Smuggler Archive

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GreenMarine wrote:

On the issue of needing to be factioned to be TEF'd to be attacked by stormtroopers...

What if attacks from contraband violations ignore faction or come from "unfactioned" versions of the NPCs? I'm not sure if this meshes with Keldarin's plans for GCW consistancy, so I have to talk to him, but this would mean that being scanned and attacked would not result in a faction TEF. You wouldn't suddenly get ganked by other factional players because you were scanned.

This also solves the farming problem, because these NPCs would no longer give faction points.

Just one possibility...

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That works - create a police force. Soldiers of the civil war shouldn't be involved in policing or punishing those that break the law anyway.

SMUGGLER_CAYLIN WROTE

1. Agreed, death isn't much of a punishment. Time sinks are though. An impound lot or something equally suitable as a deterrant. They aren't prevented from having the item, it's just a major inconvenience if they get caught.

How about imprisonment on Dath as a punishment

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BobaMeng wrote:

My number 1 grievence with the contraband situation is based on my story as follows:

So my friend and I are grinding Armorsmith and he unlocks. we create his new jedi toon, land in town.
- not liking the clothes issued, we delete all his clothes, and items.
- his toon is 10 minutes old, no Faction + or - in anything.
- no weapons, no inventory for that matter.
- we land in espa to run to the PA hall to kit him out.

durring the loading time, a ST stops us, and starts scanning us.

We are informed that we are a KNOWN rebel Sympathizer and then killed

The guy was 10 minutes, maybe 11 by that point.

I am all for the game being chalanging, and what not, but GEZ, no weapon, no armor, no faction + or -

PLEASE consider these kinds of things in the smuggler revamp. previous history should be considered

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The Jedi toon might be minutes old but the playersare NOT that stupid. You fly into a starport where STs are gonna be and you DON'T expect to be attacked? Come on!!! Why don't you do walk up to VADER and say "Hi I am A Jedi, Jedi want to dance?"

I completely agree with GM's logic of high reward=high risk(and risk of actual danger from a PC.. not disturbingly weak PvE stuff)

but I'll play along and add this idea for a compromise...

IDEA 1

Allow for a bartender or some other underworld NPC to be able to give out the visibility information of a character... examples of things this NPC might say..

"Jabba the hutt is being less then satisfied with your service"
"Jabba the hutt has no problem with the work your doing"

but let it also inform the smuggler if a bounty is about to be placed or is already placed on their head...

"Jabba the hutt has placed a 200k bounty on your head, to get in his good graces, you must pay Jabba 400k.. but be careful, odds are the bounty hunters will know your on your way to jabba's"
or
"Jabba the hutt is considering putting a bounty on your head and is already starting to talk to bounty hunters.. QUICK, to avoid the bounty, you better give jabba a cut from your business"

This way they can avoid the bounty or get rid of the bounty if they're willing to pay a lot.... this could also be justification for smugglers selling their services for a LOT of credits.... (they'll need to charge enough to pay off any bounty that the crime lord might place on them)

IDEA 2

I'm not sure if your going to allow people to work for more then one boss at a time. An amazing idea might be if you can ask your employer to protect you from another crime lord that you stole from, by hiring "someone" to try to kill the bounty hunter before they get to you(the smuggler)... (this person would act like a personal bodyguard for the smuggler... ofcourse the smuggler would probably have to pay the crime lord for this service)

In essence it would allow the smuggler(who has no interest in PvP) to group with someone who can protect them... if anyone can do say 4-5 missions that are difficult to do.. and get the title.. "jabba's enforcer" or "borvo's enforcer" and those people will be licenced to act as bodyguards for smugglers who have bounty's on them.... but only for that specific crime lord...

yeah probably too involved... but it would actually add content to every combat class, and give even MORE ways for someone who doesn't like PvP to avoid it... and still allowing them to take the big reward missions...

(I also like the idea of a smuggler that dies to a bh, losing all of the illegal stuff in his inventory... this would encourage them to take a body guard, even at a high price... or to pay back the crime lord... because they risk losing a lot more then their life if they die)

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Kaelle_DB wrote:

Wow this all sounds really sweet. I'm jealous, canCarbineers have a GreenMarine too?

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I was thinking the same thing...I'm not even a BH and I enjoy reading Green Marines comments.....This is the type of exchanges I wish all professions got from the devs!

Great work GM

Ed'rick

Just a minor suggestion...

