Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
Nerj wrote:
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
if missions are not required to progress in smuggler then part of the worry is relieved. But the problem would still remain that in order to actually smuggle they would have to expose themselves to the risk of PVP which is still not fair at all.
It is NOT PvP in the traditional sense:
...
That is true, but it is still PVP and still leaves that griefing aspect open.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse!
Ternque01 wrote:
DrakoonShao wrote:
Well before I start out my post let me give some background. My character's only combat skills are those I've gained through the Smuggler tree (and the prereqs) and one-handed 1-3. All my other points are devoted to crafting since I'm also a DE. I'm pretty much a casual player and don't have the credits to devote to top of the line equipment. Needless to say I would probably have no chance of surviving against an actual player bounty hunter.This is also one of the same reasons I don't like to PvP. I have gotten accidentally sucked in a couple times though. I'm a Rebel purely so I can shoot stormtroopers when they try to scan me if I should choose to do so. In doing this I've gotten ganked a couple times by PC Imps, I didn't last long. It's something I accept as a risk for actually playing myself as a Smuggler.
Despite my combat shortcomings, I can pretty much take down any NPC I run into as long as I play it smart and use all my skills at my disposal (Did I mention I'm hardly ever buffed and practically never wear armor ?). From this outlook I can honestlysay that I believethe reward for escaping/defeating a player BH should be greater. NO game has ever had an AI that rivals a real human player. They usually have to cheat and do stuff like make them never miss or have instantaneous reaction times. If they tried to make NPC BH the equal to PC ones, I honestly believe that they would end up being something like the Super Battle Droids in the dungeons or people would always figure a sure fire way to beat them. Therefore I think that that there is no contest that the reward for those who fend off the pc BH should easily be greater than those who do the same to NPC one. This is from someone that hates PvP.
Just another thought from someone who hates PvP. I would have no problem if it did end up being only pc bh that came after smugglers with marks on them. Simply make it so that handling contraband is considered consenting to PvP. I know some might not like this, even I would have to rethink my desire to be a smuggler and I've been one forever. Sliced weapons, spice, and other contrabandare NOT required. You can get by just fine in a PvE world without it. Sure you won't be soloing Krayts (and other "uber" creatures) but you're not supposed to do that anyway. I never wear armor unless I'm going into a dungeonand have run around with unsliced weapons before. I still survived and everyone else could too. Just put the warning on contraband (and since the Smuggler profession deals in contraband it would be a given for the profession) "Possession of and dealing in Contraband opens you up for the possiblity of attack by law enforcement or Bounty Hunters". That would make the PvP consentual, plain and simple. Currently, contraband is a luxury item with no real risks. If you change that and make contraband what it's really supposed to be, people will complain a bit do to the change, but will get used to it. There has to be a risk, that's what smuggler is all about.
Finally, for people like RellikCro and others thatact likeyou are speaking for all PvE'rs, please remember that you DO NOT actually speak for all PvE players. You are offering YOUR point of view as PvE player, don't claim or act likeit's everyone's from a set playstyle. Hopefully my post will show that not all PvE players think in the way that some are acting like we do.
Oh yeah, one final final thingIt seems to me that the PvE system that most are calling for would take a lot of time to code as most of it seems like stuff that isn't currently in the game. In comparison, the system with PC BH could probably be easily be adapted from the Jedi visability system. End result? Smuggler Revamp sooner, with more various features vs them spending all their time coding a whole new system for dropping a npc bh on a smuggler no matter where they are and also making sure he's balanced to whatever level the smuggler is as well. I have no idea about coding but that is something that occured to me that seems logical.
Okay okay, quite frankly I've had enough. If it is too hard to code a NPC BH, I'd rather all bounties be taken by players. I've thought about this, and while i've recently been a huge supporter of a PvE/PvP "switch", if it is not possible I say to hell with the complaints.
