Smuggler Archive
Thread: It's a Matter of Trust
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Kasaaz
Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:35 am
#1
Devs, Smugglers, Countrymen,
With all the anger and outrage, I think the more insidious problem is trust. I believe thatsmugglers, an in fact a large number of players in general, have lost confidence in the developers to deliver just about anything. We have been misled and, by some definitions, lied to. We have been strung along too far. We just don't believe you anymore, no matter what you say. You have shown us no proof that you will complete even half of what you say you will deliver and when you do,you have almost consistantly delivered it late.
The counter arguments are that people are still here, and people are still paying to play the game. This is true. But we are here as much for the companionship of our fellow players as we are for your game. At this point, I would venture that 50% of what keeps a player here is the other players and 20% is the potential your game has. The other 30% would be what your game currently delivers, and this is something that is always being worked on. The problem comes when trust is broken and confidence is lost. The potential no longer matters, because people no longer believe you will deliver it. The fact that an entire rebalance of the combat system, over a year into the game, exists, is a testament to the 30% the game delivers.
We, the players, pay to play Star Wars Galaxies as it stands now.We realize profits can be spent in any way SOE chooses, but there has always been an understanding between the players and the Devs that content will continue to be added and improved and fixes for things that do not work right, or which require total rewriting, will be taken care of. We do look forward to Jump to Lightspeed, for the most part, but we do not have confidence that you will deliver a bug and exploit free game. I think a good majority of long time players will pretty much assume some sort of gamebreaking exploit will be found in JTL. This will, of course, need to be addressed first. Thus delaying our revamp further.
The first step in quieting the furor over the recent announcements of delays, etc. Is to regain the trust of the players. This is not going to be easy to do.I can only tell you what would regain my trust. To do that you would either have to pull your resources from JTL and get the previously promised Combat Rebalance, GCW Revamp and Smuggler Revamp done before the release of JTL. You would have to make it clear that this is what you were doing. You would have to apologize to the players for having misled them for so long on these things. Most players make the decision to continue paying for your game on a month to month basis. Telling us something will be done within a month or two and then pushing it back seems like bait and switch to us. The only remedy for this would be at least a month of the game free for anyone who has had an active account in the last six months. These would restore at least restore some of my confidence in you and begin to earn my trust again.
I am interested to hear what others have to say,
Kasaaz
BarboGato
Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:57 am
#2
Unfortunately I have to agree with you Kasaaz. Up until recently I have been very supportive of and sympathetic to the challenges the devs face.
However, the way the player community has been communicated to lately has me pretty upset. A prime example is the smuggler revamp. Smugglers have been waiting for this a long time. Finally the devs seem to respond and tell us it is coming very soon! Greenmarine activly posts in the smuggler forums!
Then Greenmarine disappears, and TH announces all fixes are on hold because all developer resources are dedicated to JTL and Jedi.
If SOE would have just said this in the beginning instead of stringing us along, I can handle that. I'd still be disappointed but I could handle that. But DON'T PROMISE SOMETHING AND THEN NOT DELIVER! Once I can understand, but it happens AGAIN and AGAIN!
By no means is this just a smuggler issue either. Virtually every profession has been strung out to dry.
I really enjoy SWG and want it to be a great game. But right now SOE has me frustrated.
DRWolfe
Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:11 am
#3
Me, I like the game. It has issues, but I understand that it takes a lot of effort to make the game what everyone wants it to be. I believe the developers want to have a "complete" game, and the release of JTL is necessary to "complete" the game, as ships and battles in space are an integral part of Star Wars. Once the game is complete, then they can focus on "fixing" the whole of the game to give us the best experience they can. This was always their plan. Unfortunately, they have very limited resources, and so are unable to handle everything they would like to.
They are also pulled in so many directions when deciding what to fix. Every person has something they want worked on, so the developers have to make tough decisions on what to fix, hoping that what they do will make the most people happy. It's a very difficult balancing act. Sometimes, the "big picture" makes you decide on something that will anger many people at the time, but will be better for everyone in the long run.
Now that I've given the developers a little slack, I have to balance that will some criticism. They MUST communicate with the players, and they MUST do so honestly. That is the MOST important thing, and it is something thay have failed to do. They must be truthful and specific about issues facing us and them. If they change something, and we all ask "Why?", tell us. If you can't do something, tell us and tell us why. If you can do something but it will take a long time, let us know.
