Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
I have one major problem with this design -- non-smuggler palyers. How do you expect other players to accept such drastic changes to the economy? Do you remember the uproar that was caused by a rumor that "Lokian Wheat" was a contraband that was confiscated by Imperial Stormroopers on Test Center when Imperial Crackdown was being tested? Do you remember how the originial harsh penalty to Imperial factioned palyers was scaled down to a slap on the wrist for most and a free ticket to those with Imperial officer rank? What this design document proposes is something even more drastic. How can you be sure that non-smuggler palyer base will accept these changes? Especially if the sliced equipment, that everybody has and has "learned" to rely on, will become illegal? How can you assure us that IF such contraband system is possible (even though we're repeatedly told that any type of contraband scan bottelnecks cannot be supported by current technology), that DEV team will go through with it, EVEN if wider player base will be against such plan?
(P.S.: As a preliminary design work - awesome. Even if some of it makes into the game, I'll pick up master smuggler again. If I wont quit by then.)
Ternque01 wrote:
Regardless, part of being a smuggler is being careful and watching your back. This is an excelent way to bring this concept to life in the game.
There is a huge difference at sucking at smuggling and checking the "I will skim 25% of this product from my supplier" box.
...
Ternque, it isn't about being just a smuggler and watching your back. That can be accomplished in just PvE terms.
We are talking about a PVP consequence being FORCED on those who are trying to skill up smuggler. By either failing or having their contraband detected they face an increased visibility level.
They should not be pushed into this, when their entire play style is not to be involved with PVP. You DO NOT force it on them. You DO NOT make them have to actively check a terminal to prevent themselves for being hunted, when they did not want to be there in the first place. They have NO CHOICE but to accept the risk of PVP in this current set up given what GM and TH have said. That is unnacceptable.
It isn't a pissant matter of skimming items. If they fail a mission, visibility is increased. If they are caught, visibility is going to be increased. It leaves them with no option whatsoever to avoid pvp.
They should not have to spend their time checking terminals to prevent their names coming up, when they don't even want to participate in it in the first place. It is WASTING THEIR PLAY TIME doing something they DON'T WANT TO DO!
I'm sorry for yelling on words, but there is no doubt PVP is forced on the player and it is by no means acceptable that they should be punished for not participating in PVP by having to keep checking those bounty hunter terminals.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
SBRD0C wrote:
Daker-Naritus wrote:
Well, yes, but it is actually exchanging BIG problem A for LITTLE problem B.
Big Problem A will only be a big problem fo a short amount of time.
You say that Many people will stop using sliced items, I say Good.. Right now nearly everyone uses them, if they were truly illegal that would not be the case.
I ask you again.. are you a smuggler?
I agree. Gear slicing is supposed to be a special service. We're not supposed to be slicing in front of starports or announcing our services. These types of services are supposed to be heard through word of mouth and then again, they should only travel so much as rumors.
Smug-Druggler wrote:
Excuse me, Mr. Nerj, but I think we have a misunderstanding. I'll comment at the end of the quotes.
Nerj wrote:
Let me say this:
Smug-Druggler wrote:
There needs to be a payment system for Smuggling missions separate from "The Skim".
I have acore concern regarding the basic structure of the Smuggling Mission.
GreenMarine wrote:
At its core, a smuggling mission is similar to a delivery mission. The player is given a crate of illegal goods to move to another contact. The player must then return the payment for the goods to the source of the mission.
Ex: Jabba gives the player a crate of 50 to deliver to a cantina in Mos Eisley. After the player delivers the narcostims, she receives a payment of 12,000 credits. The player then returns to Jabba and delivers 8,000 credits, pocketing 4,000 as payment for the job.
According to this model the Smuggler will become a de facto thief. A "skimmer" of his clients. I'm not sure I like this because:
1.) I'm a Smuggler. I want to get paid for moving contraband not necessarily by stealing from my shipments (in this case the Contraband or the dirty cash that comes back from it's sale).
Nerj says: Uhhhh! you are getting paid 4000 credits. If you want to make a little extra on the side then you do the skim.
2.) This mission model also forces you to take some risk in angering your clients thus raising your Visibility due to skimming. Personally, I don't want to chance that by trying to figure out how much Contraband/Cash skimming will keep me out of trouble (Steal Little, Steal Big). I want more risk in this game, but "The Skim" gamedevice as a sole means of payment is crude.
I would like to see us getting paid for the service of Smuggling, first. Then, if a Smuggler feels like taking the extra risk he can skim from his shipments.
Nerj says: Uhhhh! you are getting paid 4000 credits. If you want to make a little extra on the side then you do the skim.
This personal choice may leave a Smuggler out of the Spice selling business to a degree, but that's okay for me personally. I'd just make up for it somewhere else.