Caylin and some others bring up the point that one can't level up a smuggler without having to PvP. I'm sorry guys, but I don't little sympathy for someone who chooses the life of crime. If you choose the smuggler profession - the profession of a criminal, reaping rewards from breaking the law, then you must suffer the risks. PC bounty hunters are a risk. If anyone should be hunting people it is them.
How long have we cried for real risk/reward? How many times have we thought up plans to get it? Well damnit we got some real rewards now, and we've got some real risks. I suggest you all take responsibility for your actions. The time has come for one helluva change in this game. If the change gets to hot for some of you smugglers, then just play your missions cool and do what you're told - simple as that. I for one am dying to be hunted. I am dying for some real risks for some real rewards.
Hell make two sets of smuggler missions... one is less risky but also offers less reward, the other... more risky and more rewarding. That way those who don't want to take the risks that will get them a BH don't have to. Those who want some danger and excitement (everything a Jedi doesn't crave mind you) can take the harder ones. If a PvE oriented smuggler wants to take on a more risky mission every now and again for fun, that's fine i'm sure that by taking the less risky missions all the time they certainly have some leeway to take some risk.
I can only appologize if this comes off my sleeve as rude, but it's how I feel. If you don't want PvP, then don't consent with yourself to use contraband. You're the ones who make your own choices. I'll be damned if I get jipped out of something that could be absolutely incredible becauseour player base cannot livewith the freedom to make their own choices. That is the point when a game ceases to be a challenge, and begins to be el Lamerito Supreme with extra hot Taco Bell sauce. Using contraband = consenting to PvP. There's the equation.
Exactly my words, I will be damned if I get jipped out of something that could be absolutley incredible because of disrespectful PvP'ers and their "I am better then thou" attitude. You took the words right out of my mouth. You are not better then I am, your playstyle certainly is NOT better then mine. What gives you the right to tell me how to play the game? What gives you the right to tell me I can not do something in the game simply because my playstyle does not meet your expecations?
I am all about choice, you however are trying to smuther my choice.
My solution is this toward smugglers wanting no PvP: institute two different missions on our terminals, risky and er.. not so risky. Risky Missions give better payouts and L00t, but for an equal risk of raising visibility. Low Risk MIssions give lower forms of payout, as well as equally lower risk of raising visibility. BOTH missions will give EQUAL amounts of smuggling XP. This is a fair system.NPC BH's are an insult to the BH community, and are much less of a threat than PC BH's. It is like comparing apples to oranges, there is no separate but equal here. Because they are not equal, a PvE smuggler should not be privalidged to the same rewards. If a PvE/PvP switch were in place it would be in effect equal reward for unequal risk.
Guys/gals, the rules have changed, either we adapt, or we get the lamest revamp I've could even think of. You know it. I know it. Hell even the Pope knows it.
Message Edited by Ternque01 on 06-18-2004 09:55 AM
Ipseck wrote:
I'm sorta confused. How is it that PvE and PvP are different "playstyles" ? They're both parts of the game... How is PvP different from PvE. The people describing it make it seem like there's 2 seperate games here coexisting. I don't understand teh distinction. On the one hand... you're killing toons, on the other, your killing toons.. I don't get it. Its the same thing.
Going back to an anology.. PvP and PvE are like apples and oranges. Both are fruits, both grow on trees.. but both have very noticable differences. Just like apple and oranges there will be ppl that like one or the other and some that like both.
To alot of PvE'ers, in my experience only, are not wanting to PvP mostly due to the griefing, smack talk, disrespect, and l337 talk that comes with it. Not only that but a bad PvP completely ruins imersion in the game and often times hardcore PvP'ers will use system machinics that are not intended to be use in a certain way to their advantage making it even more of a game buster.
NPC's never break imersion, they never smack talk, they never disrespect you as a person, they do not grief, and I have yet to see a single one l337 talk.
Yes from the ground up, from the way you think to the way you play and most of the time the very personalities behind the characters differ between PvP and PvE. They are two different playstyles, two different creatures and while some like to mix the two others despise the the opposite playstyle. But a good player, no matter what playstyle they choose will always respect the others choice.