Working on a game this complex is difficult and time-consuming, but if you really want to make your players happy, talk to us, take our suggestions, then let us know what you can and can't do and an honest estimate of how long. Then, once you've decided to do something and told us you're going to do it and when, then do it, and only let the most pressing of matters push it back. If you're not going to make a publish date, just let us know ahead of time and why. It's easy. I honestly believe more honest communication would seriously cut down on the dev-bashing.
Right now, I'm just playing the game. I want Pub10 out as soon as possible, but until then, I just play and enjoy the game as it is. I know it will get here eventually, as will JTL, the combat revamp, and the CGW revamp. When they get here, I will still enjoy the game, waiting for the next big thing that everyone else is waiting for, because there will always be something...
They are also pulled in so many directions when deciding what to fix. Every person has something they want worked on, so the developers have to make tough decisions on what to fix, hoping that what they do will make the most people happy. It's a very difficult balancing act. Sometimes, the "big picture" makes you decide on something that will anger many people at the time, but will be better for everyone in the long run.
Now that I've given the developers a little slack, I have to balance that will some criticism. They MUST communicate with the players, and they MUST do so honestly. That is the MOST important thing, and it is something thay have failed to do. They must be truthful and specific about issues facing us and them. If they change something, and we all ask "Why?", tell us. If you can't do something, tell us and tell us why. If you can do something but it will take a long time, let us know.
Working on a game this complex is difficult and time-consuming, but if you really want to make your players happy, talk to us, take our suggestions, then let us know what you can and can't do and an honest estimate of how long. Then, once you've decided to do something and told us you're going to do it and when, then do it, and only let the most pressing of matters push it back. If you're not going to make a publish date, just let us know ahead of time and why. It's easy. I honestly believe more honest communication would seriously cut down on the dev-bashing.
Right now, I'm just playing the game. I want Pub10 out as soon as possible, but until then, I just play and enjoy the game as it is. I know it will get here eventually, as will JTL, the combat revamp, and the CGW revamp. When they get here, I will still enjoy the game, waiting for the next big thing that everyone else is waiting for, because there will always be something...
Aliusone
Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:42 pm
#4
I agree.
I have totally respected delays and problems and stories and whatever else, but recent actions have upset me. Devoting two publishes to jedi is appalling. The jedi community is the minority within the game, yet they have had all the attention recently, so much so that most of the other professions are stuck until the combat rebalance with broken specials, redundancies, and general inequalities.
Which brings me to the combat rebalance. What kind of horse**** is this, pushing it back until after an expansion? An expansion on a broken game.
This relates directly to most of us here, as pistoleer, one of the most useless and in need of attention professions in the game, is a natural selection to compliment the smuggler. That is an extra slap in the face for it not to be fixed anytime soon.
With the smuggler revamp pushed back and pushed back, and now this, we are not only borked in terms of money-making skills, but also in combat skills.
I would much prefer the combat rebalance BEFORE JTL. I would have much preferred it before the jedi revamp, as those of us who have problems with it are obviously interested in the profession and not just grinding it out on our way to jedi. We have been promised a revamp for a long time now, and it has yet to be addressed.
I know I'm only one guy, and if I say I'm quitting the game, someone else somewhere will probably sign up, but my patience is wearing thin, and I'm not the only one. I will say this: I firmly believe that unless JTL is a masterpiece, and the combat rebalance is one of the greatest pieces of programming to ever hit the world, there will be a large humber of disheartened and disillusioned players, and a mass exodus of long time players to bigger and better games.
I am asking for more than the smuggler revamp we have been promised for months, I am asking the devs to finally pull their heads out and realize that the gaming community is unhappy with a lot of what's going on, and that is not the way to do things.
Havok3060
Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:51 pm
#5
I hate jedi so... I blame them for everything that happens to me in life
OslasAne
Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:40 pm
#6
I am still here for a few reasons. I believe that the game still has alot of potential. I believe I would reallyenoy the JTLS if it's done right. I believe they still might fix the ground game. There isn't another game I feel I would spend $15 a month for right NOW.
That aside I am very disappointed in the way things have come out the last few weeks. I am at end game and it is very hard to do anything to keep me interested in logging in. I am mostly a solo player so corvette and DWB are out with my templet. Hermit quest is FUBAR'd atm for various reasons and I have no desire to take my swoop around a race track. I have done 16 profs and have no desire to do anymore atm. GCW is a joke and my chosen templet is playable but does notmake it easy to compete in the high end content. I have done most quests worth doing and have been there done that with most of the content in the game. Jedi....well not sure I want to embark on this SNAFU. So the only thing keeping me here really is the JTLS because everything else will not come to live till end 2004 or more likely 2005. If jtls can keep my interest till the changes to the ground come along then they might just have a loyal fan of the game. If not I am gone when the first of many mmo come along that are looking better.
