Smuggler Archive
Thread: Is this indeed the Feast of Electricnomad?
‘These wounds I had on Electricnomad’s day’.
Oh, how prophetic good old Fishbrains was...for I think we will indeed get scars on next Tuesday, which I think might rightly be called the Feast of Electricnomad for on that day we will suffer a new slicing system that not only does NOT make being a master what we all thought it should, it will be worse. Unlike the English at Agincourt, from which the speech Fishy adapted his prophecy, I don't think we will win.
I ask you all too look closely at the new system and look beyond the words and ask yourself, what does it really do to make the title Master Smuggler worth all the hard work we put into it. In every other profession, being a master means something, but in this system it won't be the Master Smuggler they will be looking for, it will be the smuggler who is lucky enough to have a group that can camp the DWB. Unless you have these special components, being a Master means little. A 0400 smuggler/lootcamper will be more important than you. I predict in the end, these places will be as camped as Lord Nyax and any real smuggler, who has more to do than spend all their time camped in a dungeon (like smuggling and running from the Law), will be left out in the cold...granted a cold we know all too well, but thought we were about to be let out of by this new revamp.
I ask you, what does camping a dungeon have to do with being a smuggler? Shouldn't our abilities, especially one unique to our profession, be based on something...say smuggler-related? And yet it isn't...instead of giving us the slicing game they said they were working on, they claim it won't work so they are going with plan B. I'm sorry, but I don't think you need to read too far between the lines to see what's really going on.
They promised us a revamp...they said they were working on a revamp, they even teased us with this little slicing game, which I honestly think was complete fiction they made up just to appease us when in fact they weren't working on it at all. If they had indeed been working on the system like they claim, they would be less willing to completely abandon it at the last minute and go with Plan B.
Let's look at Plan B....all it is is a two-bit lazy way out that has NOTHING to do with smuggling, it is merely the easiest way out of a jam they had got into after years of lies and deceit, when they weren't actually working on it. It stinks of it, I know. I am quite familiar with this routine, in fact, I was a master of it when I was in college. Nearly every term paper I wrote was like this, so I know the scam.
This is a complete scam.
Another reason I think it is is if they truly were trying to revamp smuggler, every plan, even the Plan B, would be based in the core essence of the profession, which in our case is smuggling, but no, this isn't based on smuggling, this is based on laziness and a lack of care or concern for the profession. If Greenmarine or whoever is in charge had one iota of concern or care for the profession, we would see something different. I mean, it doesn't take a Fishbrain surgeon to see that if you are going to base slicing on special components, those components should be rewards from the smuggling missions. C'mon, we all know this is the appropriate way to go, assuming this is the best way to revamp slicing, which I'm not entirely certain, but I digress. And this wouldn't be hard to do, all they have to do is put the item in a different loot table. I can't imagine this coding would be too hard.
If these uber components were only obtainable by master smuggler missions, then maybe, just maybe being a Master would mean something, but as it is, this sham of a new slicing system, makes being a Master not that important. It makes knowing jedi and being part of the Uber Loot Monkey Elite more important.
I have played this game since it launched. I started working on mastering it from day one, because I have dreamed of being a smuggler, flying a YT and all that Han Solo stuff since I first saw Star Wars Episode IV on opening day...nearly thirty years ago...so I guess I've been waiting for the smuggler revamp for 30 years...ouch...and I've never felt like leaving the game until now.
I've been though it all with you my brothers and sisters, but if this is what they've been working on for all these years, I think it's time to stop paying SOE anymore money. Although, I won't go down without a fight. I will stand beside you all on the Feast of Electricnomad and take my licking and my scars, and if I don't make it, I will die knowing I was part of the greatest community in this game, the few, the proud, the Master Smugglers.
If any of you feel the same, I urge you to stand up and fight for what is rightly ours. We have waited for this revamp, we have paid for this revamp, we deserve a real revamp, not some lame-brained, lazy ash balderdash the devs came up with at the last moment.
Demand that a smuggler 0400 won't be able to regularly out slice you just because he camps the right loot spot.
Demand that the slicing components be rewards for smuggling missions, not some soon to be loot camped Uber dungeon that has absolutely nothing to do with being a smuggler.
