Smuggler Archive
Thread: Smugglers & Hybrid Elite Prerequisite Schema
Squad Leader -- 0004 Marksman (Ranged Support IV) + 0004 Scout (Survival IV)
Ranger -- 0040 Marksman (Carbines IV) + 4000 Scout (Exploration IV)
Bounty Hunter -- 0004 Marksman (Ranged Support IV) + 4000 Scout (Exploration IV)
*Commando -- 0004 Marksman (Ranged Support IV) + 0400 Scout (Trapping IV)
*Smuggler -- 0400 Marksman (Pistols IV) + 0004 Scout (Survival IV)
I have done the number-crunching. If you look at the schema I have outlined closely, you can see where this falls in line with everything that the development team has been putting into place since the Combat Upgrade. The only two hybrid elites that get funneled into a particular Marksman elite are Smuggler and Ranger, which is Pistoleer and Carbineer respectively. The rest are appropriately differentiated. Also, by removing Brawler prerequisites from Commando and Smuggler, it lightens the load and problems of making these classes viable for both melee and ranged combat - instead focusing on ranged combat, which has the added bonus of being more in line with the "Star Wars" theme. In addition being able to switch between melee and ranged absolutely adds nothing to the game and obviously to be effective most players will specialize in one or the other. Hence hybrid elites who encompass both are something that should have been left behind with the Combat Upgrade.
The schema was drafted to offer a balanced system of template customization that is in line with the current Combat Upgrade engine. There are also particularly thematic template possibilities within this schema, such as any combination of Smuggler and Squad Leader (Han Solo and Lando Calrissian), Commando and Bounty Hunter (Boba Fett), Ranger and Bounty Hunter (Zam Wessel), Commando and Squad Leader (ARC Trooper), etc.
Please provide feedback here. No schema will satisfy everyone's desire. For instance the new prerequisites for Ranger are not exactly the most popular to the old Rangers who do not understand that it is simply being moved to Scout. The key point is that Ranger is no longer a Scout Elite, not anymore than Bounty Hunter is. Ranger and Scout must be disassociated. To continue the Pre-Revamp Ranger playstyle, one simply must have Master Scout and hence will have an additional 63 skill points to play with, in addition to not having to take up the Carbines IV line. One must also consider that under the planned Ranger Revamp, attempting to be a Master Rifleman, Master Ranger is akin to attempt to be a Master Rifleman, Master Smuggler. You lose SP in the translation. To continue your playstyle Pre-Revamp, you simply go Master Scout, Master Rifleman.
I think you did read it correctly, because it is a great idea. 
However, any melee Smugglers would be unhappy, as now they have 29 SP sink. The fact is, Smuggler already is geared toward being a /ranged/ hybrid elite.
And seriously, what is the point of being both melee and ranged anyhow? Just think about how many times the situation really occurs where this would be a viable option. Then there is the simple reality that you /can't/ be good with both melee and ranged equally, with the 250 SP cap you must choose to specialize in either one or the other.
So, logically, the best way is to integrate Smuggler with the rest of the hybrid elites and focus on its ranged aspects.
Can't say I'm really in favor of replacing it with scout, though. I'll have to think about it. I think Artisan 0040 might be good if they are serious about the changes with selling contraband. If smugglers are going to be the only people who can sell sliced gear and spices, then it makes sense we can place vendors.
Smugglers wouldn't use Survival IV. No. Nor would Squad Leader, by the way.
It's just an SP sink, doesn't matter where.
But by placing that SP sink within Scout, you as Smugglers have better access to the other hybrid elites out there at the same time.
Sort of a win-win. Plus the Squad Leader/Smuggler connection I think is a good one, if you're going to go into the realm of Star Wars lore.
Smuggler gives bonuses to Unarmed, which help out as a TKM, and those saying that Crowd Control and Melee are disassociated, really need to play with Smuggler/TKM with some Commando. Your crowd control is not permanent, but you can take the beating while tanking. The Smuggler compliments TKM in tons of ways, and I'd hate to see the mix of CC and Tank go by the wayside.
Also the current (as in when the Ranger Revamp hits) gives Riflemen the same situation as Pikeman. Both classes are extremely unique (Stealth and High Damage for Rifles, and Area Attacks and Debuffs for Pike) but also share few pre-reqs with anything. While Pistols leads into its elite and Smuggler, and Carbs with Ranger, Rifles is a bit of a sink for hybrids, but has unique properties that make it worth it.
