Smuggler Archive
Thread: Out of curiosity... Smuggler Bounties.
Mythor
Tue May 24, 2005 4:20 am
#66
Slicing Bounty Hunter terminals doesn't actually do anything. (Yes, I tried it. 
)
Unless you meant vis is REDUCED by doing so?
)Unless you meant vis is REDUCED by doing so?
TheAincient
Tue May 24, 2005 4:25 am
#67
Mythor wrote:
Slicing Bounty Hunter terminals doesn't actually do anything. (Yes, I tried it.
Unless you meant vis is REDUCED by doing so?
Correct, my fault, you would slice BH terms to remove players from the term but on a fail you get vis.
Turd_Ferguson523
Tue May 24, 2005 4:27 am
#68
Mythor wrote:
So you're saying that all the Smugglers will manage to keep themselves off the terminals at all times, when some of them are explicitly saying that that is exactly what they want to happen at least some of the time?
If the system can result in other players coming to kill Smugglers, then Smugglers will inevitably be hunted. And then there will be whining.
It is inescapable.IT IS OUR DESTINY!
No thats not what I'm saying. Don't read into it and even worse don't put words in my mouth. I'm saying the system of our visibilty will be different that the Jedi system of visibility. Read the smuggler vision document, once you see what we have proposed or what is more likely to happen regarding our 'visibility', then you will have a better understanding of the system. We get visibilty for several different things, knowing exactly what we get it for and what precautions to take or which you don't mind disregarding. Until you understand the way 'our' system works as opposed to yours and why we are even entertaining the idea, reserve judgement. The only whining will be from people that don't understand the way the system work.
Turd_Ferguson523
Tue May 24, 2005 4:30 am
#69
Mythor wrote:
Slicing Bounty Hunter terminals doesn't actually do anything. (Yes, I tried it.
Unless you meant vis is REDUCED by doing so?
Sure it does, it slightly ups the payout on the missions. But once your refresh it one time it goes away, so if you want the benefit of the slice you have to find one on that first page or you have to do it again. The payment increase is minimal, hence the reason hardly anyone does it. But regarding slicing themselves or clients off the terms, its just an idea. They asked for ideas about things we would like to slice a while ago.
Message Edited by Turd_Ferguson523 on 05-24-2005 06:31 AM
Golrok
Tue May 24, 2005 5:01 am
#70
I just read a post recently someone said the devs at some breakfast meeting said no way'cause they didnt want to upset the smuggler community. They got it so backwards. The majority of smugs are bored out of their minds. I sure am. I hate GCW drama(with this toon). Its just not his style but I also hate "/tell care for a friendly duel?" The trando in me wants to DB any human or wookie, so dueling with one just sucks. IRP my toon as asci-fiscumbag, not a soldier. I dont to join know stinking organaztion,.
I want PVP but outside of GCW. There needs to be a grimey underworld where PVP outside of duels exists. Where you can DB someone and not feel bad about it because they came looking for a fight. I care less about w/ereward. The glitterstim spice or whatever. Screw all that. I just want to DB pploutside of theGCW and friendly duels are lame. The reward is the feeling of being on edge and looking over your shoulder all the time. Some of us want this to break up the mundane daily epsiodes of shooting some stupid melee reptile over and over with a bunch of other toons for hours on end, wishing we were being hunted instead of hunting the poor animals of the galaxy with no scout skills...
Some of us want RP conflict without the GCW drama. Who cares about the stupid reward/penalty. I dont want to get on BH terms to have better spice than the PVE player. I just want to feel nervous and on edge when I choose to, and I do that by pushing myself on to BH terms.
Its not that continuityanyway... WT.H- BH chased smugs in star wars, they did not hunt Jedi. So what Obi Wan and Jango Fett fought but that was no hunt by Jango. Boba Fett hunted Han for 1 and a half flicks. Where does this BH hunt Jedi for that long? They dont. Yea Jango shot that one up but he wasnt hunting, juststanding gaurd to Dooku.
