Smuggler Archive
Thread: The events of the last 3 days have been intresting.
SmugglerPie wrote:
Here is the bottom line.
You own a company. Which of the following two groups is going to make you want to work harder and make things better?
- Your customers tell you what a good job you're doing, and are always nice and polite when you talk to them.
- Your customers are yelling about what a crappy job you're doing, what a crappy service you're providing, and they are leaving in waves which is resulting in a decline in profits.
Now, I'm no expert, but if I owned that company, and #2 was happening, I'd make sure to kick things into high gear and try to please my customers. That's where my paycheck comes from, after all.
Good point. But there aren't just two types of clients. You can be constructive without kissing hind end and you can be helpful without giving an inch.
I am a represtative of a Law Department of a large Retail corporation. I represent them to the support and development team of the technology department. Sometimes developers get it completely wrong, so what do you do? If I were to yell at them, talk to their managers, act all pissy and use the passive aggressive approach, NOTHING will get accomplished. They'll just lift their shoulders and say "what is he all angry about?"
When I bring documentation (constructive) of opportunities of improvement (criticism) it promotes a work environment that people want to work. Yelling and kicking will just make people (greenmarine) leave.
What do you do when IT promised you a system upgrade two years ago and never delivered? What if you provided them all the specs for what you needed and made people available (at the expense of your department) for meetings, testing, and feedback and still nothing happened?
Makris wrote:
I am a represtative of a Law Department of a large Retail corporation. I represent them to the support and development team of the technology department. Sometimes developers get it completely wrong, so what do you do? If I were to yell at them, talk to their managers, act all pissy and use the passive aggressive approach, NOTHING will get accomplished. They'll just lift their shoulders and say "what is he all angry about?"
When I bring documentation (constructive) of opportunities of improvement (criticism) it promotes a work environment that people want to work. Yelling and kicking will just make people (greenmarine) leave.
dlc3007 wrote:
What do you do when IT promised you a system upgrade two years ago and never delivered? What if you provided them all the specs for what you needed and made people available (at the expense of your department) for meetings, testing, and feedback and still nothing happened?
Makris wrote:
I am a represtative of a Law Department of a large Retail corporation. I represent them to the support and development team of the technology department. Sometimes developers get it completely wrong, so what do you do? If I were to yell at them, talk to their managers, act all pissy and use the passive aggressive approach, NOTHING will get accomplished. They'll just lift their shoulders and say "what is he all angry about?"
When I bring documentation (constructive) of opportunities of improvement (criticism) it promotes a work environment that people want to work. Yelling and kicking will just make people (greenmarine) leave.
Personally, I'd find a different vendor. But, this is a game. There's no mission critical updates or releases. My point wasn't a comparison of timelines, more of what I have foundto be thebest way of getting results.
Makris wrote:
Good point. But there aren't just two types of clients. You can be constructive without kissing hind end and you can be helpful without giving an inch.
I am a represtative of a Law Department of a large Retail corporation. I represent them to the support and development team of the technology department. Sometimes developers get it completely wrong, so what do you do? If I were to yell at them, talk to their managers, act all pissy and use the passive aggressive approach, NOTHING will get accomplished. They'll just lift their shoulders and say "what is he all angry about?"
When I bring documentation (constructive) of opportunities of improvement (criticism) it promotes a work environment that people want to work. Yelling and kicking will just make people (greenmarine) leave.
You're saying all of this like we haven't been constructive or nice for the last two years. The point is, we've been there, we've done that. We've posted enough to write the book on it. So far it hasn't helped us Smuggle one iota.
And to insinuate that anything we did could make GreenMarine leave is just idiotic. And by idiotic I mean extremely stupid.Wewere his biggest fans, and he knows it. Most of us nearly idolized the man for his vision of what we should be. I bet anything his leaving had more to do with management telling him to do things their way, and at their timetable, rather than doing things that he thought was right.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling everyone to yell and scream. I'm not even telling them they should leave. I just think you guys are being naive if you think being calm and nice and polite is going to accomplish a thing. SOE/LA will give us Smuggling when they're damn good and ready. Nothing we do will change that.
SmugglerPie wrote:
Makris wrote:
Good point. But there aren't just two types of clients. You can be constructive without kissing hind end and you can be helpful without giving an inch.
I am a represtative of a Law Department of a large Retail corporation. I represent them to the support and development team of the technology department. Sometimes developers get it completely wrong, so what do you do? If I were to yell at them, talk to their managers, act all pissy and use the passive aggressive approach, NOTHING will get accomplished. They'll just lift their shoulders and say "what is he all angry about?"
When I bring documentation (constructive) of opportunities of improvement (criticism) it promotes a work environment that people want to work. Yelling and kicking will just make people (greenmarine) leave.
You're saying all of this like we haven't been constructive or nice for the last two years. The point is, we've been there, we've done that. We've posted enough to write the book on it. So far it hasn't helped us Smuggle one iota.