Demand that being a MASTER SMUGGLER actually mean something. If you want the best weapon, you don't go to any old weaponsmith to make you a krayted FWG. No, you go to a MASTER Weaponsmith. (suggestion for the devs, if you are deadset on these new components, can you at least cert them like ship components so only masters will be able to use the best slicing components?) If you want to go to Deep Space, you have to be a MASTER or contract one to take you there. (here's an idea, why not make these components lootable from an area only master smugglers and their groups, since I know you are wedded to the force people to group thing, can get into) If you wanted buffs, back when they meant something, you went to a MASTER Doc and/or a MASTER Dancer/Musician. You don't go to a novice shipwright to make you a firespray, you go to a MASTER. I don't think it's hard to get the point, even for a dev, who are quite certainly NOT Fishbrain surgeons.
Friends, if we don't stand up now, we will take it in the shorts in a bad way...we will go from being slice monkeys to being at the mercy of loot campers.
And to close out, with all recognition to Fishbrains who wrote it, I will repost his work for the Old School Crowd, not because I want to draw a line between us old timers and you newspec'ers, but to give you respec'ers a little of the history and the flavor of this community in which you find yourself. And don't feel left out, there is plenty of room in the trenches come Tuesday, the Feast of Electricnomad.
If we are marked to nerf, we are enow
To do our profession loss; and if to stay.
The fewer smuggler, the greater share of honour
God’s will I pray thee, wish not one smuggler more
By Jove, I am not covetous for credits,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost.
It yearns me not if men my credits spend;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires:
But if it be a sin to covet smuggling,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my smuggs, wish not one more person more.
God’s peace! I would not loose so great a honour
As one smuggler more, methinks, would share from me,
For the best hope I have. O! do not wish one more:
Rather proclaim it, Caylin, through our host,
That he witch hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his template shall be made,
And credits for convoy put in his purse.
We would not be nerfed in that man’s company
That fears his fellowship to get nerfed with us.
This day is called the feast of Electricnomad
He that outlives this nerf, and stays safe
Will stand a tip-toe when this day is named
And rouse him at the name of Electricnomad
He that shall stay this day, and see a revamp
Will yearly on the vigal feast his neighbours
And say, ‘To-morrow is Electricnomad’s’:
Then he will open up the smuggler forum and show his scar
And say ‘These wounds I had on Electricnomad’s day’.
Old smugglers forget: yet all shall be forgot,
But He’ll remember with atvantages
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words,
Caylin the corr, DrevenStrobe and Yimaz,
WesBelden, and Geevo, JTGaphta and Ipseck,
Be in their flowing cups freshly remember’d.
This story shall the good smuggler teach his son;
And Electricnomad’s day shall ne’er go by,
From this day to the ending of the profession,
But we in it shall be remembre’d;
We few, we cynical few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that stays smuggler with me,
Shall be my brother; be he ne-er such a troll
This day shall gentle his condition:
And Gentlemen in other forums now a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs’d they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That stayed with us upon Electricnomad’s day
I would like to make a couple of points in response to your post with all due respect, realizing I am still just a peon compared to an icon such as yourself, and I apologize for my gaul at disagreeing with you, but I do so with the greatest respect.
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You wrote:
We have no documented proof that someone with slicing 4 can slice just as well as a Master Smuggler.
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Well, I don't have proof, but I do have what they have said. They have said there will be components that will yield the highest slice levels. They did not say these could only be used by masters. The implication, and I don't think this is much of a stretch, is that all smugglers will be able to use these components, which means everyone will be able to get this uber slice. Granted it is not proof, but deduction, that this means a smuggler 0400 who has this uber component will be able to slice a weapon better than a master without it, which seems to me to mean a Slicing 4 will be able to slice better than a master in some cases. I'd love for them to clarify this, but from what Greenmarine said, his Plan B is to simple add these things to the loot tables in the High end dungeons, nothing more, which means anyone can get it and use it. While he didn't say anything about it, I would argue if there was a cert on these components so only masters could use it, reserving the highest slices for masters, he would have mentioned such an important point.
