Smuggler Archive
Thread: Smuggler Revamp Community Vision Doc
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Very cool Geevo
These guys have really worked on this stuff, and I'll freely admit I ripped stuff from them
Nobody ripped anything off ... we all worked together ... called team-work to create a COMMUNITY vision.
Rogue135 wrote:
Geevo wrote:
- Remove randomness of slicing and have changes be based off of hte quality of tools used in combination with the quality of the item being sliced.
I'm going to put this as simply as I can...
I am completely, utterly, against tool quality having anything to do with slicing. All that does is make us compete for the best tools, leave that to the crafters. If I wanted to spend all my time looking for the best resources to make my buisness run, I'd be a Weaponsmith or something.
I'm glad you think so Wes, I'd like to remind you, and everyone else that your statement epitomizes the object of this excercise. We want people to input, in a line by line manner things they like and things they don't like.
Raanan did a good job of this by putting his thoughts on the portions of the doc he disagreed with. Now we know that we can either remove, reword, or completely change that portion of the doc.
You'll notice, at least in the Slicing section, that we included contradictory items (the slice=experimentation idea, and the pick-o-slice) the point is to have the input to say, I like x, and don't like z. So that we can then make the adjustments.
Also, I think the best way to add new ideas, is to insert them into doc where you think they should go. Start with the vrief summary, and then at the end put in the detailed description (if it something entirely new).
Keep up the good work guys, we are making progress!
-Arashi
Rogue135 wrote:
Geevo wrote:
- Remove randomness of slicing and have changes be based off of hte quality of tools used in combination with the quality of the item being sliced.
I'm going to put this as simply as I can...
I am completely, utterly, against tool quality having anything to do with slicing. All that does is make us compete for the best tools, leave that to the crafters. If I wanted to spend all my time looking for the best resources to make my buisness run, I'd be a Weaponsmith or something.
I'm going to put this as simply as I can....
I agree, but a larget percent of the community does not, and therefore we have included it.
I have removed the randomness factor ... lets see how many complaints I get (and that will determine if it goes back in)
Message Edited by Geevo on 05-30-2004 08:53 AM
New Additions to Dirty Fighting
This list comprises what could be added and changed in the Dirty Fighting line to improve it, make it fun, and worthwhile.
XP Change: Change XP needed to gain levels from Pistol XP to Combat XP so it will coincide with unarmed moves as well as pitol moves. (450,000 Pistol XP should be changed to 45,000 Combat XP)
NICE. I didn't calculate the amount right when I put up my ideas- I just took from the other professions which really doesn't apply. This is perfect.
Unarmed Moves:Unarmed 4 is a prerequisite for Smugglers and our combat line should support that. We, as Smugglers already have a knock down, blind, and stun attack. So a combo of a ranged and melee special or dizzy attack would be in order and that would be a good Masters Box special attack.
Last Ditch/Low Blow: Very valuable specials but Last Ditch could be better suited to the Master Box (unless something better is put there) as a deterrent for dabblers and a reward for true Smugglers. Low Blow is good and should remain where it is.
SWEET.I agree TOTALLY.The best pistol shot in the game SHOULD be in a masters box.
Combat Mods: A Master Smuggler without Pistoleer or Teras Kasi can hardly hit the broad side of a barn and even if a special hits, the delay aloen could kill the user. Maybe "Dirty Fighting Speed" or "Dirty Fighting Accuracy" would be in order to make the unarmed and pistol specials effective.
So in otherwords, this would be a bonus to accruracy and speed for our specials only right? That's just SO crazy it just might WORK! Yeah, I like this a lot.
Mitigation: Ranged and Melee MItigation 1 are ok, but maybe a step up to level 2 would be good since we come from Unarmed 4 (melee) and Pistol 4 (ranged) roots.
