should have a few combat skills that represent the "shadiness" of a smuggler, so I don't mind the pistol thing. If they actually made the changes that a lot of people want to the rest of the profession, then it would probably be more feasible to need business instead of unarmed (unless we actually get a use for that unarmed skill). Just my opinion though.
I do think we should need or be encouraged to interact with other players beyond slicing... if we actually get to smuggle, and they do something about the contraband. A smuggler is not a combat tank, he's not a crafter, he's a slick, shifty, sneaky SOB. (hehe, anyone notice how close SOE is to SOB?) If you ain't slick, you ain't gonna be able to smuggle much.
Zane
Think in terms of that Slick Smuggler talking his way through the Pearly Gates. He does it with no weapon in hand. There are some very nice ideas on our revamp but most dont seem to change our Combat Specials. I agree that we should have some extra defensive bonuses or specials to "slip away." That said, having the profession Gated on Combat XP makes the player take up a combat profession to gain access to Smuggler. The reason that Pistol Requirement was being considered to be dropped is that some smugglers dont use pistols at all. The specials, in Smuggler,might have to be used for all ranged weapons along with some Melee advantages. This is all dependent on if we have Specials after the CU. The CU is going to break some players and make others. I have no doubt on that. As it stands, the Combat Smuggler has been a support role for many.
Your Opinion is sound, Zane, and welcome.
Even the slick smuggler won't be able to talk his way out of everything, at which point, smoke em if ya got em! 
Zane
Albve wrote:
I think that you have to keep pistols as a requirement. Some sort of basic fighting skill anyway. Maybethey make it so that a player can qualify for smuggler with either unarmed 4 or pistols 4. I would like that. Even though a smuggler isn't a "combat profession", you still have to fight your way out of a sleazy bar once in a while.
Besides, ifthey drop all of the skill requirements for smuggler, that would drop it to a basic profession. Then someone could get last ditch with only 58 skill points spent (pistols 1-4, DF 1-4), as opposed to 78 (unarmed 1-4, pistols 1-4, and DF 1-4). Really, you could get a decent last ditch for only 44 points (DF 1-4 and pistols 1). There is no way the game developers will let smugglers get a 700+ damage special move for 44 points.
As for the Pistol Requirement see my answer to Zane, above.
Smuggler is Due the Revamp (long in coming but true). Instead of dependant on Unarmed 4 OR Pistols 4 make Smuggler dependant on a level of Combat XP that is aquired with the smugglers choice of weapon. As for the skill points, 1.The Combat Upgrade is going to greatly affect howour specials work. 2.With this change it makes avaible other Underworld Profession Ideas such as Pirates, Crime Lords and Information Trafficers and still have a Elite Combat Profession. You are very correct on the 700+ Damage Special being limited but I believe the Pros/Cons of the New Smuggler and a stiff XP requirement would help gate the access to such a special. Dont forget that that special will be limited with the CU.
Smuggler a basic Profession? Is Politician a basic profession? Politician is not attractive as combat goes and does not have the skills a Smuggler has but it is very important in its role. Your point is very good though as we dont want any everyone being a Smuggler with little cost.
JYCowboy wrote:
Smuggler a basic Profession? Is Politician a basic profession? Politician is not attractive as combat goes and does not have the skills a Smuggler has but it is very important in its role. Your point is very good though as we dont want any everyone being a Smuggler with little cost.
Well, technically, yes politician isa basic profession. Smuggler is a hybrid profession as it stands now. SOE clasifies all professions as elite, hybrid, or basic. If smuggler didn't have any prerequisites then, by default, it would become a basic profession. It's not the complexity of the profession, it's the amount of skill points involved in obtaining it. For instance, the scout profession can do many things, but it's listed as a basic profession. Any basic profession will probably have lesser combat moves than any elite/hybrid profession. That just seems to be the way they do things.
I would definitelyagree to having the prereqs as being 1-4 of any combat skill of your choice and probably the merchant tree of artisan. I'm not real convinced that swordsmen, pikemen, and fencers should even be in STAR Wars, but that's for another forum and another day. (Sorry to those of you who are swordsmen, pikemen, or fencers, I just don't think those professions are very "starwarsy").
Don't get me wrong, I didn't pick up smuggler for the combat. If we actually got to smuggle I don't think you would see me pull out the DE-10 very much. However, I get bored with slicing and spicing for 1337 d00ds real quick... I need to go out and kill stuff. And I still think that any smuggler worth his salt can bloody a nose to "persuade" someone into seeing it his way.
but ah well) So if they do change the system to allow dynamic prereqs, I hope the combat prereq of Smuggler do not become "any weapon tree". Maybe a compromise between the actual "no choice" and a complete "whatever weapon you want" wich would open the door to some...weird combo. Allowing dynamic prereqs WOULD be great. It would allow for even more diverse templates, less "cookie cutter" syndrome. But I can see one problem with that, other proffesions will want some freedom in their own prereq too and then you end up facing some kind of revamps on ALL proffessions.
Message Edited by LaughingWolf on 11-18-2004 06:31 PM
Message Edited by JYCowboy on 11-19-2004 09:12 AM