CUEmu - Thread Posts

Vampiric_Hoshi

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:10 pm

Well I'm definitely one for trying to find effective ways to fight and win as a smuggler so I thought I'd detail some tactics that appear to be working well so far in combat for me as well as giving some hints and tips of other specials.

Worthless Specials - The specials in Smuggler that simply arnt worth your time

LowBlow: is, believe it or not, the only special in smuggler that really is a worthless special. It only lasts for a few seconds and by all tested accounts doesn't even appear to reduce the attack speed of a target enough to worthy the action drain it costs. Whether this is a bug or "as intended" I don't know, but quite frankly what was once one of our primary attacks is now at the bottom of the "what the hell?" heap.

Questionable Specials - The specials that are ok, but preferably avoided

RecklessShot: is going to get you killed 9 times out of 10, especialy in PVP. If you don't have another ranged profression (ignoring pistoleer) to compliment smuggler then this is your most damaging special but in using it you seriously hurt your own defenses and leave yourself wide open to more damaging attacks. If you have another ranged profression then I suggest you use a special from that in replace of reckless. This IS a matter of opinion, though I have tested this vigerously and in PVP atleast its suicide.

Useful Specials - The specials you need to learn and use

RestrainingShot: was in the "worthless" category but now that we've lost a root that doesnt break on damage, restraining shot becomes that much more important. It deals a low-level damage blow and enforces a speed reduction state that DOESNT break on damage. Against a ranged fighter this doesn't really have much of a result but against anything melee it allows you to get to a safe distance and effectively stay there.

OverwhelmingShot: is a neccessity against Jedi and TK/Pikeman. If you get them with improved overwhlem they will be vulnerable to all of your state effect specials for 40 seconds. This effectively means that for 40 seconds your states will almost always work. This includes the mez from PanicShot and ConcussionShot.

ConcussionShot: is your life saver if used properly. When your health and/or action is running low, hit them with a concussion and completly mez them for 40 seconds giving you time to get to a safer distance, heal your health and let your action charge back up.

PanicShot: like concussion shot can save you. Although PanicShot doesnt root like concussion, it DOES deal low-level damage.

LastDitch: well I'm sure I don't need to explain this one. If your health is low and action is high, it will generaly reduce any player's health by atleast 2000 points sometimes twice that depending on your condition. However, it trully is a lastditch as you will literaly kill yourself in using it.

FaignDeath: easily the most important special a smuggler has at his disposal and it works in both PVE and PVE. In PVE, it will effectively stop whatever's attacking you from attacking you and keep you out of the fight long enough for a friend to help or to pull off a well timed escape. In PVP it effectively prevents anyone from being able to shoot you, however while fainged it appears you can still be poisoned, diseased and flamed though whether this is by design I have no idea.

Tactics - What you really want to know to win fights

I'll list for you 3 tactics I currently use in combat that appear to be effective. I'm sure others have many other tactics of their own and may even have ones more affective than mine, but these are great for people that are pretty fresh to PVP.

The PanicShot tactic

First and foremost, to pull off this tactic you will require another ranged profression. I personaly have Bounty Hunter right now so my non-smuggler moves I use to pull this off are underhanded and critical. I use underhanded to create a KnockDown and critical as my main damaging shot. This tactic CAN work without a knockdown effect though its not quite as effective.

Firstly, Set PanicShot as your default attack. This means throughout your fight your weapon will automagicaly spam panicshot for you.

Secondly, just before you enter combat make sure you have no weapon equiped and no target and use Center of Being. Every Smuggler gains Center of Being from the unarmed requirement of Novice Smuggler and this special will give you an added 250 (500 with TK skills) to your melee and ranged defenses for 30 seconds. It wont last your entire fight but it WILL help to reduce the likelyhood of your opponent's first two shots applying any KD's or states to you.

Then you enter combat. Assuming you have a knockdown move, fire it the second you engage your oponent. Assuming your shot is successful, you will have knocked them down and seconds later hit them with your auto-attacked PanicShot. While panicked, they will not be able to use KD recovery and so are literaly stuck laying on their back which will reduce their defenses. While your auto-attack continues to fire PanicShot, it will do a small amount of damage (my 560 dps pistol tends to do around 100 points of damage with panicshot) while keeping them in a mezed state. You can either stand there and continue this until they are eventualy incapped or you can play a slightly harder game by mixing in your damaging shots inbetween a panicshot. I use CriticalStrike for this and if I'm fast enough I can criticalstrike an enemy then get in a panicshot before they're able to get themselves off the ground. However, a smart PVPer will set KD recovery as their auto-attack. In this instance, the second you damage them their auto-attack will fire and get themselves up off the ground. However, it is very unlikely they'll have enough time to fire off a shot before you hit them again with PanicShot assuming you actually score a hit. This is the risk you have to take but if used well, using this PanicShot tactic will effectively result in your target being completly useless. They wont be able to do a thing against you.

