Smuggler Archive
Thread: Slicing Pricing Change Doc (please read)
Page 1 of 3
iLuciferi
Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:19 pm
#1
Ok I have not been a Master Smuggler for nearly as long as many of you, but recently a few things regarding Slicing prices has come to my attention. As you undoubtedly know with the Smuggler revamp now delayed for an indeterminate amount of time we are essentially reduced to slice-bots as someone so elegantly put it. I am on the Wanderhome server, so I cannot vouch for any other servers, but this one seems to have many Master Smugglers slicing for around 3K per. This I have a problem with. We all know what Doc Buffs go for, but that has been discussed before, so I won't get into that comparison. I did however find a few things that have prompted me to increase my slicing prices dramatically. When slicing for a Weaponsmith, I followed him to his vendor, and upon slicing around 40 of his guns, checked his prices. We all know that a good slice can add a significant amount to the cost of a weapon, in some cases over 100k+. Yet we only usually charge 3k. He is profitting thousands from OUR service. I took a survey both in my guild and with customers to see what people thought was reasonable.
Here is my theory:
15-20% either free or 2k
21-29% 5k
30-35% 12-15k
Ask any weaponsmith(or player for that matter) and they would be happy to pay that high end fee for a slice of that magnitude. The problem is, we can't unify on pricing when there's one random guy running around doing it for 2-3k spamming in coronet. Also I like this because unlike the cred per % system it is easier to track, and less confusion withnew players (chuckle for the smuggler anyone?) Anyway just looking for some other opinions on this. Most I have talked to on Wanderhome were fine with it.
Thanks for reading.
LOKTARofDP
Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:31 pm
#2
Its a nice thought, but untill there is any experimentation associated with 'smuggling', and the materials become a little more sensitive to the instruments, it'll be hard to convince any other players to do the same. I wish what you propose could happen, but once again, its that freaking revamp we are all waiting for. When I try to up the price on slicing in lowca, I get players yelling at me for trying to cheat them, or they tell me they can get it cheaper somewhere else. Its not that they ate lying, its that someone else IS. I honostly don't know what else to do but comply. I love this profession, mostly because of its 'potential' but there is no combat skills or profitability (is this a word?) to speak of...Any ideas on how else to make money?
Ragnaat
Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:37 pm
#3
sliding scales suck... yes that's an opinion... but one I'm gonna stick to and here's why:
- you have to juggle all the oucomes and agree with your customer on the end price - becomes more difficult as you get larger orders and a real pain if asked to do things like slice 2 full comp suits.
- on a graduated scale like the above you have to factor in different ranges for slicing weapons and armor and again it just gets confusing. Would you charge less for a 30% encumb slice then a 30% speed slice? If not, why not. And how much more would you charge for a 40+encumb slice? 20k?
- a perfect speed slice or encumb slice may be worthless to your custoemr because they are at speed cap or buffed. to them the value of an 11% speed slice is the same as a 35% speed slice - worthless - so why should they have to pay 10k more for the latter.
- the math on speed slices just doesn't lend itself to scales like this because groups of % changes result in the same actual product. A 2.0s pistol getting a 20% speed slice takes 0.4s off the gun and 21% speed slice takes 0.42s off the gun - which with rounding will just make them both have the same speed in the end - so how can you justify charging 3k more for the 21% slice?
And most importantly:
- Smugglers have ZERO impact on result, we just do the same thing everytime and the end product is the end product. How is one time I click through 3 menus worth less then the next time I do it.
- you have to juggle all the oucomes and agree with your customer on the end price - becomes more difficult as you get larger orders and a real pain if asked to do things like slice 2 full comp suits.
- on a graduated scale like the above you have to factor in different ranges for slicing weapons and armor and again it just gets confusing. Would you charge less for a 30% encumb slice then a 30% speed slice? If not, why not. And how much more would you charge for a 40+encumb slice? 20k?
- a perfect speed slice or encumb slice may be worthless to your custoemr because they are at speed cap or buffed. to them the value of an 11% speed slice is the same as a 35% speed slice - worthless - so why should they have to pay 10k more for the latter.
- the math on speed slices just doesn't lend itself to scales like this because groups of % changes result in the same actual product. A 2.0s pistol getting a 20% speed slice takes 0.4s off the gun and 21% speed slice takes 0.42s off the gun - which with rounding will just make them both have the same speed in the end - so how can you justify charging 3k more for the 21% slice?
And most importantly:
- Smugglers have ZERO impact on result, we just do the same thing everytime and the end product is the end product. How is one time I click through 3 menus worth less then the next time I do it.
iLuciferi
Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:00 am
#4
Thanks for the replys. The only other way to make money as a Smuggler alone is to sell faction points. I'll be honest here I'm not rich, but I don't really need money all that bad. The point here is vendors making ridiculous amounts of extra money as a direct result of the service we provide. Now in the event someone has a large amount of items then negotiation is possible, plus that wasn't the final list just an idea, It could be tweaked. Ragnaat great points you made:
- you have to juggle all the oucomes and agree with your customer on the end price - becomes more difficult as you get larger orders and a real pain if asked to do things like slice 2 full comp suits.Well I do have a calculator on my desk, plus I don't find addition all that difficult.