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You wrote:
How does camping the DWB have to do with being a smuggler? Risk vs Reward. It is the very essence and lifeblood of our profession. It is a risk to go down there. Sure, item breakage was also a risk, but getting components from DANGEROUS NPC's or creatures is also a risk, and in my book, that risk is every bit as valid as the risk of item breakage.
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Camping by it's very definition doesn't involve risk. Going to the dungeon does, but camping it is merely sitting there and killing it every time it spawns. It is a challenge for me to go to try and take down Lord Nyax. It is not a challenge for the camper who has been there all day watching TV and a timer so he can kill him like clockwork. Camping has nothing to do with what I think smuggler means, but you are more of a smuggler icon than I, so I defer to your wisdom and if you say camping is part of being a smuggler, then so be it.
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You wrote:
Have you considered that these slicing components will be rewards from our future smuggling missions?
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Well, yes I did as a matter of fact, but consider this...if they were, don't you think Greenmarine or Tiggs or even TH himself would be here himself telling us this? This would be the first thing out of their mouth because they know how great it would make us feel. Think about it...if you were a dev and you were trying to deal with a last minute problem with a new slicing system and presenting it to this community, don't you think the first thing out of their mouth would be you'll get slicing components as rewards for smuggling missions?
Of course it would...it would greatly reduce concern and placate us. I doubt anyone on the dev team would pass up this opportunity to give us good news, which leads me to conclude, and I might be wrong, I know, they won't.
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You wrote:
We are getting Concussion Shot turned into a more useful special. We are getting Panic Shot and Overwhelming Shot fixed and changed.
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Ok, what does that have to do with slicing? I'm not talking about combat and our specials. I like what they've done with it. I assume you mention this along the lines of I should be happy because of these things and forget the issues (mind you they're issues, not whines) I have with the Plan B slicing system, or rather one part of the system. I have said before and will say again for the most part I like the new system and think it will be fun. I just have a couple concerns and issues with it. I'm sorry if you think this is whining. I do hold you with deep respect and mean no ill will to you with this post and hope you will take it as merely my opinion and thoughts, and respectful disagreement.
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You wrote:
We have a slicing system that is MORE indepth, even if you don't like the whole loot-drop thing.
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I agree, it is a MORE indepth system. I am not dumb, you know. I've read as much as I can about the system, and while I don't likely have your indepth knowledge or expertise, I can read a sentence or two...and please don't diminish my concern by calling it the "whole loot-drop thing." I imagine you are a Uber player with a robust PA and cadre of friends so this "whole loot-drop thing" isn't a concern for you, but some of us aren't as lucky. Some of us truly are solo and putting high end slicing components in the DWB is essentially putting them beyond our reach, so it isn't a trivial issue to me. I can only ask you respect that, I can't ask you to understand or appreciate that, however, but I have hopes for you've always seemed to have a good head on your shoulders.
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Sure this community is great, but I honestly value our ability to understand and deal with our limitations. I wanted the slicing minigame. I LOVE item breakage, but you know what? Crap changes.
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And you think I don't know this? I know crap changes, but I also know you don't have to take the crap. There's nothing wrong with calling crap what it is...crap...or Balderdash, my preferred referent. And you know what? I LOVE item breakage, too. I wanted the slicing minigame as well, but you know what?
I'm dealing with that. I just can't deal with the "whole loot-drop thing." It is elitist and exclusionary to master smugglers who aren't so rich with friends and power. I am a simple smuggler in a rp guild of about 10, 9 of which play on Aussie time, so I play alone. Most of my friends have left the game out of disgust with various things, so I'm pretty much left to my own devices and what I can do by myself....just like it was in the beginning at launch when I was grinding unarmed by killing grogs and kreedles outside Anchorhead...I realize this is possibly a foreign concept to you, but it isn't a little issue to some people.
Message Edited by lurdanta on 06-24-2005 01:05 PM
Ternque01 wrote:
Have you considered that these slicing components will be rewards from our future smuggling missions?
So buying Krayt tissues from the bazaar must be risky and smugglerlike too, huh? Wow, I had no idea. Because there doesn't seem to be a difference at the moment. Anyone who wants the best will shell out the cash to some loot-camper, and have the best slice with no further penalty for using illegal equipment.
