Smuggler Archive

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TomoRainer wrote:


Option #5 is good because, in my opinion, the spice market will be best here, with the most options in terms of markets and selling strategies. It won't involve crafting, which is a negative to some, but the concept is similar to the resource system, which is after all the biggest part of quality craftsmanship. It's also my favorite because the underlying theory already exists and has been proven to work pretty well, whereas the necessities of #3 would be much harder to figure out. (Enhancers as a random drop, like krayt tissue? Repeatable quest items? Upper-tier smuggling missions? Drawbacks and complexities to each.)

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Do you mean Option 8 (Smuggled spice whose stats shift like resources) here?

Anyway, 8's my preference out of those; could be interesting to run a poll on who likes which the most.

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TomoRainer wrote:
Spending far too much time in the economics forum has lead me to a few hypotheses about changing the spice system:

1) if all spice is smuggled, and it's all the same quality, prices will be low, propped up only by the time it takes to smuggle it in (see: architects, ship chassis)

2) if all spice is smuggled, and unlimited or large quantities can be enhanced through some process, prices will remain low as supply of best stuff is readily available, blocking casual smugglers from market participation

3) if all spice is smuggled, but it's only feasible to enhance a small portion of it, that portion will sell extremely well while the rest does okay

4) if all spice is crafted, and it's all the same quality, prices will be even lower than hypothesis #1, as it won't even take playing time to produce

5) if all spice is crafted, but it's only feasible to enhance a small portion of it, see #3

6) if all spice is crafted, and it can be experimented, see #2

7) if some spice is smuggled, and some spice is crafted, whichever is better (doubtlessly the crafted) will sell well while the other just takes up space (see: #2)

8) if all spice is smuggled, but is available in spawns of varying quality and limited quantity (akin to resources), the best stuff will have an absurd market, the good stuff will have a good market, the okay stuff will have a slow market, and the poor stuff won't sell


Out of these, #3, 5, and 8 seem to be best for the smuggler community: each one will create multiple markets, allowing power smugglers to create a serious business out of spice dealing, while not locking the more casual smugglers out of competing in their own markets. The thing each of these options has in common is a spectrum of quality, which will drive up the prices of the high-end stuff, but a limit to the quantity of that good spice in such a way that many players will still need to purchase mid-grade spice despite the extreme reluctance of most people to buy anything that isn't "the best." This is tricky but should be doable.

From here, option #5 should probably be eliminated because, judging from the replies here, most of us would rather smuggle than craft.

Option #3 is a good one because it will have a healthy market, depend on smuggling, but allow those who like crafting to add that to the process as well. The specifics of spice enhancers, where they come from and how they're kept rare, is the key to this plan.

Option #5 is good because, in my opinion, the spice market will be best here, with the most options in terms of markets and selling strategies. It won't involve crafting, which is a negative to some, but the concept is similar to the resource system, which is after all the biggest part of quality craftsmanship. It's also my favorite because the underlying theory already exists and has been proven to work pretty well, whereas the necessities of #3 would be much harder to figure out. (Enhancers as a random drop, like krayt tissue? Repeatable quest items? Upper-tier smuggling missions? Drawbacks and complexities to each.)

Anyway, it's quite possible I've overlooked an option for spices, or have a skewed view on some of the ones I've laid out here, but I hope this breakdown is useful in helping us think about which direction we want to take ourselves.

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Good catch, Wes, I did mean #8 instead of 5 in that spot. I've edited it to clear things up (and also to make you look crazy to future generations).

Ternque, I'd go so far as to say that the quality/usefulness of spice isn't just a big factor, it's the only factor that will determine whether any market for spice can exist in the first place. I'm thinking about these options with the assumption that spice will be good and lots of players will want to use it. Which is something of a rash assumption to make--but if spice isn't useful and desired, it doesn't really matter which system we use to get our hands on it because NONE of it's going to be worth anything. So if we're going to talk about how to create a spice market we may as well do so with that assumption as the foundation of our thought.

Whether mid-grade spice will ever sell depends entirely on the demand for spice. If demand is high enough and the supply of great stuff is low enough that buyers can't always find the best, I think a market for subpar spice will exist. If, on the other hand, there's enough supply of great spice to meet or surpass demand, then the market should act like #2, where anything but the best stuff goes ignored.

Cloud, those are some great ideas, ones that could make a crafted/smuggled system viable. It would definitely provide the most options in terms of play styles and innovation. That complexity is also a downside, though, because it'd be really hard (IMO) to make each type of spice--smuggled, crafted, crafted+refined--desireable to the players. If a type isn't desired, it won't sell; and if it won't sell, there goes one dimension of the market. It'd be easy to end up with spice composite, where everyone goes for the type it's been decided is best and you may as well not bother with anything else.