MavriK512
Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:13 pm
#7
What really irks me is that so much of this was promised/supposed to be done before the game even came out. Reall,y it's just not good procedure to release an incomplete game.
Jedi_Nforcer
Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:31 pm
#8
Even though I agree with you,
I still think we should stop b*tching because slicing is awesome and and underworld already made me alot of money and spice are great just because of the fact that you can techinacally make mind stims
vagrant13
Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:57 am
#9
Havok3060 wrote:
I hate jedi so... I blame them for everything that happens to me in life
Me too...I'm glad they all die in Episode 3.
blacke
Fri Jul 23, 2004 4:08 am
#10
Jedi_NForcer: good for you. You got something out of it all but most of usothers look towards what the game brings in content and not just a few skills and how muchmoney you can make. Most of us play the game for the total experiance of Star Wars, which is lacking enormously right now. Most of the stuff we complain about now is the secrecy that is SOE and there planning.
This is a matter that plauges the game as a whole and is seen most in some professions, one of them is my main, Commando. Lots of the issues in here should nothave been in the game from the beginning, at least not tothe extent that they are now.
The managers only see dollars, that's why they are pushing for JTL now and not after the CB.The devs are doing there job as the managers dictate it to them, so don't trash the devs so much, trash the managers more.Anyone not seeing the problem here? If the combat system is borked right now, how will the combat system of JTL be? Not much better unless they have a completly separete system conserning equations, resistanses, damage and the like. Fix the main problem of combat first, then bring in an expansion which adds so much more content then what we already have.The SWG managers caved in to "public demand"and. in my opinion, released SWG way too soon. They caved in a few times after that also, mainly with jedis. In my opinion, jedis should have been an expansion.
Also, all the new content that been added, corvette and DWB mainly. That doesn't give a very starwarsy feeling with all the uber mobs. What gives a more starwarsy feeling is big battles. Lots and lotsof low/mid end mobs that one can just plow through with little help, though not alone.
DRWolfe
Fri Jul 23, 2004 4:54 am
#11
I have to say, I think the Jedi actually got only one publish. Publish 9 was a revamp of the Jedi. Publish 10 is a revamp of how to become a Jedi. Publish 10 we needed to get rid of the hologrinding everyone was screaming about ruining the game. Publish 9 is the one that revamped a minority profession. And maybe we can't blame the Jedi, but the devs for their decision. They needed to stop the hologrinding, therefore Publish 10. I guess they decided to revamp the Jedi in Publish 9 while they were at it. Took much more than they maybe originally thought. The jedi screamed as much as everyone else, it's just that everyone else was screaming about something Jedi-related, so they threw it together. It's just time. They'll move on soon enough.
Do like me and just enjoy the game. 
Ezis
Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:03 am
#12
The developers have come to teach us a major thing in-game... Jedi are the dominant force in the Galaxy between episodes IV and V, and the smuggler revamp is a hokey religeon!!!!
CadenceX
Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:18 am
#13
Kasaaz sums it up in my opinion.
Points abound in this thread.
Trust and the consumer.
Since I've set foot in these forums, I've tried to understand the general concensus of the profession and players. I've journeyed in my small tenure among these forums as a genuinely open and optimistic class professional into a somewhat pessimistic and disheartened casual player/browser. It was amazing at first to learn that developers and SOE representatives actually take time to interact with the player/fanbase. In retrospect, to paying customers in the least, this shouldn't have been so novel. I'm not sure its even precedence. I've run the gambit on my thoughts and concerns while trying to ascertain why any would continue to play the profession deemed by its ownself the most neglected.
I find very few faults in the wants and reactions by this community within these forums. In online gaming in general, you have many who all too willingly invest time and money into an experience as "advertised" and ultimately feel dissapointed because it isn't. Its no easy feat to assemble, develop, and maintain a online game I'm sure, but its all for naught when the biggest asset of any franchise/company, trust, is lost. Perhaps things are not as critical as some estimate, that the profitability of SWG will remain a basic constant because the resources will be restructured in such a way as to maintain a equilibrium between development/maintenance and the consumer.
The next best thing is around the corner somewhere, waiting to overide the sensibilities of those who want an experience that provides promised working content and community feedback, and it only has to be slightly better than what is represented here.
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