- on a graduated scale like the above you have to factor in different ranges for slicing weapons and armor and again it just gets confusing. Would you charge less for a 30% encumb slice then a 30% speed slice? If not, why not. And how much more would you charge for a 40+encumb slice? 20k? I was trying to make it as simple as possible so when someone asks me about slicing I don't have to type a paragraph worth to tell them. 40 Encumb slices would remain at the top cap I set. Really the highest cap was for all premium slices, since a 30+ speed slice may be worthless to you or me, but someone else may want it, so he will still have it on his vendor.
- a perfect speed slice or encumb slice may be worthless to your custoemr because they are at speed cap or buffed. to them the value of an 11% speed slice is the same as a 35% speed slice - worthless - so why should they have to pay 10k more for the latter. See above, and keep in mind with the Combat Rebalance I have a feeling speed will be more important at that point.
- the math on speed slices just doesn't lend itself to scales like this because groups of % changes result in the same actual product. A 2.0s pistol getting a 20% speed slice takes 0.4s off the gun and 21% speed slice takes 0.42s off the gun - which with rounding will just make them both have the same speed in the end - so how can you justify charging 3k more for the 21% slice?
Excellent point. Simplicity in the scale for one, does anyone have ideas for a 3 tier scale that would be more beneficial to the customer, while still being profitable for us?
- Smugglers have ZERO impact on result, we just do the same thing everytime and the end product is the end product. How is one time I click through 3 menus worth less then the next time I do it. So how is one time you click through the menus worth 100k more to someone else than the previous time?
Think about this: Doctor Buffs are usually 8k. Any combatant worth anything will be buffed. Is the increase that we can provide (for a longer time I might add) not worth something? Sliced items are a necessity, much like buffs. Granted we cannot control the slices, But people have to have our services. Simple as that. Thanks for the replys. More opinions guys!
XxMaddSeazyn
Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:03 am
#5
iLuciferi wrote:
Ok I have not been a Master Smuggler for nearly as long as many of you, but recently a few things regarding Slicing prices has come to my attention. As you undoubtedly know with the Smuggler revamp now delayed for an indeterminate amount of time we are essentially reduced to slice-bots as someone so elegantly put it. I am on the Wanderhome server, so I cannot vouch for any other servers, but this one seems to have many Master Smugglers slicing for around 3K per. This I have a problem with. We all know what Doc Buffs go for, but that has been discussed before, so I won't get into that comparison. I did however find a few things that have prompted me to increase my slicing prices dramatically. When slicing for a Weaponsmith, I followed him to his vendor, and upon slicing around 40 of his guns, checked his prices. We all know that a good slice can add a significant amount to the cost of a weapon, in some cases over 100k+. Yet we only usually charge 3k. He is profitting thousands from OUR service. I took a survey both in my guild and with customers to see what people thought was reasonable.
Here is my theory:
15-20% either free or 2k
21-29% 5k
30-35% 12-15k
Ask any weaponsmith(or player for that matter) and they would be happy to pay that high end fee for a slice of that magnitude. The problem is, we can't unify on pricing when there's one random guy running around doing it for 2-3k spamming in coronet. Also I like this because unlike the cred per % system it is easier to track, and less confusion withnew players (chuckle for the smuggler anyone?) Anyway just looking for some other opinions on this. Most I have talked to on Wanderhome were fine with it.
Thanks for reading.
I feel you seriously undervalue your service between 15-29%.
dorsai78664
Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:13 am
#6
Cull, I'll have to disagree with a few points.
The first is a sliding scale. This is my personal preference but I find a fixed rate works well for me. I view slicing for pay as the customer paying for the service not the result. Based on that, if I perform the service X amount of times, I will get Y amount of credits. I do make exceptions for slices below 20% but by and large, I charge for each time I perform the service. As I mentioned, it is a personal preference.
The 2nd point that I would tend to disagree is the value of a speed slice. Yes, it is true that for many, the combinations of the crafted speed of their weapon along with their speed mods makes a speed slice less valuable. However, there are numerous weapons and players (even masters) that would benefit from it. An example I used in another thread was myself as a master pistoleer. With +74 speed, I will need a 1.0 weapon to fire Last Ditch and Stopping Shot at the cap. That pushes me into krayt enhanced territory or expensive SEAs. I hope to soon increase that to +87 but I will still need a 2.0 weapon to fire at the cap. Well below the speed of the current DE-10 incarnation (2.7 - 3.8). Even going up to +90, I will need a 2.6 or better weapon to fire at the cap. That is still below the current DE-10.
We can see big benefits to be gained in speed for many of the melee weapons as well as commando weapons. Other than BH, Rifle, and TK, which other combat class can use any of their weapons at the speed cap? (That's a serious question by the way.)
After the combat balance, I believe we will see speed become much more of a factor. If the DE-10 represents a post balance pistol, the player base will not be able to dismiss speed slices outright. In the pre-balance SWG world, I believe speed has its place but in the post-balance SWG world, I believe speed will be extremely important.