The BH did not wipe out the Jedi. They hunted smugs. Screw the reward. Its just theintensityinstead of monotonyand RP of being awanted criminalthat would berewarding enough. Excitement. But no. Lets not upset the smug community sincethey solove to craft spice and monkey slicein a state of perfect tranquility.
Why must you ppl want to holdsmuggler hunting back so much? Just let us be hunted and share the same quality reward with PVE smugs.. Reward means nothing to me I just want to feel on edge, maybe be able to stay awake during play.
Stop making the game suck already by holding it back,.
Saarek
Tue May 24, 2005 5:41 am
#71
Ashet wrote:
I think smuggler bounties would ruin the profession. For two reasons.
The first is that the Jedi/BHs are the most immature players in the game. Now I have heard it said in this forum that there are a lot of factors that creat the level of immaturity that revolve around the way it is setup, but the fact remains that the players themselves are immature and they will not magically grow up when they get a smuggler bounty. The only class that exploits (ie cheat) as much as the BH is Jedi
Bring them into our game, and they will not rise to our level, we will lower to theirs.
Here's a real world example. They get wind that I am a smuggler. They will follow me around, and kite in a mob to foil my mission so that I will go on the boards. They will then grab a bounty and come after me. This is SOP for BHs and Jedi.
The second reason is we are no match for them. We are a combat class, but us in recon armor with our itty weapons do not match a BH with assault armor and a proton carbine. It will not be 1v1, it is not with Jedi. They will bring in friends to heal them and kite in mobs to attack me so that I lose. Again, SOP.
Its a dirty, dirty game that is not about beating the other person in a fair fight but finding an exploit to pwn your opponent.
IF we get this, it will be the end of the smuggler
I am a master Armorsmith as well as master Smuggler, nd let me tell you, the energy protection on a suit of recon armor can be just as high (if not higher) than a suit of assault. And if you know what weapon to use - you won't be using an Energy based weapon against a suit of assault - You'll be using an elemental damage weapon - Electricity/Acid/Fire anything but Energy.
As for another earlier post about Jedi whining because they had to grind all that way to become force sensitive and all just to be hunted by BH... Our situation is on a mission to mission basis - not a constant fear while you are online of being hunted. You pick up a smuggler mission, then expect to be hunted if you don't complete it. Its not like we'll be hunted day and night, at least not unless we piss off the wrong person.
Wes' post about the summation of what he's noticed so far about what the smuggler community as a whole is looking for is right on the money.
Thanks for that Wes.
Mythor
Tue May 24, 2005 5:43 am
#72
Golrok wrote:Why must you ppl want to hold smuggler hunting back so much? Just let us be hunted and share the same quality reward with PVE smugs.. Reward means nothing to me I just want to feel on edge, maybe be able to stay awake during play.
That's pretty much what I've been trying to tell people, just a lot shorter.
For people who think they'd like the feeling of being a wanted criminal in the Star Wars universe, hunted by players left and right, shouldn't actually being able to do that be reward enough?
Some of us prefer a bit more relaxation, some of us a bit more excitement. Get it in there, give us choices, let us have fun.
Turd_Ferguson523
Tue May 24, 2005 7:21 am
#73
Mythor wrote:
Turd_Ferguson523 wrote:
Mythor wrote:
Slicing Bounty Hunter terminals doesn't actually do anything. (Yes, I tried it.
Unless you meant vis is REDUCED by doing so?
Sure it does, it slightly ups the payout on the missions. But once your refresh it one time it goes away, so if you want the benefit of the slice you have to find one on that first page or you have to do it again. The payment increase is minimal, hence the reason hardly anyone does it.
Hmmm. I seem to recall someone telling me to not pass judgement until I have looked at something myself. I can't recall who that was, can you?
Slicing a Bounty Hunter Terminal does not result in the terminal giving missions with higher payouts. I'm very well aware of how slicing a mission terminal is supposed to work, as I've been using it to gain higher payouts while running missions on Dantooine.
Now, perhaps I was unlucky and the system glitched and did not give me the increased payouts I should have been seeing. I will test it again, if you'd like. But I'll thank you not to make the presumption that I don't have a clue how it works.