Akkori wrote:
Bah....let the PvE get NPC Bh...but make them take the form of SUper Battle Droids. I say, make the risk to PvE more than PvP. At least in PvP you can pay off the BH. It would't be too hard to have a SBD drop on you someplace and wipe the floor with you. The PvE'ers would get thier way and die every single time they get a Bounty on them.
To be clear, I do NOT like PvP and have never actively pariticpated. But I am looking forward to the Challenge and Tense Thrill of evading a real BH.
Do not hate those that think different then you, be constructive and come up with ways to help the situation. Slamming ppl for how they like to play or think will get all of us no where very fast.
We want equal risk/reward, we do not ask for hand outs but only for respect.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
Regardless, part of being a smuggler is being careful and watching your back. This is an excelent way to bring this concept to life in the game.
There is a huge difference at sucking at smuggling and checking the "I will skim 25% of this product from my supplier" box.
...
Ternque, it isn't about being just a smuggler and watching your back. That can be accomplished in just PvE terms.
We are talking about a PVP consequence being FORCED on those who are trying to skill up smuggler. By either failing or having their contraband detected they face an increased visibility level.
They should not be pushed into this, when their entire play style is not to be involved with PVP. You DO NOT force it on them. You DO NOT make them have to actively check a terminal to prevent themselves for being hunted, when they did not want to be there in the first place. They have NO CHOICE but to accept the risk of PVP in this current set up given what GM and TH have said. That is unnacceptable.
It isn't a pissant matter of skimming items. If they fail a mission, visibility is increased. If they are caught, visibility is going to be increased. It leaves them with no option whatsoever to avoid pvp.
They should not have to spend their time checking terminals to prevent their names coming up, when they don't even want to participate in it in the first place. It is WASTING THEIR PLAY TIME doing something they DON'T WANT TO DO!
I'm sorry for yelling on words, but there is no doubt PVP is forced on the player and it is by no means acceptable that they should be punished for not participating in PVP by having to keep checking those bounty hunter terminals.
Ternque01 wrote:
RellikCro wrote:
I have absolutely NP RPing iwth other PvE'ers, I have yet to see a good RP PvP'er. So just in case you missed it, it is the very core of PvP itself we do not want, we want none of it, nothing, notta, zero.... we ask that you respect our playstyle like we respect yours.. it is that simple.
I am an avid PvP'er and a helluva fan of roleplaying myself. Watch who you ask to respect your playstyle when you clearly disrespect mine here. I understand that you don't like PvP, but I will not tolerate a misconception of a playstyle when it is directed at myself. Thank you.
This was not directed at you, I said "I have yet" which implies me personally... and I have not yet to this day met one. Perhaps someday we could meet ingame so I can get a chance to play with a good RP PvP'er
RellikCro wrote:
You are right, the devs will never make everyone happy... their job is to compromise and impliment systems that will be beneficial to the largest player base.
Unless compromise is properly thought out it can lead to inbalances just as bad as the ones they set up to correct. A glaring example is that NPC and PC Bh's are not separate but equal risks. I was a strong proponent of the PvE/PvP "switch" but the fact is that a player who gets equal rewards in that system does not get equal risks.
It might not be setup that way now but I can be setup that way. Also you have to take into mind the players behind the playstyles... PvE'ers on the normal rely alot more on game mechanics to do their acutual fighting where PvP'ers tend to rely mostly on their instinct and best equipment money can buy plus hours and hours of getting your character exactly right for PvP. So the risk for a PvE'er going against a PvP is extremely more "risky" (although you loose nothing when killed in PvP but you do loose condition when you die in PvE... which has the higher risk?) then a PvP'er going against a PvP'er... in fact I would think you would want to fight like minded and like prepared players and not some average PvE'er (generalized pve'er as some are also very into pvp).
