Smuggler Archive
Thread: Description of how Level-driven CU works and a question
dlc3007 wrote:
I assume that all the armor stats and damages have been finalized in the TC then. Well, that blows. I guess.... wait.
No? You mean the stats can still change?
But weren't there all sorts of rants and whines that there was no real difference in armor and therefore toons?
Ahh... I guess many of these people are doing what we would expect: knee-jerk reacting to aspects of the CU that are still in development. Funny about that. Guess they've already decided that the different specials from the different professions won't make any difference either.
Maybe it'd be best to see what actually goes live. Even better, let's see what the live system is like in the beginning of July when it has been debugged and tweeked further. Of course, that isn't as much fun to post about on the forums.
LM wrote:I found this excellent post in Test Center that describes how the level-driven combat works in the CU. I have only played in the CU for about 15 minutes and was unhappy with the cartoon-like feel of the interface, icons, etc., but thought, well, maybe I could deal with it. But after reading this description, I am feeling seriously discouraged (sorry, I am clicky-challenged):About two-thirds of the way down is an excellent report of someone's experience as he was leveling up.This one was good, too:There are also multiple posts in the Armorsmith forum regarding the oversimplification of their craft (which, due to the apparent oversimplification of combat, is, of course, to be expected):Have any of you done much combat in the CU and what did you think? How do you feel about this level-driven stuff? In reading these posts, I feel like things have been really "dumbed down" but since I haven't gotten back to test center (busy) I don't know first-hand.Lilac Moon
AAAWWWAAAAAYYYYYYYYyyyy!!!!
Edited to add one more "y".
Message Edited by Nicolas_Frost on 04-12-2005 06:58 PM
Dont we look at the HAM now if we come across a mob you have never battled before? It's the same thing. The amount of HAM was like the lvl of the mob. I hope they all quit, I'm so sick of whiners. It's because of whiners that SWG is in the state it's in. I remember there was a time when we had to group. Then the whiners start complaining...
While I'm on a rantpage...
Some of you people have made me hate Han Solo, "Why cant we get the DL44, Han Solo had it...this isnt Star Wars, etc, etc. Gah! Get a grip...Han obvisouly mastered two professions; MP and MS...do that if you want a DL44 so bad. I hate you all!
-Joint Stardust
Master Smuggler
Message Edited by unde on 04-13-2005 11:50 AM
unde wrote:
Dont listen to them fools, "OMG this is a lvl based game now, we will just be looking at the lvls, etc, etc".
Dont we look at the HAM now if we come across a mob you have never battled before? It's the same thing. The amount of HAM was like the lvl of the mob. I hope they all quit, I'm so sick of whiners. It's because of whiners that SWG is in the state it's in. I remember there was a time when we had to group. Then the whiners start complaining...
While I'm on a rantpage...
Some of you people have made me hate Han Solo, "Why cant we get the DL44, Han Solo had it...this isnt Star Wars, etc, etc. Gah! Get a grip...Han obvisouly mastered two professions; MP and MS...do that if you want a DL44 so bad. I hate you all!
-Joint Stardust
Master Smuggler
Message Edited by unde on 04-13-2005 11:50 AM
unde wrote:
Dont listen to them fools, "OMG this is a lvl based game now, we will just be looking at the lvls, etc, etc".
Dont we look at the HAM now if we come across a mob you have never battled before? It's the same thing. The amount of HAM was like the lvl of the mob. I hope they all quit, I'm so sick of whiners. It's because of whiners that SWG is in the state it's in. I remember there was a time when we had to group. Then the whiners start complaining...
While I'm on a rantpage...
Some of you people have made me hate Han Solo, "Why cant we get the DL44, Han Solo had it...this isnt Star Wars, etc, etc. Gah! Get a grip...Han obvisouly mastered two professions; MP and MS...do that if you want a DL44 so bad. I hate you all!
-Joint Stardust
Master Smuggler
Message Edited by unde on 04-13-2005 11:50 AM
unde wrote:
Dont listen to them fools, "OMG this is a lvl based game now, we will just be looking at the lvls, etc, etc".