A point to note: A friend tested this tactic against me today using a rocket launcher. The rocket launcher has an innate KD built into it, so everytime she was firing panicshot she was also KDing me keeping me perminanly on the ground.

The ConcussionShot Tactic

Sort of similar to the PanicShot tactic, but with slight differences. Because panicshot doesnt do any damage, you can't rely on it solely to drain your opponents health. This means again you will require specials from another profression (unless you are feeling brave enough to use reckless). Again, I use underhandded for a KnockDown effect and CriticalShot to do heavy damage.

Firstly (again) use Center of Being (COB) just before you enter combat to help reduce the likelyhood of your opponent managing to KD or state-effect you on their first shot. I also tend to use Overwhelm with this tactic just to make sure my knockdown moves DO KD.

Secondly, remove ALL default attacks. The reason for this is that you dont want to accidently knock the mez effect of concussion shot off and you dont want to be spamming concussion shot as its a heavy drain on action.

Then enter combat. Your very first attack will want to be concussion to freeze your opponent and allow you to get yourself into a less scrambled position as well as recover from their initial attack. Once you've got yourself to a reasonable distance, I'd hit them with Overwhelm, breaking the mez of ConcussionShot, and then very quickly use my KD shot then strike them with my damaging shot, then concuss them. If you're quick enough, you'll have KDed them, hit them with your damaging special while they are still KDed (and therefore have less defenses) and then concussed them just as they're getting up and running at you. This gives you time to again re-position and make sure your action is high. You then just repeat this process, KD-ing, striking, mezzing. If you're fast enough with the mez you can effectively deal damage and freeze them before they can even heal.

This tactic is a LOT harder to pull off that the previous as there is a much greater risk of your concussion shot missing and them being able to hit you. But if you use it well and get used to it, it can actually be a very effective tool against a Jedi, especialy if you occasionaly mix in a bomb droid which your opponent is mezzed. The 40 seconds concussion gives you is more than enough time to call a droid and detonate it.

The RestrainingShot Tactic

The RestrainingShot tactic is purely a tactic used againt melee opponents. It is almost complely wasted on ranged opponents so make sure you use this against the right mob or player. Like my previous tactics, I use underhandded for a KD special and CriticalStrike for my damaging move. I also mix in the odd concussionshot to help me recover my action and health.

Like the previous two, make sure you have COB running before you enter combat to reduce any likelyhood ofa KD or state being applied on you in your opponents first shot. Also, I would suggest having NO auto-attack set to reduce unwated action drain.

Now enter combat and my first shot would be my KD special, followed closely by my damaging special and concussion shot. This gives me time to get myself to a more desired range and recover from any first attack they may have gotten on me. I'm using a pistol so I'll hang at my 35m range and prepare the next phase. I hit burstrun before I strike to allow me a slight advantage in initial speed and KD them which breaks the mez and while they're down I strike them with overwhelm and then restraining. Restraining effectively reduced their attack speed and should allow you, if you're good enough with those arrow keys, to keep out of their melee range. From here on in I'll spam them with a combination of KD and critical strikes occasionaly using a mez to make sure my health and action stay high. Unlike the previous two tactics, this tactic allows you to keep out of a meleer range even if your panic or concussion shots miss or fail which against a player than effectively incap you in 6 very quick hits can be the difference between a win and lose.

All 3 of these tactics are very similar and each utlise the smuggler's primary benefits, the ability to "control" your opponent. They don't necesserily have to be used on their own as you can mix them in with any combination of other attack styles to pull off an equickly effective result.

Message Edited by Vampiric_Hoshi on 07-08-2005 04:13 PM

Abandon all hope

Antonnio

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:30 pm

#2

I like your posts. I am not a Bounty Hunter anymore, but I have charge shot from Carbineer and that could replace Underhanded shot I guess.

I'll try out your ideas and tactics and see how they work out.