The law is designed to be respected. A normal (non-smuggler) who wishes to maintain their PvE playstyle can easily do so by simply not using contraband. For a PvE oriented smuggler, things can be very difficult on them. I think a better solution is this: make two types of smuggler missions. One is low reward but low risk (of raising visibility). The other is high reward for high risk (of raising visibility). These low visibility missions should allow a PvE smuggler to easily allow themsleves to not enter the BH terminals.
I offer you a few very valid reasons why it is a bad idea to implement NPC BH. The first is if they are implemented the law won't truly be respected if the punishment are able to be chosen to be weaker by the offender. If either NPC or PC BH's tend to be the weaker punishment, the player will choose accordingly. Also, because of this, a player in this situation can reap equal rewards for unequal risks.
The second point on why NPC BH's make our revamp lame: it will take a significant amount of time to code NPC BH's. You must adjust their AI for burst running, server-line crossings, and other player tactics. Then they have to be balanced so that they are not too hard, and not too easy. Considering that many smugglers are at hugely different comat levels, this forces the developers to either implement a complicated system to balance a NPC BH to a specific player or just make them uber to save time.
The third point is that putting in NPC BH's is a very large insult to our BH community. It is hard to be sympathetic to them, but they pay just as much to play this game as every single on of us does. The only marks they get to take are stagnant, unintelligent NPC's. If you think that is fun, then post some ideas why, because 95% of the player population KNOWS that what they have is lame. They are BH's, it is their job to hunt down criminals, and it would be a large, large pity to see their ability to actually hunt players who choose to play as criminals down.
So you are willing to insult PvE smugglers to please another class (BH in this case) instead of finding a solution to respect both professions? Seems like the easy way out to me and one that does not efficiently take into consideration of all players.
RellikCro wrote:
Exactly my words, I will be damned if I get jipped out of something that could be absolutley incredible because of disrespectful PvP'ers and their "I am better then thou" attitude. You took the words right out of my mouth. You are not better then I am, your playstyle certainly is NOT better then mine. What gives you the right to tell me how to play the game? What gives you the right to tell me I can not do something in the game simply because my playstyle does not meet your expecations?
I am all about choice, you however are trying to smuther my choice.
I'm not going to smother your choice, but I am going to smother your argument. Let me present you with the choices that youposses to not engage in PvP.
1. Complete your smuggling missions when possible. These are PvE missions, and we all know that soloable PvE missions in this game are a joke.
2. In the ethical decisions raised in the smuggling missions play your cards straight - do not steal from your employer.
3. Monitor you visibility via another smuggler (hell maybe smugglers can check their own).
4. Pay another smuggler if your visibility gets to high to drop it.
5. Lay low until your visibility drops if you don't feel like paying a smuggler
At this point you're probably gonna say something like "well I shouldn't be forced to check my visibility", and at that point I would say, "well yes you do, as a RP fan, you should be well aware that criminals and smugglers have to watch thier six and check if the authorities are after him following a big ordeal". You like to RP don't you?
You now know that being careful is what a smuggler is alll about, and you know that you can choose to do this easily. Should you goof up, you have several several options to take to make up for that mistake. You do have a choice. The only thing that you don't have a choice in is getting free stuff without the work. If you choose to follow a profession of breaking the law and getting away with it, then you should be prepared and accepting of any and all work that it takes to accomplish that.
Going to a smuggler for 5 seconds and paying the brother 5k isn't slave work you know. Hell, that could be another smuggler paying YOU to do it for him.
You have been given a new gift! You can smuggle! Now you are given the gift of putting the work into doing the job.
You're not forced. It's your job or you die, because that's how you RP a smuggler. You still have the choice to not do those things, but we know what breaking the law and being sloppy causes... yep.. some big guy named Tony next to you in a cell smiling at you, just waiting for you to go to sleep.