Dont we look at the HAM now if we come across a mob you have never battled before? It's the same thing. The amount of HAM was like the lvl of the mob. I hope they all quit, I'm so sick of whiners. It's because of whiners that SWG is in the state it's in. I remember there was a time when we had to group. Then the whiners start complaining...
While I'm on a rantpage...
Some of you people have made me hate Han Solo, "Why cant we get the DL44, Han Solo had it...this isnt Star Wars, etc, etc. Gah! Get a grip...Han obvisouly mastered two professions; MP and MS...do that if you want a DL44 so bad. I hate you all!
-Joint Stardust
Master Smuggler
Message Edited by unde on 04-13-2005 11:50 AM
It's NOT the same thing at all.
In the new system, the critters (or NPCs) no longer hit for a setrange of damage -- for example "I am a nuna, I hit for 20-50 points of damage." That nuna NOW looks at YOUR LEVEL vs. ITS LEVEL and its instructions are "The lower the level the player is in comparison to my level, the harder I will hit him." This goes on exponentially, as exhibited by these statistics from a tester by the name of Officer Dribble -- he said:
Lots of people have been mentioning this multiplier that alters the damage of the attacker according to the level difference, but I've not seen much in the way of numbers. So I took myself out and let myself get beaten up by a bunch of monsters of various levels and recorded roughly how much average damage they did at level 1 and at level 10.
Me lvl 1 (0/0/0/0 everything) vs...
lvl 1 – 75 dmg
lvl 2 – 140 dmg , multiplier=1.8
lvl 3 – 200 dmg , multiplier=2.6
lvl 4 – 270 dmg , multiplier=3.6
lvl 5 – 310 dmg , multiplier=4.2
Me lvl 10 (3/0/0/0 brawler, 0/4/0/4 marksman) vs...
lvl 5 , 60 dmg , multiplier=0.67
lvl 6 , 60 dmg , multiplier=0.67
lvl 7 , 60 dmg , multiplier=0.67
lvl 8 , 60 dmg , multiplier=0.67
lvl 9 , 60 dmg , multiplier=0.67
lvl 10 , 90 dmg
lvl 11 , 170 dmg , multiplier=1.8
lvl 12 , 240 dmg , multiplier=2.6
lvl 13 , 330 dmg , multiplier=3.6
lvl 14 , 395 dmg , multiplier=4.3
lvl 15 , 460 dmg , multiplier=5.1
(all damage results were rounded to the nearest 5, as they were a little bit random)
Notice the multipliers for each additional level they have above yours are (roughly) the same for levels 1 and level 10. It works out to be about 85% extra damage per level above you.
Make of this what you will
So basically, your defense mods, skills and armor mean nothing unless you always fight something that is the same level (or very close, and in that case apparently defensive mods and armor help very very little) as you are. This seems to be a terribly oversimplified system. It appears to limit the player because he or she stands NO chance with any level critter that is more than one level above them with this "damage multiplier" formula in place.
Apparently, if you are grouped with higher level players (say you are a 6 and they are a 16),a level 16critter will damage all group members "equally" based (if I understand this correctly) on the higher level players in that group. But if the group is disbanded, you at level 6 begin immediately receiving possibly five times the damage (or maybe more -- I am not awake enough to do math) from that same critter as the level 16 players. (I guess there is a potential for griefing here, but meh...) So, I guess you DO get a shot at critters that are at a higher level than you, but only if you group. This is probably why groups are limited to 8 members now -- some kind of formulae are at work here that would make any group larger than 8 00B3R.
It looks like the CU system is not based nearly as much on skill and tactics (at least for solo players or groups of two) as it is in live, it is based on an artificial set of rules. Yes, I know it's a game, but I liked the way it worked before -- SWG was a virtual world, really; less like a game than EQ2, etc. SWG had many more layers, more variables, more ways for the playerto affect the outcome of combat. YES it needed balancing, for reasons too numerous to go into here. It needed SERIOUS balancing. But why scrap such a deep, rich system for something that appears to be this shallow?