Ternque01 wrote:
How does camping the DWB have to do with being a smuggler? Risk vs Reward. It is the very essence and lifeblood of our profession. It is a risk to go down there. Sure, item breakage was also a risk, but getting components from DANGEROUS NPC's or creatures is also a risk, and in my book, that risk is every bit as valid as the risk of item breakage.
It should be the client's themselves that make the high slicing rare for the risks they face after the slice. The high slicesshould not be rare because Smugglers don't have the tools to do the job.
Ternque01 wrote:
zakalex wrote:
Going to DWB is not even close to the same as breakage. The new proposed looting is the risk before you even slice, once the slice is done there is zero risk to the client. So every client is going to want the loot slice simply because they have nothing to lose later on, with breakage the client would have to decide if that chance was worth the slice for them.
Hey, in the old system, there was no risk after slicing either. We are both going under the assumption that the weak-ass Crackdown troops pose no risk, which they don't.
In the end, you make higher level slices rare, which was the case in the books and movies. This alone is an improvement in the slicing system.
Bzzzz wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
Have you considered that these slicing components will be rewards from our future smuggling missions?
We've considered this, and it's a great idea. Unfortunately, it's also doesn't appear to be the plan. Apparently we're seeing these slicing components on mobs in the DWB/Avatar.If they're rolling out Slicing now, and Smuggler later ("later"), then it's pretty doubtful that good slicing will be dependent on Smuggling. If it were, then we'd be a lot happier about it.
So buying Krayt tissues from the bazaar must be risky and smugglerlike too, huh? Wow, I had no idea. Because there doesn't seem to be a difference at the moment. Anyone who wants the best will shell out the cash to some loot-camper, and have the best slice with no further penalty for using illegal equipment.
Ternque01 wrote:
How does camping the DWB have to do with being a smuggler? Risk vs Reward. It is the very essence and lifeblood of our profession. It is a risk to go down there. Sure, item breakage was also a risk, but getting components from DANGEROUS NPC's or creatures is also a risk, and in my book, that risk is every bit as valid as the risk of item breakage.
-Zz
Also, GM said he would get the rare drops to happen in places other than DWB and Avatar Platform in one of his posts. So those won't be the "only" places to get the rare drops.
Thomen wrote:
Dont get me wrong.. i m not against the point keeping the high end slices rare. i m against placing the components in places where not everyone has achance to get them. You can keep the components rare if you adjust the loot table of more random and accesible mobs instead placing the stuff in dungeons where hardly anyone can get into.
The RISK in the currently discussedsystem with loot components is for those who try to get the items, which is the same risk if you just go down into DWB to craft a jetpack, a piece of Mando, or even take a sighseeing tour.
If you just plain and simple buy the stuff from vendor_001 or whin0r_666, where is the risk for you or your customer?
I understand your point. I think that if someone, somewhere had to go through a risk to get it, then I am happy. Of course, even the person who buys one of these components off a vendor had to get the money for it some way.
Even so, item breakage was a great idea because the nature of the risk was directly tied to the weapon and the slice... not some stupid creature in the DWB.
In a lot of ways, losing item breakage is a setback for both continuity and RP, but at least this new loot-drop system still includes nuturing a smuggler's interaction with people in a more positive way. Item breakage would have kept customers coming back, but probably under aggravated and NEGATIVE terms. Most people would get pissed off at their crap breaking. At least with this loot-drop system, smugglers will interact in more than just one way; they will interact with buddies trying to get these parts themselves, they will engage themselves in the component market, and they will have POSTIVE interaction with customers who come to them knowing that all of their hard work will pay off.
The one BIG loss with this new slicing system is that there is no risk WHILE the item is being sliced. To me, it was very enjoyable interacting with people who really had no clue as to what was going to happen. THAT was fun to me. That risk occurred DURING the slicing process. The item breakage occured ALL OF THE TIME (which was cool), but not during the slice. This loot-drop system's risk occurs before the slice.
Hell... at least I still get the thrill of dealing with people who find it a risk to hand over their valuables to a complete stranger. To me, that is the greatest risk of all, and is the BEST opportunity to win people's trust. That's the best risk. Thank the Force the devs didn't implement a gay slicing window for people who can't learn to trust others.
Bzzzz wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
Have you considered that these slicing components will be rewards from our future smuggling missions?
