Smuggler Archive
Thread: Smuggler CU Conversion thread
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WesBelden
Sat Apr 16, 2005 5:10 pm
#1
At the suggestion of Ragnaat, I'm asking you all if possible to give focused feedback on the conversion of your weapons and any other armour/equipment etc. I'd like to see constructive critism, bugs and if appropriate, discussion, but at all times, please try to keep things on topic and on track.
If you want to take off on a tangent, please post a new thread to do so.
Well, with that out of the way, please get posting! 
Zeon_Zaku
Sat Apr 16, 2005 5:23 pm
#2
I can't tell the stats on most of my weapons, only a few of my heavy weapons (two of them). On all my pistols that stats have disappeared and only shows that they were modified by a Smuggler. 
Ragnaat
Sat Apr 16, 2005 5:37 pm
#3
Well, the reason I suggested this thread was so that we could get data together on multiple conversions so that we could see how pattersn were forming, where bugs that you might not catch by just looking at your gun or two are, or places where the conversion numbers just don't jive.
Since PM'ing Wes i've learned a few things about weapons...
* There seem to be clear limits on damage and speed that we seem to be bumping up against far too often (eg, its too easy to reach "best").
* Speed just feels like its weighted more then damage... speed slice pre CU vs. damage slice pre CU the former seems to get the better deal, maybe due to that first item
* Powerups on weapons during the conversion are really screwing things up (think the old pup slicing exploit, only it was the devs fault)
* There are some fixed stats, which tend to bother me cause they make things like scopes or HAM experimentation on weps pre CU just don't have any impact at all on how good the wep is post conversion.
Oh, and this tidbit...
so maybe we can get some gun stats in here and see where the limits are, what values are getting pused the wrong way, what weapons got dumped on (see bowcasters), etc.
Since PM'ing Wes i've learned a few things about weapons...
* There seem to be clear limits on damage and speed that we seem to be bumping up against far too often (eg, its too easy to reach "best").
* Speed just feels like its weighted more then damage... speed slice pre CU vs. damage slice pre CU the former seems to get the better deal, maybe due to that first item
* Powerups on weapons during the conversion are really screwing things up (think the old pup slicing exploit, only it was the devs fault)
* There are some fixed stats, which tend to bother me cause they make things like scopes or HAM experimentation on weps pre CU just don't have any impact at all on how good the wep is post conversion.
Oh, and this tidbit...
AviStetto wrote:
Thank you for the detailed report.Prior to conversion, a high-end VK would do around 50-200 damage and had a speed less than 2.0.After conversion, a high-end VK should do around 210-425 damage with a speed less than 3.25.Prior to conversion all of those weapons listed had a very high wound chance.After conversion, they were all converted to the max wound chance for a VK of 29.The Special Attack Cost value is a set value based on the weapon type (for VK it's 122).Range and Accuracy are also set based on weapon type.Of course, these numbers are still subject to tweaking.-Avi Stetto
so maybe we can get some gun stats in here and see where the limits are, what values are getting pused the wrong way, what weapons got dumped on (see bowcasters), etc.
Zeon_Zaku
Sat Apr 16, 2005 5:49 pm
#4
I can't tell the stats on most of my weapons, only a few of my heavy weapons (two of them). On all my pistols that stats have disappeared and only shows that they were modified by a Smuggler.
SpinningCloud
Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:11 pm
#5
Is there a document stating how a sliced and PUPed weapon will be converted?
Ragnaat
Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:56 am
#6
No, no document, but from the looks of the conversion #s and the ability to re-pup something post CU its simply a bug and in order for the process to make sense the weapon should be converted with their base un-pup'd stats. (however, suggestion to all on live servers... get some speed sliced weps and put some speed powerups on the just in case.. unfortunately TC was pulled down before i could take any advantage of hints like this)
ok... let me grab some weapon stats for you... some of the numbers are odd mostly because of the pup bug, but also because of the ease of hitting the upper or lower bounds...
FWG5s - most sliced, some prenerf, unpuped stats listed (tho some had pups on em.. like the 4th one)
Q for smugglers: anyone have any enhanced FWG5s.. not sure i'm hitting the upper/max damage limit on these and curious to see what that is. Also, anyone a WS and want to craft a post-CU FWG5 fro mthe ground up and report stats?
VKs - all sliced, unpuped stats listed (tho some had pups on em)
I'll post some random guns as I get them, but the'll probably mostly be well sliced crafted gun stats.... please post yours two if you have chars on the cnverted servers... again, the idea is to see where things are going wrong or where ranges need to be shifted
ok... let me grab some weapon stats for you... some of the numbers are odd mostly because of the pup bug, but also because of the ease of hitting the upper or lower bounds...
FWG5s - most sliced, some prenerf, unpuped stats listed (tho some had pups on em.. like the 4th one)
Speed (Old) 1.9 1.8 1.8 1.4 1.7 1.8
Speed (New) 2.48 2.45 2.45 2.25 2.43 2.44
Min Damage (Old) 75 70 61 63 76 79
Max Damage (Old) 241 241 208 175 264 270
Min Damage (New) 416 419 420 418 417 418
Max Damage (New) 781 800 777 757 799 806
Base DPS (New) 240.94 248.67 244.18 260.89 250.02 251.06
Wound (Old) 18.1 18.20 18.2 21.4 18.40 18.40
Wound (New) 13 13 13 13 13 13
Range (Old) 23 21 21 40 25 25
Health (Old) 11 11 11 11 11 11
Action (Old) 26 36 36 35 34 36
Mind (Old) 18 18 18 18 17 18
SAC (New) 84 84 84 84 84 84
Q for smugglers: anyone have any enhanced FWG5s.. not sure i'm hitting the upper/max damage limit on these and curious to see what that is. Also, anyone a WS and want to craft a post-CU FWG5 fro mthe ground up and report stats?