I am not listening to the FORCED argument anymore, and I'm not going to hear a WORK argument. The law has penalties, and your job is to sneak around them. That's why it's called a profession - not a handout. You can gut this system if you feel like checking your visibilty every so often is a problem. You can gut it if actually having a fear that drives you to follow your boss' orders. You can gut it all you want. Implementing NPC BH's will likely be so much of a pain to code that it won't be possible. What will you do then? Tell the devs to shove this revamp up their bum and give us an entirely watered down, ineffectual, stationary, stagnant, and predictable revamp? What would you propose in it's place?
You aren't FORCED into PvP, do your job correctly and make sure your visibility doesn't have 999,999 points.
I'll respect your playstyle when you start respecting the law that should be RP'ed to in this game, but isn't
As this the first time that really I’m motivated to voice my opinion. I’m going to do this in several post that I believe the Green Marine should have done, all of his thoughts are a good start but too much at one time. Sort of the old adage “One must learn to crawl, before one can walk, and one must learn to walk before one can run”
"The game’s contraband system will be changed to include a greater number of illegal items, a range of legality levels, and increased penalties for being found with illegal items."
This part sounds good, but it should also say something about involving more factional groups. For example on Corellia the local law enforcement looks to be the CorSecs. They too would be doing scans. Maybe not to the same degree orview as the Empire, They may not view owning sliced armor as a crime.
"Items will now have a range of legality. The following legal ranges will be implemented.
Quasi-legal
So you are saying for example if I just jaywalked the cops are going to shoot me even though I might not be a smuggler. This is REALY BAD...
Once again this is a good example of the Devs making HIGH risk for low reward. This is where Faction system should be used.
If we look at it from what the Empire might view it as this would be a bad thing, (this person might be the enemy and thus be harder to kill), this would mean a stiff fine. If the person has been skipping out on paying his fines may have a warrant out on him, but the Empire wouldn’t be courting full civil unrest by attacking such a person.
But on Corellia the CorSecs might take a more conservative view (So this person has better armor, I agree with him that I wouldn’t want to go up against a Crimson Razor Cat with some of the stuff that the Empire deems Legal) and let the person go
And if the person has high enough faction standing the NPC even wouldn’t bother them
"Banned A player caught with banned goods will be attacked. The player’s visibility will increase slightly for each violation."
Attacked? With out provocation, once again too harsh.
I would take this to mean some of the low damage sliced weapons and non-crated spice.
And this would be a good place to start using your “visibility” but not in the sense of that bounty hunter (face it Bounty hunters right now are Assassins, if you disagree with me please show me one bounty hunter that brings their mark in alive. Other wise the Devs want the bounty hunter to go out and kill the player’s character) This would be I think a bit too harsh of an approach by any law enforcement, and would soon cause Civil unrest. In the above example the player’s character could end up with a high Visibility penalty.
Visibility should be used like faction points. If you go against the law enforcement you get noticed easier, things that might cut this down is a high enough Good Faction standing with said law enforcement.
For instance lets say a user of spices has paid their fines and been out helping law enforcement “take a bite out of crime”, they may take a bit more notice of him if the ran in to him, but wouldn’t go out of their patrol area to get him. The patrol area might be consider a range around the NPC of say 30m for a CorSec or maybe 40m for Imperial trooper on a non-crackdown day (And I don’t mean the type of crack down the Devs have going on now with the Empire is a bit off the mark some how, maybe it is the visibility idea that had been brought up here) However if a person has by some means built up a high enough visibility the NPC’s might just come running after them from 115m away with out the aid of a scanner. Now I don’t have an idea as how to work this but it is a good area for discussion
Now if you notice that none if these instances do I use a smuggler, that is because if you go by what the Dev’s idea is every one of us is a full bonfide smuggler with all the penalties and none of the skills
Now that I have breached the subject of skills and the next bullet does actually start to cover the realm of the smuggler, First off Spices belong in either Pharmacology or Organic Chemistry in the Medic field. If the Smuggler wants to have a hybrid in that, it’s up to the player
What should replace this column of skills is Evade or Sercomvent detection. This falls more into the smuggler field than illegal drugs does.