Regardless, I'd think that by having a reputation as a Smuggler who's known to always deliver the total shipment and always return with the total payment would bring you increasing rewards and trust within the underworld community.
In summary, there needs to be a payment system for Smuggling missions separate from The Skim.
Nerj says: Uhhhh! you are getting paid 4000 credits. If you want to make a little extra on the side then you do the skim.
Nerj says: You are getting paid 4000 credits. If you want to make a little extra on the side then you do the skim.
Sir, nowhere in the original post from GreenMarine does it state orimply that the money that you withhold from a Smuggling Mission is pay forstrictly Smuggling service and thus not being part of your "Skim".
In fact, it's written very clearly that the money that you skim (Withold) is viewed the same as whatevera Smuggler chooses to risk stealing from his client, a la:
___________________________________________________________
GreenMarine wrote:
Withholding Cargo
The player may also choose to withhold part of the money to be paid to the supplier. For example, the player might deliver all 50 narcostims, but only pay Jabba 6,000 credits.
Withholding cargo or pay will result in the smuggler earning a small bit of visibility. Thus, a smuggler who chooses to defy the crime lords who supply her with jobs faces the possibility of execution at the hands of a hired Bounty Hunter.
____________________________________________________________
See? In this model, "The Skim" (Witholding Cargo and/or Cash) is meant to be the sole means of payment for Smuggling.
So no, Nerj. The "getting paid 4,000" that you repeatedly droned in your reply (and in capitals!)is not separate or "extra" from the skim. It IS part of the skim. Ryutek seemed to understand that.
Nerj, you should reread the original post to get it straight. Without comprehension, all of your subsequent ideas compromise your effort. Especially if your aim is to correct others by doing what you think is stating the obvious. Even if I did misunderstand the idea of Withholding Cargo, which I did not, all you had to say was "Hey, Smug-Druggler. I think you're missing something here. This is what the post says..." and it's done.
When you do it that way you earn respect. But, when youmake posts like that one (and then be wrong on top of it) you're showing me and everyone else on the forums what a Troll you can be.
If you've got enough education to quote my favorite statesman/politician of all time in your Post Signature, then you should maybe follow his example of diplomacy in debating issues. Live up to your rank as "Community Elder", man.
And it's not just you. There are too many who engage in thisunecessary oneupsmanship. Just think where this debate would be if all thatextraenergy was applied tothe solutions.We shouldn't be playing "Forum PvP" with each other.
As always,
Respect
Hey, Smug-Druggler. I think you're missing something here
You recieve 12000 credits from the client you pay Jabba 8000 credits. Without skim 12000 - 8000 = 4000 credits you receive for doing the mission NO SKIM!!!!.
client recieves 50 nacrostims (customer happy
)-- Jabba receives 8000 credits ( (Jabba happy ) - you recieve 4000 credits for the smuggling operation. Everybody is happy 
The Skim portion:
you delivier 35 stims (customer unhappy
)for 8000 credits -skim 15 stims for self - get a little visibility for "skim"- pay Jabba 8000
you deliver 50 stims for 12000 credits - pay Jabba 6000 (Jabba unhappy )- get a little visibility for "skim"- keep 6000 (skimed 2000
)
Ok, you ONLY get visibility if you keep product OR don't pay jabba the full amount --"skim"
I am sorry that you feel I have offended you. However, with SO many blantant errors I could not help it. Each point you covered had only the one response possible.
1) YouARE paid for smuggling contraband -- 12000 - 8000 = 4000 you keep from the sale.
2)The Skim" gameIS the extra I talked about -- *see above
3) the payment is what you get to keep from what product is delivered (50 Nacrostims -- 12000 credits) and what credits Jabba wants (8000 credits). Ok?
Message Edited by Nerj on 06-19-2004 09:52 AM
Rueger_Karde wrote:
"I would in fact be Happy to Have one of many of the systems that have been suggested in this thread.. Lots of good Ideas here.. pity we can only use one of them since they're all for the same system heheh"
True, but unlike other canadates, this system does a few things the others dont.
1) keeps the emersiveness, no deciding who is going to kill me.
2) keeps the bounty hunters happy
a) by no cheating them with NPC hunters
b) by not giving their marks advanced warning ("do you want to pay the fine? no? ready or not here I come!")
3) Is very close to GMs origonal idea therefore making it more likly we can pull it off
4) mostly uses existing code (no remaking NPC bounty hunters system)
Looks great to me.
Sory for the double post
Looks good to me! when can we start? *gets his fingers ready for serious coding, then realizes he doesn't work for SOE* 
Hmph they should gimee a job so I can work on our revamp 
*edited for speeling*
Message Edited by SBRD0C on 06-18-2004 05:48 PM