Turd_Ferguson523 wrote:No thats not what I'm saying. Don't read into it and even worse don't put words in my mouth. I'm saying the system of our visibilty will be different that the Jedi system of visibility. Read the smuggler vision document, once you see what we have proposed or what is more likely to happen regarding our 'visibility', then you will have a better understanding of the system. We get visibilty for several different things, knowing exactly what we get it for and what precautions to take or which you don't mind disregarding. Until you understand the way 'our' system works as opposed to yours and why we are even entertaining the idea, reserve judgement. The only whining will be from people that don't understand the way the system work.
I don't need to read into it or put words into your mouth, you just reiterated the point yourself.
The Smuggler documents set out how Smugglers would gain "visibility" (notoriety/infamy would perhaps be a more suitable term).
This system would be clearly defined and may even provide us with warnings along the way.
These warnings could be the result of things like failed deliveries or deliberately shafting your "employer" and selling the goods to someone else.
Great. Wonderful. All for it.
I will explain this for you again - the system has in place a series of rising levels of bad consequences as a result of your illegal activities or screwing over of your clients by offloading your package to a rival of your bosses. Small cookies to start with, such as reduced mission payout for the next contract, is the idea for your initial punishment. If you do it enough times, or (potentially?) to enough people, you may find yourself subject to NPC Bounty Hunters. Screw up some more, and they might be "powerful" NPC Bounty Hunters.
Am I right so far?
Nevermind, I know I am, because I've read the design doc!
If the repercussions stop at that point, there is no problem. If it "advances" to multiple, powerful, NPC BHs, still no problem.
The problem is that some Smugglers want to add player BHs into that list. Presumably at the end of the road.
That is where the (big) problem comes in.
That the system would be functionally somewhat different to the Jedi system and that it would be much more transparent to the players, does not change the basis of the problem - if you put players into conflict with each other, both sides will whine about any real or imagined imbalances.
Do you get my point yet? It's got nothing to do with how the back end system works. If the back end system can result in players hunting down Smugglers, it is going to result in whining. Period.
I don't believe I'm even having to explain that.
Poor attempts at being funny and or smug doesn't validate your arguements. I quit reading after your first attempt. Want to get a point across, try with out being a clown. Might be part of your problem with getting people to grasp whatever point you were trying to make. Seems I'm not the only one that doesn't buy into your theories or beliefs about how things would work. Not everyone needs to turn things into this kind of garbage.
HOTDOG
Tue May 24, 2005 7:44 am
#74
UGH. I replied a nice letter and the crap got eaten by the forums! 
Great, long post- shorten
Myth-
On the point of "...hunted by players left and right, shouldn't actually being able to do that be reward enough?"
You are wrong. And I'll tell you why:
Yes. The chase would be a reward FOR ME but some Smugglers would be doing the High Risk (PvP) missions for other reasons and therfore should be compensated accordingly.
Example:
I get a player asking me to get them a lot of glitterstim. I only have a little so I say, "Can you wait until tomorrow?" Knowing that I could get enough by running a couple of Low Risk (PvE) missions.
He says, "No, I'll just find another Smuggler that has it."
I reply, "Wait! Meet me back here in 20 minutes and you'll have it" Knowing that I could Juke one High Risk mission and have enough glitterstim to make the sale.
The downside being- I would end up on the Terms.
See. You cannot reward a player with a "relaxed" game style (as you put it) the same as you reward a player who opts tobe hunted by everyone and their grandmother- even if they are doing it for fun -because it causes inconsistances in the long run.
Greater Risk = Greater Reward.
On the other point: YOU ARE RIGHT. There will most definitely be some whinning in a Smuggler Bounty System. Any time you put a player up against another- SOMEONE is going to complain that the odds are stacked against them.
I read a post yesterday from a Jedi complaining that he was killed by 3 BHs and their pets and that this was "gamebreaking".
What he didn't understand is:
YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO WIN EVERY ENCOUNTER. YOU SHOULD RUN AND WHEN YOU CAN'T RUN YOU SHOULD EXPECT TO BE KILLED.