Underworld negotiator is basically the ability to judge whom you can pull the wool over or bribe (I have only mentioned this skill now because I have breached the subject of skills and this will need to change to match what is said later and so some thought should be give in minor here) In this sense the would be smuggler could be honing his Underworld negotiator skills in bribing his way out of official trouble thus not raising his visibility level
"Highly IllegalA player caught with highly illegal goods will be attacked, the goods confiscated (if the attacked player is defeated), and the player’s visibility will increase. Highly illegal objects cannot be transported via the standard travel system by anyone other than a smuggler. The player must use the new smuggler travel system in order to move highly illegal goods. (This new system will be discussed later.)"
Once again “Attacked” not harsh, but still over kill. A player that is not a smuggler should be challenged and told to surrender the Illegal items. At this point if the player resists then the fight is on.
Now to try to define Highly Illegal, The best I can do is High Damage Sliced Weapons or crates of spices, Crates of High damage Weapons, or components for slicing. There may be others that the Dev’s just to add verity and to fit the story line for the smuggler part
For the non-smuggler player that gets caught with say a crate of spices (I chose this because I would think that any law enforcement, whether it was Imperial or Rebel or any where in between would view this as a dealer or smuggler. No question about them using this weapon for hunting Rankors) They get challenged and the don’t resist. The Illegal goods would get confiscated, very hefty fine, and a Very High Visibility this could be bought back by farming favorable faction points. (A bit hard for Imperials since they only seem to have the Rebels and vise versa) example for CorSec you would Meatlumps.
Now finally we get to what the Smuggler is really good for (YAY!) at the point of challenge the smuggler should have these options 1. Try to Bribe, 2. Surrender the goods and try to bribe to a voided the visibility penalty, 3 Surrender the goods pay the fine and except the visibility penalty. Of course there is always the option of fight or run.
As for the smugglers system that might be ok for planet to planet till JTL is in place or for those that don't have it. But if any one is caught moving large quanties of Illegal goods they should be punished as a smuggler.And have to work off the high visibility anddeal with all the searches each time they come into a city.
This should be discussed now because it can, and does now affect everyone! Not just Smuggler.
And when they come and complain I will tell them that it is thier choice to use Sliced weapons, There are not any PvE encounters in the game that I am aware of that require you to have the small edge that sliced weapons give...
RellikCro wrote:
This is just the start, when this gets spread to the general populace of players that all their precious weapons are now going to put them in jeopardy of being put on a PC Bounty Term you will see even a more increase of PvE'ers speak out about it. The time is better now to come up with a valid solution to meet all players then after the devs start to work and code and then find out that such a large portion of players do not like it they rip it completely out like the artisian "update" a few months ago.
Nerj wrote:
I am all for a PVP Only Perk. Like a modifier to a To-hit against a PLAYER.
The problem is when PVE'ers are griefed and out damaged by PVPers because they have higher end equipment available to them by being open to PC bounties. If you give perks to those willing to PVP, and restrict those from PVE'ers, whats the point of being a PVE'er?
Avoidence of PvPers
Riscrition of players able to play the game in their own playstyle. Seems like PvE'ers are trying to find good solutions to this problem but "most" PvP'ers want it their way or no way.
We need better gear for our play style just as much as you need better gear for yours.
Illegal goods will increase the possibility of PvP though and you don't want that to happen do you?
Illegal goods should increase the possiblity of consequences not necesarily PvP. Do you not want to respect your fellow players?
Since NO ONE is playing their role properly, you can hardly say one side deserves to have features from the film that the other side doesn't. PVE'ers go out in Solo Groups, Get Buffs, Spice, and Sliced Items... PVPers stack foods, and dabble in professions, wear items and use items that their faction wouldn't have access to. Sure this is a very Star Wars Idea to be attacked if you Smuggle, but the players aren't following Star Wars as it is... so you give them more opportunity for Griefing and general Harassment.