Smuggler4LifeSmuggler4LifeSmug  |
gler4LifeSmuggler4LifeSmuggler  | Antonnio J. Rossi
4LifeSmuggler4LifeSmuggler4Lif  | Captain of the Lone Wolf
eSmuggler4LifeSmuggler4LifeSmu  | For Profit Only
ggler4LifeSmuggler4LifeSmuggle  | *   *   *
r4LifeSmuggler4LifeSmuggler4Li  |  
feSmuggler4LifeSmuggler4LifeSm  | My Holonet Page
uggler4LifeSmuggler4LifeSmuggl  |
er4LifeSmuggler4LifeSmuggler4L  | We're made to suffer. It's our lot in life.

KenjiTokugawa

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:41 pm

#3

Vampiric_Hoshi wrote:

While your auto-attack continues to fire PanicShot, it will do a small amount of damage (my 560 dps pistol tends to do around 100 points of damage with panicshot) while keeping them in a mezed state. You can either stand there and continue this until they are eventualy incapped

I hope that this is changed soon. I wouldn't mind Panic Shot being stripped of it's damage ability myself.

Jas' --- Jundland Wayfarer
"Once a Ranger, always a Ranger"

Antonnio

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:59 pm

#4

KenjiTokugawa wrote:

Vampiric_Hoshi wrote:

While your auto-attack continues to fire PanicShot, it will do a small amount of damage (my 560 dps pistol tends to do around 100 points of damage with panicshot) while keeping them in a mezed state. You can either stand there and continue this until they are eventualy incapped

I hope that this is changed soon. I wouldn't mind Panic Shot being stripped of it's damage ability myself.

I don't mind if its damage is stripped, as long as the devs provide it with an animation so people in a group know it is active on target. In combat with an uneducated group, it is worthless.

Smuggler4LifeSmuggler4LifeSmug  |
gler4LifeSmuggler4LifeSmuggler  | Antonnio J. Rossi
4LifeSmuggler4LifeSmuggler4Lif  | Captain of the Lone Wolf
eSmuggler4LifeSmuggler4LifeSmu  | For Profit Only
ggler4LifeSmuggler4LifeSmuggle  | *   *   *
r4LifeSmuggler4LifeSmuggler4Li  |  
feSmuggler4LifeSmuggler4LifeSm  | My Holonet Page
uggler4LifeSmuggler4LifeSmuggl  |
er4LifeSmuggler4LifeSmuggler4L  | We're made to suffer. It's our lot in life.

roski316

Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:11 pm

#5

Excellent post, thanks for the information! I'm going to test these strategies tonite!

Tihor Atir-Ilhok

Suicide Valley Alliance (SVA),Suicide Valley, Dantooine, Farstar

"Charge In, Clone Out..."

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Vampiric_Hoshi

Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:36 pm

#6

If you strip the damage from PanicShot it just becomes a carbon copy of ConcussionShot only it lasts half the time and doesnt root which, basicaly, turns it into a completly worthless special (basicaly the same deal we currently have with LowBlow versus Restraining).

If they remove the damage, they need to make PanicShot put on some other kind of state, like possibly a KD or something to make it usable still comared with Concussion.

Abandon all hope

KenjiTokugawa

Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:51 pm

#7

Vampiric_Hoshi wrote:

If you strip the damage from PanicShot it just becomes a carbon copy of ConcussionShot only it lasts half the time and doesnt root which, basicaly, turns it into a completly worthless special (basicaly the same deal we currently have with LowBlow versus Restraining).

If they remove the damage, they need to make PanicShot put on some other kind of state, like possibly a KD or something to make it usable still comared with Concussion.

Panic Shot would still be a great tool for pulling in PvE and decent backup in PvP if Concussion Shot misses.

Or looking at it another way...If panic shot can be spammed until the target is dead, then what is the use of any other special in the entire game?

Jas' --- Jundland Wayfarer
"Once a Ranger, always a Ranger"

Graxul

Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:29 pm

#8

Disarming shot variations and startle shot variations can also be spammed at a target to prevent the target from attacking until they are dead...yet they have been able to do this since the beginning of CU yet there is no public outcry over these specials. Advanced startle shot also does a lot more damage than panic shot. If people don't like panic shot as a mez then make panic shot a delay attack like it used to be and more similar to advanced startle shot's delay effect...maybe just make panic shot have a longer delay effect than advanced startle and deal slightly less damage than advanced startle shot. I'm of the opinion that if we had advanced startle shot put in smuggler renamed it improved panic shot and removed the position up effect people would still scream for panic to be nerfed but not want startle shot nerfed. Simply because an ability is a smuggler ability that is effective doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed.