I think for the most part. Smuggler's understand this so, even though you will hear some whinning. It won't be anywhere near the amount the Jedi/BH situation has.
Bottom line is that no one wants to sacrafice this type of content just because a few (who most likely don't understand how the system works) will whine.
In the end I think the Devs need to be able to assess whether the system is fair and weed out the legit complains from "woe is me" bullsh!t.
CapnKate
Tue May 24, 2005 7:49 am
#75
One additional, HOTDOG...
You should also be able to expect to be able to run. I addressed this in another thread (My thoughts on the Jedi/BH/Smuggler "thing")-- that unless you can run away and have it mean something, it's always going to be a fight and whining. the trick is to make it so one of the possible win conditions is "Eluded Capture". IE: a BH has to be able to fail *without* being killed by the mark-- as it stands, a BH just hunts and hunts and hunts til someone's dead. Which is why there's a lot of whining and why Jedi are always out to win with a kill, I think. Running isn't really viable, because you just prolong the inevitable-- that you're going to fight.
You should also be able to expect to be able to run. I addressed this in another thread (My thoughts on the Jedi/BH/Smuggler "thing")-- that unless you can run away and have it mean something, it's always going to be a fight and whining. the trick is to make it so one of the possible win conditions is "Eluded Capture". IE: a BH has to be able to fail *without* being killed by the mark-- as it stands, a BH just hunts and hunts and hunts til someone's dead. Which is why there's a lot of whining and why Jedi are always out to win with a kill, I think. Running isn't really viable, because you just prolong the inevitable-- that you're going to fight.
Saarek
Tue May 24, 2005 7:51 am
#76
Eluding is where its at IMO.
I wanna be the greasiest smuggler out there. The one that BHs talk about over tea and crumpets or whatever they eat. The one that makes them say "Damn, you got Saarek? Good luck with thtat one mate..."
THATS THE PvP EXPERIENCE I DREAM OF.
CapnKate
Tue May 24, 2005 8:12 am
#77
Not to mention, eluding is what we, as a class, are BUILT TO DO.
Crowd control, minimal damage. Our big damage special dumps what defense we get in the trash. We are not meant to be deualists as BHs are. A smuggler doesn't say "Bring it on!". A Smuggler says "Eat my dust and just *try* and keep up".
/concussionshot;
/burstrun;
/shout Get us outta here, Chewie!!!!!!
There's a Smuggler's macro for ya. ;D
Crowd control, minimal damage. Our big damage special dumps what defense we get in the trash. We are not meant to be deualists as BHs are. A smuggler doesn't say "Bring it on!". A Smuggler says "Eat my dust and just *try* and keep up".
/concussionshot;
/burstrun;
/shout Get us outta here, Chewie!!!!!!
There's a Smuggler's macro for ya. ;D
HOTDOG
Tue May 24, 2005 8:35 am
#78
I dig what you are saying- Something along the lines of "if you evade for X amount of ingame minutes then the mission is off."
I agree with that and included something similar in some proposals I put up (over a year ago 
)
)What I was refering to when I said "If you cannot run, expect to die.." was Concussion Shot.
In the case I mentioned- the Jedi complained because he was rooted and then 3 Bhs sent their pets (2 each) in and ganked him while they fired upon him from a safe distance.
He thought it wasgamebreaking because he never had a chance.
I think it was careful planning by the BHs and a wellthought out onslaught that could have been avoided by the Jedi IF: He kept his eye on his radar and beyond that stayed OFF the terminals.
The problem is people (usually Jedi) think they have to win these battles- and they don't. If they escape they win.
My proposal was something like, you gain Infamy for all the bad stuff you do- Infamy is always falling. So if you stop doing bad stuff you will eventually fall off the terminals.
Keep doing bad stuff and your infamy will continue to rise- along with the price on your head.
It made sense to me because you could turn up the heat as high as you wanted once you got tired of that- you could lay low and your infamy would die away.
/sigh...but I guess no one liked that idea...