Smuggler Archive
Thread: Depending On Smugglers
StGabriel wrote:
If you don't like the ideas presented here please address them.
Your ideas so far consist of endorsing that Smugglers become cute accessories rather than cogs in the galaxy's machinery. You seem to want us to be decoration rather than have any unique, substantive role to play, and you want to use illegal services without facing any risk.
So your ideas have been addressed and dismissed. What you hope to accomplish at this point is a mystery. My guess is that you want the "I tried to help Smugglers" feather in your cap to give yourself credibility in the Devs' eyes when you try to dismantle the profession on the Correspondent forum once the revamp is underway. You'll fight for all our toys but zero consequences for their use.
But that's putting a thought into your head, and that's obviously something you frown upon.
I get that this is the perception but it simply is not realistic. High end PvP is all about high resist composite. If I have 65% composite and my opponent has sliced his up to 90% then I am taking 3.5 times more damage than him. I might as well not use my sword, it will make as much of a difference.
If slicing is to provide a significant benefit then it will be essentially necessary for high end play. If you want slicing, etc., to truly be a choice then its impact on the game will have to be lessened.
StGabe.
I really think we need to stop this silliness now. Guys, he's just getting everyone's nose out of joint like he did during the panic shot debate. If we stop answering him, he runs out of ammo to message back with. Simple as that.
It's like trying to convince a southern Baptist to convert to Satanism...not gonna happen.
Meh. Far from it, as I have explained several times.
You want me to depend on a smuggler more than I depend on any pure crafting profession (apparently) and more than I depend on entertainers or medics despite a general player feeling that the game is already full of too many time-consuming dependencies.
And I'm just telling you that other players are going to severely dislike this and would be adamantly opposed if this were ever really implemented. That's a reality that would be better address now than later.
And there are lots of ways to make players depend on and be greatly aided by Smugglers without creating a big smuggle timesink or restricting player options.
But anyway, I have to take off for the evening. I'll be around early tomorrow morning (I'm in Europe) to once again address replies as I can.
Flame on.
(I really did intend this as simply a construction discussion however and I hope that we can focus on that -- whether you like what I'm saying or not, I think you'll find that I represent a common sentiment among non-Smugglers)StGabe.
for some strange reason my post went out 3 times. this is the finished version ....
StGabriel wrote:
A lot of the things that come up, however, necessarily have an impact on other players. Contraband scans or for a more recent item (albeit one that has been in the game for quite some time), opening maglocks, cut into the game that other non-smugglers play. As a non-smuggler, when solo'ing caves, I find that I cannot open most of the containers. As a non-smuggler and a rebel or neutral I find that I have no defense against scans when I am solo'ing or in a group that does not contain a smuggler.
And I'll be frank, I don't find this very "fun". Why should I be penalized just for not having a regular smuggler groupy? Why should I not be able to access a significant portion of loot when I solo?
Message Edited by JediKozel on 03-23-2004 01:08 PM
StGabriel wrote:
Gabriel, you are missing a very important point. In order to enjoy your class, you DO NOT NEED TO CARRY CONTRABAND, HOLO-GRIND, or LOOT CONTAINERS. As simple as that.
I get that this is the perception but it simply is not realistic. High end PvP is all about high resist composite. If I have 65% composite and my opponent has sliced his up to 90% then I am taking 3.5 times more damage than him. I might as well not use my sword, it will make as much of a difference.
If slicing is to provide a significant benefit then it will be essentially necessary for high end play. If you want slicing, etc., to truly be a choice then its impact on the game will have to be lessened.
StGabe.
Now this is just getting frustrating, and bordering on being deliberately obtuse.
If you are fighting a player with sliced composite, and you do not, then he DESERVES to win. Know why? Because he CHOSE to accept the risk of travelling with a full suit of sliced armor. Thus, the entire system of risk vs. reward. If you are some sort of combat tank, then the risk of being attacked by a bunch of stormtroopers is fairly minimal -- this is the advantage you gain by dumping all of your skill points into fighting arts. Risk vs. reward.
And if you're fighting with a Smuggler, then you should be able to mop the floor with him, since he dumped so many skill points into smuggling. Again, risk vs. reward.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
I love debate guys, but at this point I think we need to take 10 steps away from the post button on this thread. StGabriel is here voicing an outside opinion from his perspective as a player I believe.
We need to respect that, even though we (the smugglers)vehemently oppose the idea.
I have no respect for my would-be executioner.
And I can tell you that this is probably the most extreme example of player laziness that's out in SWG. I know a number of people who want this to be a tougher, more interdependent game, and several have already quit because the difficulty and dangerof SWG is currently rivalled only by The Sims. There are a number of people who want this to be a challenging game, and who don't want it to be so focused on soloing - even if it takes away their relative power.
Friends and I agree that the most fun we've had in this game have been huge group outings to dangerous places where death was imminent and the consequences were high. Remember trekking to the far corners of Yavin with a squad of Marksmen, Medics, and Scouts, with maybe a few pieces of bone armor, some lowly Scout Blasters, basic Stims, no transportation, and corpse runs? THAT was adventure, and THAT framed the sort of game I and many others hoped this would be - one where your survival in hostile areas depended on a balanced group with a variety of skills. That's not just my opinion, that's the opinion of most people I've known since Beta, and believe me, most of us are increasingly weary of howthe Devsseem to be catering to the lowest common denominator of player laziness.
So any time I see someone suggest that it needs to be even MORE easy to solo, that's going to set me off. It's contrary to everything I've hoped for since I started reading about SWG.
Well at risk of inflaming the situation more the debate has turned now to whether Gabe does represent the players, or just his own class, or whether he has some other, more personal objective which involves nerfing Smugglers.
Personally I feel this is a case of make your own class stronger by nerfing the other 38.
Either way it's getting out of hand and doesn't need some of the insults were seeing.
StGabriel wrote:
Actually, the same is true for a Smuggler, unless you decide to carry sliced items and spice, in which case you made a CHOICE to depend on a Smuggler moreso than what is REQUIRED. See the difference?
It's just not a choice any more than using a rifle is a choice as a rifleman. With the option of sliced equipment and spices in the game I will not be competitive with other players without using these things.
Smugglers content giving options is cool for everyone. Smuggler content taking away options just becomes a pain in the butt and will be unpopular with all the other players. If its unpopular enough then it just won't happen whether Smugglers need the change or not. Regardless the better option is to simply look for solutions that dovetail well with other professsions in the first place.
StGabe.
Yes it is a choice. You chose to buy that particular item. You chose to take it to a Smuggler. You chose to have a Smuggler slice it. As for you being competitive ... you can either 'buy a better weapon' or be a little slower (or less damage) than someone who did get the slice.
Although I am not a swordsman ... I have Pistols ... and the difference between a Krayt and non-Krayt can be huge. Heck, the difference between Krayt & Krayt can be huge depending on how it is made. An Un-sliced high end, Krayt can be better than a Sliced "average" DX2.
It is all choices ... getting an item sliced is making it a 'higher quality' without the 'higher quality price' ... at a cost of it becoming contraband. Now if you slice the higher end DX2 (as I have done) then it is that much better. But how many people will spend $4.25M on a Pistol? And then turn it into Contraband? I have ... but not many do.