Again we are talking about Bounty Hunter PvP, restricted skill point use very little dabbling available. In addtion, all players can gain visibility more likely someone who is an uber power gamer will be on the terminals before the weaker ones will. May have Bounty Hunters going ater each other too
No, you are talking about BH PvP, we are talking about PvE and trying to find a solution tthat would be good for all players.
The IDEA is perfect,its the REALITY that is flawed.
Merchant with a bit of pistol is NOT going to be able to compete in combat with a Master BH. It's a no-win situation.
Merchant will have the money to pay us to remove them from the terminals. Therefore avoiding PvP. BTW, what would a Droid Engineer/Merchant be doing on the terms anyway? With Vehicles they don’t need Armor or Weapons to service their harvesters. Plus their small amount of Visibility will fade. In addition, Player Bounty Hunters may wind up with more TKM/Fencer/Doc templates to worry about. Uber competition for an MBH, how will they know until they find their mark?
This is NOT general PvP, it should be calledPvPlayerBountyHunter
No, this should be called taken advantage of professions unable to protect themselves fairly in a fight and those that have taken professions generally known to be associated with strict PvE in mind..... or griefing if you will.
Message Edited by Nerj on 06-18-2004 01:56 PM
RellikCro wrote:
This is just the start, when this gets spread to the general populace of players that all their precious weapons are now going to put them in jeopardy of being put on a PC Bounty Term you will see even a more increase of PvE'ers speak out about it. The time is better now to come up with a valid solution to meet all players then after the devs start to work and code and then find out that such a large portion of players do not like it they rip it completely out like the artisian "update" a few months ago.
1.The first idea is the PvE/PvP "switch" which allow all players to ability to choose between a PC or NPC BH to kill them. One drawback to this solution is that the coding and balancing of NPC BH AI will have to be developed and balanced. Implementing two separate system will cut into other areas of the smuggler revamp such slicing, spices, and dirty fighting.
2.The second is the Low Risk Smuggler Mission, which allows PvE oriented smugglers to opportunity to gain equal smuggler XP while at the same time offering missions that result in less visibility gain if it is failed. A great way to implement this is to have all smuggler missions start the same. If the smuggler decides to "skim" from his suppliers then the mission posses a very large increase in visibility gain risk. If a smuggler decides to not "skim" the mission delivery, then a mission failure results in very little visibility gain because you can always explain to your boss that still have the reciept from the cloning tube you just popped out of. BTW because of the ease of avoiding visibility in this system, all BH's will be PC. There should be no excuse for "accidentally" getting a million visibility points.
3.The third idea is a Fine Option when visibility puts one on the terminals. PvE oriented people can choose to pay the fine. For people whowould rather duke it out, they can accept a PC bounty on their heads. If a player chooses to not compensate the state for their actions, a BH will be.
4.Implement a Visibility Decay System that allow for a slow decay of visibility, allowing a smuggler (or non-smuggler) to "lay low".
5.Allow smugglers to Slice BH Terminals to Remove Bounties or Lower Visibility. Chance of failure land the slicing smuggler on the terminals with no change in visibility for the client.
How many more ideas do you want from me? Do I have to bleed before you stop meleeing the "PvP people"?
I want one thing, and that's a challanging contraband system, and if the devs have to waste time making one to complicated, we aren't going to get one! I for one seriously ask if you hear me on this point. Do you even want risks and rewards? Please, please, please for the love of all the blasters in the galaxy ask yourself what is feasible for our revamp. You don't even have to tell me. Keep it to yourself. Put it in a jar. Put it in a shrine.
To alot of people you PvE guys seem like you don't even like the system. Make sure you're giving off the impression that you like the system, but just want a very small amendment done to it, because right now you're asking me to kiss your playstyle's butt right now.
Just be a little flexible on actually doing what it takes to RP a smuggler playstyle to preserve your own (PvE) playstyle. GreenMarine has given us the tools, and he has laid out some choices you can make. These choices are right in line with what a smuggler should do to "not get killed by a BH". They are simple, clear, fun, and most likely easy as pie to do. We all like pie don't we???