Smuggler Archive
Thread: Check the Dev Tracker... BF going bye-bye
ChiiTWINS wrote:
Monthigos wrote:
Okay first of all Entertainer profession have been, are, and always will be socializing professions. Seriously, why would ANYONE pick a profession that requires you to sit in one spot to 'do what you do' if not to socialize? Certainly you're not in it for the money? There are for more lucrative ways to make a living in SWG. As long as there are people interested in that kind of socialization the profession will never 'die', as you put it.
Why should ANY profession be any less lucrative, monetarily, than any other? Why should Bubba down the street with the big gun make more money than Susie in the cantina?
When's the last time you saw a deer hunter makin' the big bugs IRL? Didn't think so. Musicians and actors are the ones who roll in the dough. Every single profession should have equal monetary viability. Period. Whether or not YOU or anyone else who doesn't want to play it, likes it.
So you are telling me that because I am an Armorsmith - I should make as much money as, lets say, a Smuggler?
'Comeon. Think before you type.
Message Edited by Saarek on 06-20-2005 10:29 AM
Are you telling me that because you're a smuggler, you should expect to make more money than one type of prof, or less than another, and you're expected to like it?
Come on, Saarek. You're a smart boy. YOU think before you type. If SOE expects there to be any diversity among it's professions, they need to account for the fact that 75% of people in the game will want to play something that allows them to succeed. Only about 25% of the population will play a profession because they WANT to.
There need to be incentives to play a profession. Or it will not be played. SOE's approach to nobody wanting to play a class is not fixing the class... it's just making it less useful, so the l337 kiddies that don't want to have to deal with them don't have to.
ChiiTWINS wrote:
Only about 25% of the population will play a profession because they WANT to.
There need to be incentives to play a profession. Or it will not be played. SOE's approach to nobody wanting to play a class is not fixing the class... it's just making it less useful, so the l337 kiddies that don't want to have to deal with them don't have to.
I wonder what the percentage breakdown of profession to server population is? It be interesting to see if that 25% is composed of entertainers, smugglers, rangers, and squad leaders. This sums those profs up nicely.
ChiiTWINS wrote:
Are you telling me that because you're a smuggler, you should expect to make more money than one type of prof, or less than another, and you're expected to like it?
Come on, Saarek. You're a smart boy. YOU think before you type. If SOE expects there to be any diversity among it's professions, they need to account for the fact that 75% of people in the game will want to play something that allows them to succeed. Only about 25% of the population will play a profession because they WANT to.
There need to be incentives to play a profession. Or it will not be played. SOE's approach to nobody wanting to play a class is not fixing the class... it's just making it less useful, so the l337 kiddies that don't want to have to deal with them don't have to.
I'll say it again.
I have had, since live, exactly two characters; one Master Smuggler/Pistoleer (recently respeced to MS/MBH) and one Master Dancer/TKM.
The past two years have seen the following for my two characters:
Smuggler - exactly NOTHING. No smuggling...which is what any half-whit would think a Smuggler should do.
Dancer - the profession screwed first with the Holo-grind that made professions like entertainers grind and throwaway professions. Then screwed again with the proliferation of bufbots. And finally screwed totally with the CU.
Now we hear that entertainers should "be patient"? ROFLMAO. Don't forget that as a MS I've been told that for TWO FREAKING YEARS! Why on God's Little Green Earth would I believe the same lame line when applied to entertainers?
SWG has been in a downward spiral and the reason is that it is being continually dumbed-down for the masses. The richness and depth to the game is all but gone.
SpinningCloud wrote:
I have had, since live, exactly two characters; one Master Smuggler/Pistoleer (recently respeced to MS/MBH) and one Master Dancer/TKM.
The past two years have seen the following for my two characters:
Smuggler - exactly NOTHING. No smuggling...which is what any half-whit would think a Smuggler should do.
Dancer - the profession screwed first with the Holo-grind that made professions like entertainers grind and throwaway professions. Then screwed again with the proliferation of bufbots. And finally screwed totally with the CU.
Now we hear that entertainers should "be patient"? ROFLMAO. Don't forget that as a MS I've been told that for TWO FREAKING YEARS! Why on God's Little Green Earth would I believe the same lame line when applied to entertainers?
SWG has been in a downward spiral and the reason is that it is being continually dumbed-down for the masses. The richness and depth to the game is all but gone.
Now THAT is whyan Entertainer should be PO'ed.
Not because "people make more money than me".