Hmmm. I dunno- seems like if I REALLY wanted it I should take one of the pure combatprofs
Uses for Dirty Fighting
Dirty Fighting should be a viable and useful skill to a smuggler in both the PvP and PvE arenas. As is, we have two working specials for both and Feign Death is only good for PvE when you have friends with you to kill the MOB while you Feign Death (or you attack, FD, heal, attack, FD, heal, attack ...which is not the premise of FD). Allowing a SMuggler to be able to help their group retreat when over-powered is a unique skill that we used to have adn we s hould have it again.
Dirty Fighting should be able to work down and kill creatures and NPCs in PVE since specials like Panic Shot and Feign Death will only help you run away. That does not gain the Smuggler much XP and hinders them from gaining levels. Dirty Fighting against MOBs should be inventive moves designed to dispatch a foe in an untraditional manner.
In PvP or against a Bounty Hunter, the specials should represent an unorthodox fighting style that is definitely not the most honorable or common thing but will get the job done. This could be accomplished by the underhanded moves being designed to let the Smuggler get away or if unable to get away, to incapacitate and kill another person in a last ditch effort to survive.
This is something I disagree with. I know we don't get xp from running away BUT we do have the option of taking on professions with FULL combat capabilities. Our main focus as Smugglers SHOULD be things that allow us to run away as NO OTHER profession has that ability.
A person who takes smuggler should not be able to toe to toe a BountyHunter but S/he should be able to get away from a bounty hunter. A person who takes Smuggler/Commando should be able to toe to toe aBH anda person who takes Smuggler/Pistoleer/TKA should be able to make a BH think twice about taking that mission. Above anything else one should look at the amount ofSP it takes tobecome a KICKASS character over one you have to play a little smarter.
This profession is ALL about being sneaky and underhanded. We shouldn'ttry to fill our plate with "asskicking" abilities as a smuggler should never be able tofight as well as they are able toavoid fighting- UNLESS they spend the SP to do so.
Changes to Dirty Fighting
THis list comprises changes to the Dirty Fighting line that would coincide with the proposals above.
- Fixing Feign Death in PvE so that enemy mobs will not re-agro depending on distance, current targets it is engaged with, time, and damage done.
Cool.
- Fixing Feign Death in PvP so the massive "Black Rot" and griefing can no longer occur. Depending on the level of Feign Death mod, the Smuggler will appear as a corpse to other players that is un-attackable, and unable to be hit with a posture-up attack.
Cool.
- Fix Panic Shot back to its correct unbreakable delay as it is an elite profession move and not a novice skill. This would work for PvP and PvE.
Cool.
- Changing current XP type from Pistol to Combat XP to better reflect our hybrid combat roots and allow Smugglers to use pistol or unarmed to level.
True.
- The addition of unarmed moves: "Haymaker" at level 2 that could be used to bleed and dizzy an opponent; "Sucker Punch" at level 3 that is a posture-down and intimidate; "Knockout" at level 4 that is a 4x Damage (like Last Ditch).
Sweet, but as with Last Ditch- maybe this should be in the Master's Box.
- The addition of a combat move at Master Smuggler "Smuggler Blitz" that would land a kick ot the stomach (or) a shot to knock the opponent down automatically followed by a powerful pistol shot. This could knock down, stun, and dizzy but would be a very high delay and HAM cost to the Smuggler.
I always wanted something like that. It'll be interesting if they allow it.
- The addition of a combat move at Master Smuggler "Escape Shot" which (like Panic Shot) delays the target, but this would provide a 20-30 second delay to BOTH the target AND the Smuggler, it would also eliminate the delay during those 20 seconds so the Smuggler could call a vehicle or ship. This would provide an opportunity to actually escape.
Is this like my idea for a DISRUPTOR CHARGE UNIT (where the smuggler uses a device to set off a pulse charge that disables ranged weapons in a X radius for 20-30 seconds- including their own)? I still like that idea as it being something weCRAFT because it kinda goes with us using droid bombs and building precision knives- ya know? It's really "BATMAN-Y". But if this is the only way to get it in- HEY, I'm DOWN.
Message Edited by HOTDOG on 05-30-2004 11:12 AM
HOTDOG wrote:
New Additions to Dirty Fighting
This list comprises what could be added and changed in the Dirty Fighting line to improve it, make it fun, and worthwhile.