And to insinuate that anything we did could make GreenMarine leave is just idiotic. And by idiotic I mean extremely stupid.Wewere his biggest fans, and he knows it. Most of us nearly idolized the man for his vision of what we should be. I bet anything his leaving had more to do with management telling him to do things their way, and at their timetable, rather than doing things that he thought was right.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling everyone to yell and scream. I'm not even telling them they should leave. I just think you guys are being naive if you think being calm and nice and polite is going to accomplish a thing. SOE/LA will give us Smuggling when they're damn good and ready. Nothing we do will change that.
Good idea.
Makris wrote:
Personally, I'd find a different vendor. But, this is a game. There's no mission critical updates or releases. My point wasn't a comparison of timelines, more of what I have foundto be thebest way of getting results.
SmugglerPie wrote:
Here is the bottom line.
You own a company. Which of the following two groups is going to make you want to work harder and make things better?
- Your customers tell you what a good job you're doing, and are always nice and polite when you talk to them.
- Your customers are yelling about what a crappy job you're doing, what a crappy service you're providing, and they are leaving in waves which is resulting in a decline in profits.
Now, I'm no expert, but if I owned that company, and #2 was happening, I'd make sure to kick things into high gear and try to please my customers. That's where my paycheck comes from, after all.
Your leaving out a few factors.
- What is the level of quality of the company.
- What is your communication level among you and your customers.
- What are the expectations of the customers in relation to your company.
See the thing is, if you meet\exceed most people\customers standards and expectations on these three items there would be very little of number two in your list. Of course there are always those few customers that are just never going to be happy, however for the most part they are far and few between. The whole point is a company should never let it's customer base get to such a level of dissatisfaction as to warrant a large portion of themcomplaining and terminating their service with said company.
SOE has had a 2+ year history of miscommunication, deceit, ignorance, denial, of it's customer base to a point that it has come to this and that is the sad part. How they have remained viable as a money making company has me baffled. Now the devs, being in the positions they are in, are the representatives of this company and, although they don't neccessarily make all the descisions, have to take the brunt of the backlash. Unfortunate as that my seem, that is how it goes. It is no different in my career position, if an irrate customer is unhappy with something my company has done, then I am the one who takes the beating regardless of the fact that it wasn't my descision. And I am the one who must listen and communicate to the customer and work to resolve the issue until they are satisfied with the outcome. I am not here stating that SOE needs to be infallible, I am here stating that when they do make a mistake, then communicate with the customer and work with them to a positive end result. This is their failing, not ours, we have been communicating to them for 2 years as to our dissatisfaction and for the most part they only listen with a half hearted attitude. For 2 years we have been taking it in stride and have been helpful, and constructive. A customer will only deal with this type of company for so longbefore they turn to anger and then eventually termination of services.
So let me pose a question to everyone that reads this thread. What is an acceptable time limit to follow a specific course of action before trying another? How long do we continue to be nice and fuzzy to SOE, what amount of time is acceptable? 2 years? 2 1/2 Years? 3, 4 years? How long?
Makris wrote:
I've played the game alot longer than I've registered on the forums. And, by the way, newcomers pay just as much money as you do. They are entitled to just as much as you or I
In your own words - PROVE IT. You're the one who won't accept anything without proof, and the only proof we have of how long you've been here is your registration date. And I regret to inform you that newcomers haven't paid as much money as I have - I've been paying for a lot longer, which equals more money in SOEs coffers. The problem isn't that they are entitled to "just as much", it's that SOE is clearly catering to new blood at the expense of their long-term, loyal customers. Being sold out like that is a surefire way to breed resentment.
Oh that's rich. Do you know how many MONTHS that problem went on before it was fixed? (and how did it get fixed? By players flaming?)
Given that it didn't get fixed for quite some time, I can guarantee you it wasn't from "asking nicely". I'm sorry, but when the polite approach is ignored, repeated attempts aren't going to get you more ground.
My only goal here is to help make these forums a place where all players feel welcome to share their thoughts or ideas. Does that not sound like a good thing?
Shaan'ti Hokai (Kauri) 
Hey, your the one who's seen fit to judge how the rest of us deal with the lies, the broken promises and the obfuscation.
Let me know when your "kill em with kindness" approach actually bears verifiable fruit... or barring that, when you become disenchanted and disillusioned yourself, perhaps you'll have the good grace to acknowledge that maybe we were onto something after all.
TashunkaSapa wrote:
Hey, your the one who's seen fit to judge how the rest of us deal with the lies, the broken promises and the obfuscation.
Let me know when your "kill em with kindness" approach actually bears verifiable fruit... or barring that, when you become disenchanted and disillusioned yourself, perhaps you'll have the good grace to acknowledge that maybe we were onto something after all.
Where did I judge? The original poster came with a thought, you disagreed, I agreed. Don't get all upset. It's a conversation about approaches.
SmugglinZane wrote:
Ding Ding... end of the round, now go back to your corners and cool off.
I see three of him.... HIT THE ONE IN THE MIDDLE!