TomoRainer wrote:
Ah, come on. What was so great about BF in the first place? First off, you didn't need an entertainer as a person, or an entertainer, you needed them as an object. They may as well have been an NPC. A lively, at-the-keyboard entertainer was more fun than an AFK one, but in terms of actually doing what you're there for, an afk buffbot was actually better. They can be there 24 hours a day, don't hassle you for tips, in fact don't do anything to intrude on you or your gaming. If forced interaction for the sake of force interaction is a good thing--if a simple timesink is considered "smart" game design, or that, in any event, removing it is to "dumb down" the game--the most effective entertainers are the ones that don't actually play the game. The ones, in fact, that the real entertainers, the ones at their keyboard trying to entertain us, may well consider the greatest threat to their profession.
Yes it did "force" interaction with Entertainers. BF wasn't great, and you needed to get rid of it for maximum effectiveness of buffs and Stims. So you went to see an entertainer, and when grinding the best ones were the "buff bots" that not only took care of mind wounds and all but also took care of BF. The CU borked that part of it, but still "forced" going to an Entertainer for BF removal, with the addition of getting the inspiration buffs for XP. Now what happens when BF goes away? They get props and can put on plays? Might sound nice for veteran players and for RP groups, but Entertainers - I mean the ATK ones that would talk to you while you were there - are still hosed. Yes, Entertainers are social creatures, but they were ATK Entertainers because they *knew* people were going to come in to get healed. It sure wasn't the money, because the buffbots were raking in all the cash.
Secondly.. does anyone know what BF actually does? It used to make buffs less effective, but nobody really gets buffs anymore. So what does it do? Other than make us go see an entertainer now and then when we've died a few times and we decide it's too high? What was so great about BF, again?
Entertainers need valuable skills, but they need skills that make us want to go see them, not skills that force us to go see them. (I think JFreeman may have said something along those lines, too, but just because a dev said it doesn't make it wrong. Fun gaming's about creating positive reinforcements, not negatives.) Not only that, but they need skills that make them feel like entertainers. The changes they're talking about putting in sound like they'll make entertainers feel more like the type of profession they chose to play.. and not out of financial reasons, or status-based ones, but because they want to entertain.
It may have been a simple time sink, but at least (pre-CU) there was a benefit for seeing one. With a mind buff you were able to play the game at a high level. That was the catch. Doc Buffs/Ent Buffs/Comp armor and off you go. All those buffs are gone, but Docs can still heal and buff the HAM a bit - they are useful to a group that's hunting. There is a *need* there. With the elimination of BF, what *need* will there be for entertainers? That's what I am asking. What can an entertainer do for me as a fighter that will help me when I'm fighting? I need an Armorsmith and A Weaponsmith, Artisan for speeders, so I *need* crafters and those crafters are usually interdependent on another profession. However, the *need* for Entertainers is going away (it's gone now if you think about it). The Dancer/Musician depends on interaction for XP and for credits, and if no one needs them for healing, then that will be gone.
Veteran players will remember when they needed to go to a Cantina to get mind healing, but it will fall into the "that was then, this is now" sort of thing. Ifnew playersdon't need to see an entertainer, if sitting and watching/listening won't helpthem fight, thenthey won't spend the time with them. I can understand the mindset. If I want "social interaction" I've got MSN and ICQ - I don't need a chat room with 3D toons to talk to people.
I'm not an entertainer, so I don't think I am speaking or can speak for them. But judging from the role they choose to take, and how I heard their summit went tonight, I do think they view most of this stuff as a good thing. I think they want to entertain in the same way we want to smuggle. Many of us have said we'd give up slicing, spice, and all the rest if only we could smuggle. I think, in a way, that's what we're seeing here: they're giving up a skill, and a useful one, but it's being replaced with skills that should both be useful and make them feel like real entertainers.
I can't find fault with that.
I think everything sounds good on paper. Once the Entertainers have hadtheir plays and concerts (if that's possible) and then people stop showing up, the accounts will start to close. If the player has an alt. account, it may stay open. But the people that were dedicated Entertainers will be lost for good. Tell me again how that benefits SWG or SOE in any way? The players get a dumbed-down version of the game, and SWG loses a unique facet of their universe.
TomoRainer wrote:
Ah, come on. What was so great about BF in the first place? First off, you didn't need an entertainer as a person, or an entertainer, you needed them as an object. They may as well have been an NPC.
Do you really need your Weaponsmith as a person? The "entertaining" and "personality-related", whether IC or OOC, aspect of the Entertainer profession doesn't mean that profession interdependencies should be completely removed in their case...
Saarek wrote:
Now THAT is whyan Entertainer should be PO'ed.
Not because "people make more money than me".
Saarek, I misjudged you. And for that I am sorry.
I assumed that you had actually taken the time to read my post, instead of skimming and leaping to conclusions. That would have been my fault, and I should not have assumed such. After all, we all know what happens when you assume. 
To the poster who's name I have now forgotten, who Saarek was responding to in my above quote -- hear, hear. I have been damn near everything at some point over the past two years. You do get sick of hearing it after a while, I agree.