Smuggler Archive

Thread: Smugglers & Hybrid Elite Prerequisite Schema

mskroch
Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:33 am
#14

Love your idea; I would suggest giving BH the Hunting column and SMuggler's the Exploration column. Seems to make a bit more sense and give a complete distribution of the scout columns.


I would love to see this implemented, but have low hopes



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JarekTalram
Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:03 pm
#15



MohdriDarkstar wrote:

Squad Leader -- 0004 Marksman (Ranged Support IV) + 0004 Scout (Survival IV)
Ranger -- 0040 Marksman (Carbines IV) + 4000 Scout (Exploration IV)
Bounty Hunter -- 0004 Marksman (Ranged Support IV) + 4000 Scout (Exploration IV)
*Commando -- 0004 Marksman (Ranged Support IV) + 0400 Scout (Trapping IV)
*Smuggler -- 0400 Marksman (Pistols IV) + 0004 Scout (Survival IV)

I have done the number-crunching. If you look at the schema I have outlined closely, you can see where this falls in line with everything that the development team has been putting into place since the Combat Upgrade. The only two hybrid elites that get funneled into a particular Marksman elite are Smuggler and Ranger, which is Pistoleer and Carbineer respectively. The rest are appropriately differentiated. Also, by removing Brawler prerequisites from Commando and Smuggler, it lightens the load and problems of making these classes viable for both melee and ranged combat - instead focusing on ranged combat, which has the added bonus of being more in line with the "Star Wars" theme. In addition being able to switch between melee and ranged absolutely adds nothing to the game and obviously to be effective most players will specialize in one or the other. Hence hybrid elites who encompass both are something that should have been left behind with the Combat Upgrade.

The schema was drafted to offer a balanced system of template customization that is in line with the current Combat Upgrade engine. There are also particularly thematic template possibilities within this schema, such as any combination of Smuggler and Squad Leader (Han Solo and Lando Calrissian), Commando and Bounty Hunter (Boba Fett), Ranger and Bounty Hunter (Zam Wessel), Commando and Squad Leader (ARC Trooper), etc.

Please provide feedback here. No schema will satisfy everyone's desire. For instance the new prerequisites for Ranger are not exactly the most popular to the old Rangers who do not understand that it is simply being moved to Scout. The key point is that Ranger is no longer a Scout Elite, not anymore than Bounty Hunter is. Ranger and Scout must be disassociated. To continue the Pre-Revamp Ranger playstyle, one simply must have Master Scout and hence will have an additional 63 skill points to play with, in addition to not having to take up the Carbines IV line. One must also consider that under the planned Ranger Revamp, attempting to be a Master Rifleman, Master Ranger is akin to attempt to be a Master Rifleman, Master Smuggler. You lose SP in the translation. To continue your playstyle Pre-Revamp, you simply go Master Scout, Master Rifleman.






Okay why in the world would you make Scout x4xx a requirement of Commando. It would make more sense to make it just support and rifle line from marksman. Or if you wanted scout make it exploration like BH. (Which is a bad idea for other reasons).
MohdriDarkstar
Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:06 pm
#16

Because hybrid elites have an SP sink of 58 SPs. Placing two lines within the same tree as the prerequisite skills reduces the SP to 43 SP. So, for Commando, Smuggler, Bounty Hunter, Squad Leader, and now Ranger... 58 SP. One line from two different trees. Commando having Trapping IV and Ranged Support IV makes it so that it is differentiated from Bounty Hunter and Ranger, which both already share the Exploration IV line (Ranger is planned to.) Note, if you did have it in Exploration IV, then you could stack two hybrid elites while only spending 58 SP, whereas under my system stacking two hybrid elites always costs 72 SP (58 + 14) making it fair.

Alternatively, one could place the second Commandoprereq (other than Ranged Support IV) in Hunting IV to avoid being stacked with Ranger and Bounty Hunter by having the Exploration IV line or with Squad Leader by being in the Survival IV line. It'd be either Hunting or Trapping though, not the other two.

Message Edited by MohdriDarkstar on 09-30-2005 04:10 PM

MohdriDarkstar
Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:17 pm
#17

Someone mentioned something about Combat Medic earlier.


Hah.


No, you wouldn't move Combat Medic over to Scout.


Ranged Support IV + Ranged Healing IV = What?


58 SP.


Malcolm_CaKre
Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:19 pm
#18

A change is in order sure. But instead of Scout (woodsy outdoorsmen, harvesting hides, I just don't see it...), let me make two suggestions:


On the one hand, we could get a useful line of Medic. We're supposed to be good at the chemistry for our Spice skills (even if we eventually are only delivering it, and not making it), and the 'Falcon was very well equipped with a med bay. And Han even improvised some lifesaving skills to keep the farmboy alive.