We've considered this, and it's a great idea. Unfortunately, it's also doesn't appear to be the plan. Apparently we're seeing these slicing components on mobs in the DWB/Avatar.
If they're rolling out Slicing now, and Smuggler later ("later"), then it's pretty doubtful that good slicing will be dependent on Smuggling. If it were, then we'd be a lot happier about it.
So buying Krayt tissues from the bazaar must be risky and smugglerlike too, huh? Wow, I had no idea. Because there doesn't seem to be a difference at the moment. Anyone who wants the best will shell out the cash to some loot-camper, and have the best slice with no further penalty for using illegal equipment.
Ternque01 wrote:
How does camping the DWB have to do with being a smuggler? Risk vs Reward. It is the very essence and lifeblood of our profession. It is a risk to go down there. Sure, item breakage was also a risk, but getting components from DANGEROUS NPC's or creatures is also a risk, and in my book, that risk is every bit as valid as the risk of item breakage.
-Zz
I couldn't agree with you more, except the loot-drop part. I think the act of slicing should be as risky as possible...as risky as a jedi pulling the glow stick in public...I think we should get on BH terms for it sometimes.
if you're slicing in a major city then you should run the risk of your "meeting" being busted up by Stormies or the local Cops.
this is from another thread:
GanymedePharuu wrote:
Makris wrote:I hear you. This feels like a non-update update. I hate feeling that we're necessary. I want to feel like I'm a gamble. Yes I might have a better weapon if I use you, but I also might get into a mess.
They should allow players to report slicers to the authorities. Think of that! Now I'm in trouble for slicing, but then our underground network of smugglers add another player to their listof players to not do business with. It's so simple, yet it adds another dimension.
see, now here's a man who's usin his noggin!
allowing players to report slicers is a awesome and immersive idea. it could spawn a squad of Stormies or local Cops to come after you as you leave town, or head to the starport.
will it be used for griefing? perhaps. but really it would make perfect sense. some little punk wants to grief you, so they ask you for a slice with the intention of reporting you. so, like you said, you let your Smuggler friends know to never do business with that jerk again and he gets no more slices. or you can maybe counter-report him?
meeting with a player to slice their stuff would then be a RISK! (as it should be for both parties)
the Smuggler's reward would be the payment. the other Player's reward would be the sliced item.
now that's what i call REAL Risk vs. Reward!
Message Edited by GanymedePharuu on 06-24-2005 01:23 PM
Ternque01 wrote:
Listen, I know you disagree, and that is your right, but just like the Ivory trade or the spice trade on planet earth, these rich people who buy these goods add even more excitement to the system. In the end, somebody has to risk their ass to get the goods.
As a smuggler, you will find YOUR profession more risky as well as you find ways of getting these components yourselves by either looting them yourself or snaking somebody of them for a cheap price. I'd rather MY profession have more risk than some piece of crap gun that I don't care about breaking on a customer and having to deal with the jerk when he comes to me acting like an ass later.
I really like the Ivory/Spice correlation, but as illegal products, they require a smuggler to take risks in order to bring them to market. The final retailer that brings them to a consumer is just the middle-man. In this system, we're the middle-men, not the risk-takers. We *could* be, but then so could anyone else. And with much more success than we could (ie Jedi Template of the Week).
And then when all is said and done, the final product here will be perfectly legit and without any risk at all. A customer can happily wander off flashing his weapon at any nearby Stormtrooper without any fear of illegality.
-Zz
Bzzzz wrote:
I really like the Ivory/Spice correlation, but as illegal products, they require a smuggler to take risks in order to bring them to market. The final retailer that brings them to a consumer is just the middle-man. In this system, we're the middle-men, not the risk-takers. We *could* be, but then so could anyone else. And with much more success than we could (ie Jedi Template of the Week).
And then when all is said and done, the final product here will be perfectly legit and without any risk at all. A customer can happily wander off flashing his weapon at any nearby Stormtrooper without any fear of illegality.
-Zz
I must also be honest. Allowing these components to be obtained by anybody does homogenize the smuggler experience.
If these upper level slicing components are added as reward for smuggling missions, then you will see the power that the loot-drop system gives away return to our profession.