You also forgot about Combat Medic, would you shift it from Ranged Support over to Scout?
Having the Hybrids rely on Scout as a base doesn't really make sense for many of them, and devalues Scout almost like Ranged Support is devalued. A solid and important Novice profession would become simply a prereq sink for all the Hybrids.
Considering Scout will be taking on the role of a current Elite profession in terms of harvesting creatures (while losing its Terrain Negotiation) and creature/outdoors-focused gameplay, you really cannot make Scout the end-all be-all Hybrid prereq profession.
As someone with two Hybrid professions, it is a pain not being able to get some Medic, or being limited to some Pistoleer or Commando as other parts, but that's the trade off.
Smuggler is the union of a gunner and a brawler into a cheap-shotting, contraband running, fast talking Smuggler. We are not at one with nature.
CalArsou wrote:
Considering I played Smuggler/TKM for a long while (and will probably go back to it) this doesn't really make much sense.
Smuggler gives bonuses to Unarmed, which help out as a TKM, and those saying that Crowd Control and Melee are disassociated, really need to play with Smuggler/TKM with some Commando. Your crowd control is not permanent, but you can take the beating while tanking. The Smuggler compliments TKM in tons of ways, and I'd hate to see the mix of CC and Tank go by the wayside.
Also the current (as in when the Ranger Revamp hits) gives Riflemen the same situation as Pikeman. Both classes are extremely unique (Stealth and High Damage for Rifles, and Area Attacks and Debuffs for Pike) but also share few pre-reqs with anything. While Pistols leads into its elite and Smuggler, and Carbs with Ranger, Rifles is a bit of a sink for hybrids, but has unique properties that make it worth it.
You also forgot about Combat Medic, would you shift it from Ranged Support over to Scout?
Having the Hybrids rely on Scout as a base doesn't really make sense for many of them, and devalues Scout almost like Ranged Support is devalued. A solid and important Novice profession would become simply a prereq sink for all the Hybrids.
Considering Scout will be taking on the role of a current Elite profession in terms of harvesting creatures (while losing its Terrain Negotiation) and creature/outdoors-focused gameplay, you really cannot make Scout the end-all be-all Hybrid prereq profession.
As someone with two Hybrid professions, it is a pain not being able to get some Medic, or being limited to some Pistoleer or Commando as other parts, but that's the trade off.
Smuggler is the union of a gunner and a brawler into a cheap-shotting, contraband running, fast talking Smuggler. We are not at one with nature.
Aendracon wrote:
Like the OP said: no change will be popular with everyone. Switching from brawler to scout sure hurts the TKAs, but will greatly benefit the BHs at the same time. You can see in my sig which combo I prefer. Personally, to me the brawler line is a pure sp sink. Simple as that. Things might be different if I could use COB while holding a pistol, but currently equipping/unequipping in mid combat is a sure way to get killed imo. What I would like to see isa prerequisite scheme like "ranged support +anothermarksman line of your choice". Or something like the way FS is handled. IMO diversity = more fun for everyone!
On a sidenote, even as a MSmuggler/MBH you can still have 2xxx medic, which is not great but still helps.
Finally, why would I want to punch someone in the face when I can just shoot him? I am not a wookiee!
Being a Master Smuggler/Master Pistoleer and TKA 4400.. I will miss the extra defense and meditation.. but unarmed is pretty much usless for us right now as none of our smuggler abilities can be used with unarmed skills. We get minor unarmed bonuses but you can attain those from other melee professions if you want to dable.
Just becuase smuggler has some skills in scout doesn't make them a tree hugger. They just know how to survive.. after all scout is sort of a recon class... and all the marksmen professions can benifit from it.
Also think for commando's it might make sense for the prereq be Rifles (4000 marksmen), half their weapons are long range and rifles, so it sort of does seem to go together.
so you have...
Smugglers with Pistols
Rangers with Carbines
Commando's with Rifles
Bounty Hunters... well they have it all..
who knows maybe all these changes are being planned... we'll just have to see =D
Message Edited by Samoflan on 11-05-2005 09:27 AM
Iawo wrote:
Oh, and by the way, why bother with medic 2000 when you can get novice commando and novice medic instead? Lagger pistols are loads of fun.
Erm... as a matter of fact, it was YOU who gave me the idea with medic in the first place. 
As for novice commando... nah, I prefer some increased healing. Its weak enough already.