On the other hand, how about we keep the unarmed, but somewhere in the Smuggler tree of fighting, we get some better specials that follow the unarmed line of thinking: A pistol strike that's worth having, and a follow on to /center, say, /scoundrelsLuck, that gives us a COB effect but can be done while holding a ranged weapon.


I'm really not in favor of any prerequisites that don't grant CL, because CL is so all-important now, and that would leave us with a lot smaller buffer around CL80.



mal

MohdriDarkstar
Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:27 pm
#19


By placing the second Smuggler prerequisite in Scout, you no less have a chance of reaching CL80 than a Bounty Hunter.


But hey, if they want to make it so that Commando and Smuggler can both _viably_ make use of certain special abilities and keep them within the Brawler framework, than more power to them.


It just pretty much means you can't have as viable a combo with the other hybrids as the Squad Leader, Bounty Hunter, and Ranger will have. Which would be accomplished, however, if Scout were to be taken up as a prereq instead of Brawler.


Now, if you're going to associate those woodsy-outdoorsy type things with a game mechanic, than not much elsemakes sense as far as the other professions are concerned. Maybe a Bounty Hunter is woodsy-outdoorsy, but then again maybe not if they largely deal with urban environments and humanoid targets? Then, you know, there is the Squad Leader. Why would he know all about camping?


I don't think "roleplaying" should enter into the equation of decision-making, but that's my personal belief. Even if I had to make an argument based on theme, it could easily be said that, yes, a Smuggler would by necessity know how to "survive" in the wild, having spent manydays out on the run in strange worlds and in different environments. Smuggler = profiteer, cheat, scoundrel. Not bad mutha' bar-room brawler (per se.)


Message Edited by MohdriDarkstar on 09-30-2005 04:29 PM

KenjiTokugawa
Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:45 pm
#20

About the only player I can think of who might actually benefit from the pre-req change you are describing is a smuggler +BH/SL/CH. These are the only comboswould not have to pick up novice brawler to get smuggler. That's 15 extra SPs that can be spent somewhere else. Every other smuggler looks like theywould betrading a marginally useful line of brawler for nothing in return.



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KobyiAshiMaru
Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:01 pm
#21

I agree, brawler is nearly useless to a Smuggler, but if Han is our model then there is a skill that you are all missing. Yes there was a scene where he built a camp, and yes he was able to stabilize Luke's wounds in that same scene, and yes he was capable of holding his own in a barfight.



First and foremost, even ahead of being an excellent marksman and a master pilot, he was "quite a mercenary". He was a hustler, a huckster, a trafficker, a wheeler and a dealer. He was a shrew, calculating, cagey,and conniving BUSINESSMAN.


I would much rather have artisan 0040 than anything from the scout tree.





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KaiRan
Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:07 pm
#22

Personally, I wouldnt mind loosing Brawler, simply because thats quite a few SP I simply do not use at all... CoB aside.


Now, mind you, I say this with more than a hint of selfishness. Make it Scout, and as a M Smuggler / M Pistoleer / BH 0040, I gain 15 SP to play with!


However, if I were to choose between moving the prerequisite away from Brawler into anything at all, -or- adding some kind of Unarmed benifit to the Smuggler line in addition to the current Ranged skills, I'd prefer to see up-close unarmed attacks in the Smuggler tree. Stylisticly, I agree with those who say "dirty brawling"is all part of the "style" of the Scoundrels we really are.


Basically, I wouldnt complain if the were to come true, but I'd prefer to see that spice line we're loosing become an unarmed line, and have all these proposed smuggling abuilities fall into Underworld.


But thats hust me.



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Moonkat
Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:20 pm
#23

I'm going to go a little out on a limb, butwhat if0400 Marksman and a Freelance Pilot masterywerethe prereqs to Smuggler?



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Iawo
Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:26 pm
#24






Moonkat wrote:

I'm going to go a little out on a limb, butwhat if0400 Marksman and a Freelance Pilot masterywerethe prereqs to Smuggler?





Horrible idea... what about all the Master Rebel or Imperial pilots?



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Moonkat
Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:29 pm
#25


Well, that's kind of getting into the ideology of Star Wars.A smuggler doesn't care about political ideology, and a good Citizen would never be a pirate. It doesn't interfere with ground faction at all to be a Freelancer.

Message Edited by Moonkat on 10-01-2005 08:30 PM



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talansen
Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:33 pm
#26






Moonkat wrote:


Well, that's kind of getting into the ideology of Star Wars.A smuggler doesn't care about political ideology, and a good Citizen would never be a pirate. It doesn't interfere with ground faction at all to be a Freelancer.

Message Edited by Moonkat on 10-01-2005 08:30 PM




Not actually true..at least in regards to the movies. Han Solo was a rebel pilot. A reluctant one, but a rebel pilot none the less.



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