Just my opinion.
CreoVex
Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:25 am
#7
iLuciferi wrote:
Here is my theory:
15-20% either free or 2k
21-29% 5k
30-35% 12-15k
My theory is .... 2.5k for every 5% for a Master Smuggler.
WHY?
Because if you want something sliced, chances are they paid more than 100k for it.And a slice on a weapon/amor that is that good, is worth the cost.
WHY?
Because if you want something sliced, chances are they paid more than 100k for it.And a slice on a weapon/amor that is that good, is worth the cost.
Anyone disagree? Well keep slicing cheap, all I know is it takes me all of 10 minutes to make 100k from people who really want the best chance slice they can get. And if they back talk, I tell them to either find someone else or go waste their time mastering this "last ditch" coded profession. That usually gets them to shut up and pay.
BTW, on several occasions people have thought they could try and bank fake(fake email bank tip)or not pay and they have learned the power of the smuggler "Destroy" option in the radial button.
BTW, on several occasions people have thought they could try and bank fake(fake email bank tip)or not pay and they have learned the power of the smuggler "Destroy" option in the radial button.
-NightRaven (ingame)
"Its one thing to master smuggler, its another thing to play as one"
EcadMistflier
Fri Jun 11, 2004 8:44 am
#8
I am going to go with the 5k for anything in the teens and 10k for anything in the twenties and above. My time, my rules.
RankorCity
Fri Jun 11, 2004 8:49 am
#9
When I was a smuggler, I charged 5K for a damage, and 3K for a speed...No 100 creds per percentage point or anything. If I got a really good damage slice, 9 times out of 10, the person I was slicing it for tipped me way more than 5K....
Ragnaat
Fri Jun 11, 2004 8:53 am
#10
What?!?! EVERYONE gets their gear sliced no matter what quality it is just is how people do things. That means 10k VKs, 15k pistols, 200k acklay batons or 5mil credit krayt t21s. Even in Bria's screwball economy I bet most public slicers never see more then 2 or 3 100k+ items a day.
CreoVex wrote:Because if you want something sliced, chances are they paid more than 100k for it
iLuciferi
Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:20 am
#11
What?!?! EVERYONE gets their gear sliced no matter what quality it is just is how people do things. That means 10k VKs, 15k pistols, 200k acklay batons or 5mil credit krayt t21s. Even in Bria's screwball economy I bet most public slicers never see more then 2 or 3 100k+ items a day. This I will definitely agree with. when I was coming up I was getting slices on garbage stuff too. I have however seen TONS of 100k+ items which is one thing that prompted this doc.
I feel you seriously undervalue your service between 15-29%. Hmmm paying 5-10k for a sub 20 slice does not seem reasonable to me, I do not want to overcharge people, I just want what we think is fair. I don't care if you charge 25k the point is I don't want people running around charging 2k for everything, but people have the right to charge whatever they want. What do you charge at that range?
Cull, I'll have to disagree with a few points.
The first is a sliding scale. This is my personal preference but I find a fixed rate works well for me. I view slicing for pay as the customer paying for the service not the result. Based on that, if I perform the service X amount of times, I will get Y amount of credits. I do make exceptions for slices below 20% but by and large, I charge for each time I perform the service. As I mentioned, it is a personal preference. This is a good point however, sometimes I feel bad about it. Example- you do 5 slices for someone and pull 4 sub 20 speed slices and 1 22 speed slice. On a fixed scale at 5k each that is 50k which seems high to me. What do you feel is a good fixed price? I have made exeptions too though.
Dorsai I agee with your points on speed. It will become more important very soon I think.
TapVallian
Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:53 am
#12
iLuciferi wrote:
Cull, I'll have to disagree with a few points.
The first is a sliding scale. This is my personal preference but I find a fixed rate works well for me. I view slicing for pay as the customer paying for the service not the result. Based on that, if I perform the service X amount of times, I will get Y amount of credits. I do make exceptions for slices below 20% but by and large, I charge for each time I perform the service. As I mentioned, it is a personal preference. This is a good point however, sometimes I feel bad about it. Example- you do 5 slices for someone and pull 4 sub 20 speed slices and 1 22 speed slice. On a fixed scale at 5k each that is 50k which seems high to me. What do you feel is a good fixed price? I have made exeptions too though.
Dorsai I agee with your points on speed. It will become more important very soon I think.
It is high.... 5 slices times 5k each is only 25K 
Tap
dorsai78664
Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:58 am
#13
I felt comfortable commenting on the sliding scale but to be honest, my price seems to be well below what many others are charging. I rarely slice for the public now so Itend to stay away from suggesting rates. I am a firm believer that one should charge whatever makes them comfortable. In the end, if both you and the customer agree on a price, it is a win-win situation.
I am comfortable charging 2000 per slice and 1500 for 4 or more pieces. I don't normally charge for less than 20%. I am comfortable with that because I have worked hard to reduce costs to increase my profit margin. Others choose to base their price on time or a percieved increase in value to the weapon. I understand that and don't have a problem with it but I am more comfortable working off of cost rather than value. That is also a personal preference.
Page 1 of 3