That is why I was asking -- has anyone here really tested this in test center, and if so, what do you think? I have yet to get back and I guess the bottom line is that I'd better make the time, because what I am reading bums me out.
Lilac Moon
p.s. Thank you, Masked Avenger!
Message Edited by LM on 04-13-2005 10:11 AM
Message Edited by LM on 04-13-2005 10:24 AM
If I wanted to play a 1 player shooter I would be playing something on Xbox.
This system is not healthy for those just trying to be uber and solo at will. The system will be tweaked. Plus this system(CU) is a hellava lot better than what we are playing now...how can you feel bummed out about that? You would rather pay $15/mo for a worser game? SWG as of now svcks...I log on and just stand there cause I dont feel like running around looking for buffs...sometimes I ask myself, "Why did I even log on?"
-Joint Stardust
Master Smuggler
Message Edited by unde on 04-13-2005 01:23 PM
Message Edited by HOTDOG on 04-13-2005 10:46 AM
HOTDOG wrote:Yes.We do need to remember that SWG is JACKED as it stands right now.I would spend-literally- HOURS riding around getting buffs, food and equipment. And then what would I DO with it? The same old, same old. Get in a solo group and take out missions so's I'd earn loot to sell and have money for my next set of buffs and equipment.Sure, trimming back buffs would have fixed that problem (most likely)- but PvP is another matter.I am curious how PvP will be effected by this rate system, as it is my belief, THAT is where the end game lies.Yea, PvE is important. I love PvE. It needs more content.BUT the main focus of Jedi, the GCW and other highend material are best at the PvP level.I think this system was made to make PvP a better experience. I can't wait to find out if it does.
I couldnt agree more. I dont even pvp anymore...I got tired of the target mind "I win button". I'm sure alot of ppl feel this way. Melee is way overpowered and it seems you have to have melee to do anything in pvp. It's not like the player behind the computer is any good...my Grandmother could sit at the computer and press F5 all night too. I'm glad that bloody combat que got thrown out the window as well...if you wanna spam become a crafter and stand in front of coronet.
-Joint Stardust
Master Smuggler
Message Edited by unde on 04-13-2005 01:49 PM
LM wrote:SWG had many more layers, more variables, more ways for the playerto affect the outcome of combat.
i think the current combat system in live has less ways for the player to affect the outcome of combat. unless you count calculating templates, spending millions on CAs and AAs, spending millions on krayted or DoT weapons, and getting buffed. those are really the only things that affected the outcome of combat.
and they're all preparatory things. if you prepared correctly, then all you needed to do was spam F5 in the combat queue and go re-heat up your pizza.
what you do IN combat should weigh equally (as preparation) towards the outcome.
the CU makes this happen.
LM wrote:We could craft amazingly different armor, food, weapons, clothing, meds, buffs. We could use our intelligence and creativity, put together different avatar templates, wear certain armor, bear certain weapons and fight higher level mobs using strategy.
SWG used to be in technicolor -- or had the potential to be.
yes i agree that we could craft all those different things. variety is great. but it got to the point where people figured out how to craft things that were above and beyond the virtual world itself. so everyone gravitated towards the select few things that were the best. 80%+ resists on comp armor, the relying on certain foods to be successful, rediculous looted DoT weapons, clothing never really affected combat since everyone wore comp armor, meds were rarely used because you didn't need to be healed when you were buffed, buffs... we all know how much a mess they made.
yes we could use our intelligence, to figure out all the formulas and squeeze the most out of everything we touched. virtually refining how we did things to such a distinct pattern that you'd rarely see any diversity except for instances of Roleplaying.
the only real strategy was to follow these patterns.
i agree that SWG has the potential to be so much more than it ever has been.
but i can't say it was in technicolor when just about everyone at the elite level wore the same armor, used the same weapons, picked the same template, and fought the same things.