If there were to be a 'spy' class, it would likely be the smuggler. As such, for the GCW work, I'd suggest removing base registration from the planetary map and allow smugglers to be able to slice an opposing faction base terminal in order to get a base time (assuming bases will still have times). The whole 'having an alt that checks base times' feels very unstarwarsy to me...

Thanks!

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GreenMarine wrote:

See this link for part 1:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=smuggler&message.id=96114

Part 1 reached over 1200 posts in less than a week. Clearly the smuggler & bounty hunter professions care deeply about the design of any kind of smuggling system. I'm really happy with the level of response. A lot of people who don't normally post are chiming in with their opinion and, in general, the discussion has been civil.

I want to try and distill the discussion down and start to find solutions. Here were the three big issues that turned into long discussions.

Summary 1: The key argument was over the impact of "visibility" punishments for ripping off suppliers or failing smuggling missions. There is a portion of the player base that desires PvP and a portion that does not. The main issue is the possibility of "involuntary PvP" or a player gaining a bounty who wants to be a smuggler but not participate in PvP.

Solution: The solution I like most is to have the mission suppliers offer two types of mission for each skill level. The punishments for failing or cheating a mission then become:

• Normal Mission: You lose NPC faction with that supplier. You lose a small amount of GCW faction if the supplier belongs toa faction. You could possibly be ambushed by thugs from that supplier.


• CriticalMission: Harsher versions of the above + you gain visibility.

The rewards for critical missions would be somewhat higher than normal missions. Also, some types of illegal cargo would only be available via critical missions. The RISK is possible PvP as well as other penalties. The REWARD is rare components (if you cheat the supplier) or better cash.

What about normal players scanned with illegal items? For now, it seems reasonable that we don't add visibility for normal players. That's too much to ask of the player base as a whole. Later, we could possibly add a level of illegality above Highly Illegal (say, Military Class) that gains visibility. It seems wise to leave this area open for future discuss, but not include it in a revamp.

No GreenMarine noooo, you were so close to having the whole BH aswell as the smuggler community simply love you. Player bounties have been on the backburner for FAR FAR too long. The time is now for player bounties. It still remains as a risk vs reward situation, you take the RISK of using a sliced (or other illegal item) and getting hunted, and you are REWARDED with a generally more efficient weapon.

Summary 2: The second major issue revolved around the punishments for being caught with contraband:

1. Some players feel that dying isn't enough of a punishment.


2. Some players recommended a faction hit.


3. Some players feel that storm troopers are too weak.


4. Players don't like that only storm troopers scan.

Solution: The solution obviously has several parts. We need to discuss more what the punishments should be. There are a few types of punishment that we can draw from:

• Loss of GCW faction.


• Loss of NPC faction.


• Combat & risk of death.


• Confiscation of the illegal goods.

One possibility might be to make it so that the scanning NPC isn't the NPC that attacks. Instead he "calls for backup" and the backup is relative to the player's level. This brings up the possibility of a group of players using a low level smuggler to spawn lower level faction targets. Thesolution to stopping faction farming of scan spawned NPCs is to prevent them from giving GCW faction. There are many other legitimate ways to gain faction. Even if it seems inconsistant, it does make somesense that the Rebels aren't necessarily going to reward a player for killing troopers just doing their job.

This also means that high level smugglers would be dealing with security forces tougher than your average Stormtrooper.

It seems that we should make more factions other than Imperial scan. Why can't the Rebels scan in a Rebel controlled territory? They aren't going to like spice abuse much either. Rebel commanders could then have some immunity from scans in their home regions. Naboo's Royal Security Force (a neutral faction) might also scan and have their own forces to deal with violators.

Summary 3: The third major issue was that smugglers are worried that increased punishments for using illegal items, like spices and sliced gear, will cause a depression in their markets.

Solution: Actually, I disagree with this premise. I don't think there will be a market depression. On the contrary, if I do my job right, there will be a market increase. If spices become reasonably competitive with chef food, or complement chef food in some way, more players will buy them. Similarly, we should be able to modify slicing but also retain its value.

This is an issue I need to think about more before I develop a complete opinion.

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At this point, we know the arguments from every side in the debate. There have been enough posts for us to understand the views involved. In this thread, let's talk about possible solutions and compromises. Instead of perpetuating the debate on PvP vs. PvE, look for ways that the two views can be reconciled. This is the next key in effective game design for massively multiplayer games.

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