That's not to say it's impossible, though, just that it's harder to do right, which is why I personally favor a system where spice spawns in like resources, a method that's been tested and works pretty well. However, if the community's interested in hashing out a system like you and Hotdog have been working over, I definitely think it could work--and, given the deeper complexity of it all, it might end up as the most fun and diverse option of them all.

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DRWolfe wrote:
Myself, I'd like to smuggle it. There have been many suggestions on how to go about this. This is a bit rough, and needs tons more thought and detail, but here's an idea...

Spice would be actually sold through various dealers (NPCs) scattered throughout the galaxy (in cantina back-rooms and other such likely places). A method of making these PC dealers and making PC cities more useful would be to make PC cantina owners able to place these dealers in their cantinas.

Each dealer is linked to a particular criminal group (Jabba, Valerian, etc). Missions are generated by an NPC at the criminal group's base of operations for Smugglers to deliver spice to their dealers (or a cantina owner uses an option on his dealer to place an order for spice to be delivered). If it is only PC cantina dealers, missions should also be generated for NPC deliveries so there are always missions available.

The Smuggler takes the mission and the spice is placed in his inventory via a special container item that cannot be opened (like the supply crate for Whip's Vehicular Control missions). All law enforcement officers in cities (including Imperials) and Imperials in the wilds would do random scans (like the Imperials currently do) and this item would be considered contraband. If this item is discovered in a scan and the scanning trooper is not killed within a certain time, the shipment is lost, the Smuggler's faction for that criminal group is reduced, and possibly the Smuggler generates a little "notoriety" to be placed on the Bounty Hunter teminals. If the shipment is delivered successfully, the Smuggler is paid the mission reward, his faction for that criminal group goes up, and possibly his "notoriety" goes down. The crate is then broken up automatically into however many units of spice were ordered and made available to be purchased from the dealer.

Message Edited by DRWolfe on 01-11-2005 09:49 AM

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I like this idee, an some other ideas in this thread.

For the question craft or smuggle, i would say remove the spice crafting but allow the smuggler slice the transportcontainer (give little bit visibility if slice sucess, and more visibilitie if not sucess) and give visibility depent an amount the spice you put out. This spice have regular Effekt, now allow the smuggler experiment with it, macke the effekt stronger or reduce the downtime. This spice you can sale over drug dealer placed bye cantina owner in backrooms. In this idea the smuggler is not the chemist that create the drug, but it modifie it to macke own business and have the risk get high bounty at his head.
I this content the smuggling mission become more important and you have choise just to smuggle, or get more money about to modifier and sell the drugs. Then you dont need the spice crafting three, then the modifie spice can be add to slicing or underworld three. So you can use this tree for more unarmed combat (somthing like the dirty fight but unarmed. may be the same specials, last ditch and lowblow but just with vibroknuckler or somting similar)

The drug dealer. Here is the question how you faction standing with the (jabba, nym, hutt, ...) if the standing positive, the nsc will sell you somthing, if the standing negative the nsc dont talk to you. So you have to find the dealer with right factions standing compare to you. (Prise and amount of spice you can bye from the nsc). If lot of schmuggler done the mission to deliver the spice the price will sink, if less of the smuggler done this the prise rise ..and if non schmuggler done this the nsc sell nothing. Its interesting if all schmuggler make just mission for Jabba, then no Valarien nsc sell the drugs. All this must have effekt of the prise for the schmuggling missions.

This are just some ideas but if you mix it with the ideas from this thread, it have lot of potential for the Schmuggler.

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DragonSnack wrote:

You taking a poll?

Mark me down for # 6

isnt there a write up somewhere of being able to loot chemicals ffrom star ships and those chemicals are crafted into some very good spices?

I also seem to remember something about smuggleing spices for hire and being able to skim some of the goods or keep a porton of the payment. which whould grant us visiility on teh BH's boards?

If I get on the BH terminals do you think I couldhire a Jedi to protect me?

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Astrus wrote:

...btw the Devs are starting to RAHK eh guys?.....im totally surprised at the attention being given to the game as of late

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thats what happens when they start to notice a trend in the money (aka money leaving or at the least shifting to another soe game in the case of eq2). You want people to stay loyal through new games cropping up you better show them the game is worth staying for...feel the economy based love.

When I was smuggler I really enjoyed the crafting side of things but was equally unhappy with the lack of smuggling!

I'd like to see a smuggler needing to run missions to get the schematic and ingredients for a factory run of spice. Once completed the smuggler crafts and sells the spice. The smuggler would have to pay a set amount for the schematic and ingredients.

You would have to smuggle the schem and ingredients from the giver to the final sale. This would have to be made an interesting process so that repeated runs dont become boring.

The higher you are in the line of smuggler that allows you to smuggle/craft spices the larger a run you will be granted per smuggle and you should have access to more powerful spices.