VKs - all sliced, unpuped stats listed (tho some had pups on em)
Speed (Old) 2.3 2.2 1.9 1.7 2.2 2.6
Speed (New) 3.36 3.32 3.22 3.1 3.33 3.34
Min Damage (Old) 44 47 34 31 49 42
Max Damage (Old) 203 182 119 126 195 154
Min Damage (New) 214 213 213 213 215 214
Max Damage (New) 431 420 401 398 431 419
Base DPS (New) 95.95 95.24 95.45 98.29 97.1 94.75
Wound (Old) 37.1 38.2 31.5 37 37.7 33.2
Wound (New) 29 29 29 29 29 29
Range (Old) 10 11 11 10 19 11
Health (Old) 37 35 22 39 39 24
Action (Old) 54 53 34 55 55 37
Mind (Old) 39 35 22 38 39 24
SAC (New) 122 122 122 122 122 122
I'll post some random guns as I get them, but the'll probably mostly be well sliced crafted gun stats.... please post yours two if you have chars on the cnverted servers... again, the idea is to see where things are going wrong or where ranges need to be shifted
Ragnaat
Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:34 am
#7
Here are a few more guns... the stats in parenths are for weps that were pup'd pre conversion
.. it shows pup'd value (base value)
.. it shows pup'd value (base value)
Scout Scout Dx2 Dx2 Dx2
Speed (Old) 1.8 1.3 1.2 (1.7) 2 2.3
Speed (New) 2.45 2.32 2.3 2.5 2.55
Min Damage (Old) 101 91 (79) 114 (104) 105 117
Max Damage (Old) 197 203 (154) 161 166 187
Min Damage (New) 84 83 430 426 414
Max Damage (New) 165 165 826 825 797
Base DPS (Old) 82.78 113 (89) 114 (78) 67.75 66.09
Base DPS (New) 50.62 53.36 273.42 249.93 237.09
Wound (Old) 20.5 20.5 24.3 (23.1) 53.1 18.4
Wound (New) 10 10 18 18 18
Range (Old) 26 26 27 37 -27
Health (Old) 11 11 23 41 23
Action (Old) 22 22 41 60 42
Mind (Old) 11 11 15 33 15
SAC (New) 84 84 84 84 84
Message Edited by Ragnaat on 04-17-2005 03:35 PM
Redleg13
Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:11 am
#9
I was able to get on and get the template built and try some things. Looking to find a fighting PvE comparison, I went to Fort Tusken. The observer (Level 225) was guarding both ends of the tunnel and no one could get past time- 1 shot incap and no room to do manuevers or stack players to try to attack and could not bait him out. However, using both a DX2 and a Renagade (SIC) pistol I could have handled the other Tuskens. Did work out some of the specials with another player, PvP. We were well match Pistol/Smuggler verse TK/DOC except he could heal so much faster and recover from most of my specials so he got me most of the time. Docs will have a role to play, but it will be very different-they are fighters-looks like some of the healers in other games. Smugglers I am unsure of, the new skills and mods for fighting are interesting, but confusing. You have so many options and most do very little damage. Last Ditch now just gets you incapped and is fairly useless, my body shot was the most useful attack on anything.(I moved off to the Tusken Bunker looking for comparison of pre and post CU PvE). The outside Tuskens were all normal so a level 22 or 38s the ones inside were all level 1 with HAM out of reach. Anything you do with combat is more like grinding than playing. No action just stand there and hammer away at the target. If no content is provide this will really bore folks quicker than 10 patrol missions at the village. I am going to do some solo questing, but it looks like little will change other than those painful and confusing ICONs and grinding away. You would think that a level 80 would do a level 22 in a couple of shots, but right now it takes at least 8 or 10. With the slower firing weapons that takes away. I am going to try slice and see what that does or look for some power ups. However, a crafter friend did some that would have pre CURB been good, actually causes the weapons to be slower, do less damage and decay faster. I asked him to document this since it must be a mistake.
Unfortunately, the CURB seems to be different, but taken the speed out of the game. Will continue to do sometesting, but have other goals to get ready for this to see if the game will be worth playing post CURB.
Recommendation: Fix the ICONs on the tool bar and publish what they do somewhere. That frustration is something I don't want.
SpinningCloud
Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:47 am
#10
I still don't understand HOW I'm suppose to figure out how my weapons will convert.
Someone want to explain it to me so I can do my part in testing this?
Karzon_X
Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:53 am
#11
Well my nice krayted DL44 turned into This
Does this count?
looks kinda funky... I also have a WS so I'm not a fan of taking our ability to customize the weapon's appearance...
But like it wasstated before, there seems to be a soft cap on weapon damages...
All that time spent getting the components for my DE-10, and it's actually worse than an unkrayted republic blaster that i have...
The conversion just seems to be a bit random... In mY WS shop I had some pretty terrible scythes, one was about 100 pts damage ;ess than the other pre conversion, post conversion they were about the same
SpinningCloud
Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:59 am
#12
If they do THAT to my krayt DL44 I willdeficate the proverbial brick!!
And HOW do you test these conversions? Please tell me, I'm dying to help test this.
SpinningCloud
Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:07 pm
#13
Was happy with all the conversions EXCEPT my new krayt DL44 with barrel and scope.
Before:
Speed 1.7
Damage 71-260
After:
Speed 2.42/1.54
Damage 66-146
Also noticed that PUPs are effectively useless...at least the converted ones. Mostly they don't help the weapon in the slightest. In one instance actually decreased the DPS. Now perhaps that's because I tried them out on very high level weapons and maybe I was hitting the weapon max?
Anyway, PUPs are one less thing to spend credits on... unless you're a crafter
unless you're a crafter
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