I'd personally like to see a test done. Take a master rifleman with advanced startle shot and another player...for fun a jedi...have the two players duel and tell the rifleman to spam advanced startle shot on the Jedi. See how fast the Jedi drops dead unable to attack. Next test have a master smuggler duel a Jedi and have the smugglerspam improved panic shot. See how fast the Jedi drops dead unable to attack. I'm guessing that you will find that eventhough the Jedi "may" be able to heal while delayed with startle they will still die quicker when attacked by advanced startle shot spam. The Jedi would run out of force from healing his/her health from the damage dealt by startle shot. Panic shot and concussion shot are not viable to be spammed by themselves in order to kill a jedi because panic shot does a very small amount of damage and concussion shot uses a lot of action. You could alternate panic shot with a damage attack from another profession but each time you used the other damage attack you would break the mez and allow the Jedi to heal and/or attack you. You would then have to wear the Jedi's force down to near nothing and then you would be able to kill them. To me advanced startle shot is much more effective in this regard since it delays and does pretty decent damage for a delay attack.

Graxul Starweaver-Starsider
Grax Oblivion-Starsider

Vampiric_Hoshi

Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:50 pm

#9

"Or looking at it another way...If panic shot can be spammed until the target is dead, then what is the use of any other special in the entire game?"

The damage PanicShot does is far too small to be the only move used. It was only doing 79 points of damage on a TK/Pikeman today and that was with my 560 DPS pistol ... can you imagine trying to incap a 3k health player when you're only doing 79 points of damage per second? It'd take weaks.

I haden't gotten a chance to test the panicshot tactics on a TK/Pikeman template until tonight. It worked brilliantly. The TK/Pikeman literaly only got two hits on me which was the first two strikes he pulled off before I was able to panic him. Once I got the first panic in that was it.. he didn't manage to get a single hit in and after about 5 minutes of panicshot/underhanded/criticalstrike he finaly fell. I have to say that this is quite an achievement. Very few ranged profression templates are successful against a TK/Pikeman simply because of how much they absorb your attack by and the fact that their Pikeman attacks can easily out-damage most ranged.

Abandon all hope

fishbrains

Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:54 pm

#10

LowBlow seems to work for me in PvE...I have yet to test it in PvP though. I'll test this a soon as I can. Great post though

Joras 'Godfather' Kal'lan/Aethen Dor
Master Smuggler/Master Officer Sunrunner's Elder Smuggler

Ramona_Garcia

Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:07 am

#11

I have set up my hotkeys so that when CoB runs out I can easily unequip my weapon, reapply it, and then reequip my weapon. Lag sometimes plays havoc with it, but it usually works. And concussion shot gives you ample time to reapply cob before shooting again.

Ramona Garcia
Dancer
Neutron Pixies

A couple of stories

Vampiric_Hoshi

Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:44 am

#12

Thats the beauty of concussion shot. So much of combat is spent with you panicking and trying to react quickly to what your opponent is doing by slamming in moves as quick as your fingers will allow.. which doing so typicaly gets yaself into all kinds of situations you'd rather avoid. Concussion then allows you to recompose yaself, get ya action back up and go at it again with a cooler head.

I've tried lowblow in both PVE and PVP and it does work but its effects are so barely noticable compared to the effects of restrain then its simply a wasited move. The fact is, restrain a snare (which doesnt seem to break on damage) and a speed reduction which effectively gives you TWO speed reductions as aposed to lowblow's one. This really was a matter of devs looking at specials and not knowing what to do with them. Why else would they give smuggler two moves that are exactly the same... and then give us two other moves that are praticaly the same (panicshot/concussionshot)

Abandon all hope

Jackdurdan2000

Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:21 am

#13

Absolutely Excellent Post, this should get a sticky, I do both pvp and pve, I have used some of these tactics I have yet to beat a Jedi but you bet I am going to try this tonight, with one of my friends. I am also a BH/Smuggler, gonna love this if it works. for those melee guys I usually use Pistol Whip/Critcal/Consussion/Critical/panic/Crictical, give that a whirl, they usually dont even get a shot off. And I usally can't get my dam psitol unequipped for COB, but I thought it didn't matter if it was or not, and why not use Duelist stance I have that macroed also. That also helps with defense.

Dragco Zenox

Master Smuggler/Master Bounty Hunter
Rebel ("Krenal")
Have u Snuggled your Smuggler today? br>
"Smuggler revamp when Jedi stop complaining"

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