XP Change: Change XP needed to gain levels from Pistol XP to Combat XP so it will coincide with unarmed moves as well as pitol moves. (450,000 Pistol XP should be changed to 45,000 Combat XP)
NICE. I didn't calculate the amount right when I put up my ideas- I just took from the other professions which really doesn't apply. This is perfect.
Unarmed Moves:Unarmed 4 is a prerequisite for Smugglers and our combat line should support that. We, as Smugglers already have a knock down, blind, and stun attack. So a combo of a ranged and melee special or dizzy attack would be in order and that would be a good Masters Box special attack.
Last Ditch/Low Blow: Very valuable specials but Last Ditch could be better suited to the Master Box (unless something better is put there) as a deterrent for dabblers and a reward for true Smugglers. Low Blow is good and should remain where it is.
SWEET.I agree TOTALLY.The best pistol shot in the game SHOULD be in a masters box.
Combat Mods: A Master Smuggler without Pistoleer or Teras Kasi can hardly hit the broad side of a barn and even if a special hits, the delay aloen could kill the user. Maybe "Dirty Fighting Speed" or "Dirty Fighting Accuracy" would be in order to make the unarmed and pistol specials effective.
So in otherwords, this would be a bonus to accruracy and speed for our specials only right? That's just SO crazy it just might WORK! Yeah, I like this a lot.
Mitigation: Ranged and Melee MItigation 1 are ok, but maybe a step up to level 2 would be good since we come from Unarmed 4 (melee) and Pistol 4 (ranged) roots.
Hmmm. I dunno- seems like if I REALLY wanted it I should take one of the pure combatprofs
If you wanted Mitigation 3, you could take a pure combat profession ... this maxes at mitigation 2.
Uses for Dirty Fighting
Dirty Fighting should be a viable and useful skill to a smuggler in both the PvP and PvE arenas. As is, we have two working specials for both and Feign Death is only good for PvE when you have friends with you to kill the MOB while you Feign Death (or you attack, FD, heal, attack, FD, heal, attack ...which is not the premise of FD). Allowing a SMuggler to be able to help their group retreat when over-powered is a unique skill that we used to have adn we s hould have it again.
Dirty Fighting should be able to work down and kill creatures and NPCs in PVE since specials like Panic Shot and Feign Death will only help you run away. That does not gain the Smuggler much XP and hinders them from gaining levels. Dirty Fighting against MOBs should be inventive moves designed to dispatch a foe in an untraditional manner.
In PvP or against a Bounty Hunter, the specials should represent an unorthodox fighting style that is definitely not the most honorable or common thing but will get the job done. This could be accomplished by the underhanded moves being designed to let the Smuggler get away or if unable to get away, to incapacitate and kill another person in a last ditch effort to survive.
This is something I disagree with. I know we don't get xp from running away BUT we do have the option of taking on professions with FULL combat capabilities. Our main focus as Smugglers SHOULD be things that allow us to run away as NO OTHER profession has that ability.
I understand your point, but I think there should be something that causes massive damage to kill ... with a chance of failure and heavy delays ... a true 'if you use this, you will win, or die in the attempt'
A person who takes smuggler should not be able to toe to toe a BountyHunter but S/he should be able to get away from a bounty hunter. A person who takes Smuggler/Commando should be able to toe to toe aBH anda person who takes Smuggler/Pistoleer/TKA should be able to make a BH think twice about taking that mission. Above anything else one should look at the amount ofSP it takes tobecome a KICKASS character over one you have to play a little smarter.
I agree 100%
This profession is ALL about being sneaky and underhanded. We shouldn'ttry to fill our plate with "asskicking" abilities as a smuggler should never be able tofight as well as they are able toavoid fighting- UNLESS they spend the SP to do so.
Changes to Dirty Fighting
THis list comprises changes to the Dirty Fighting line that would coincide with the proposals above.
- Fixing Feign Death in PvE so that enemy mobs will not re-agro depending on distance, current targets it is engaged with, time, and damage done.
Cool.
- Fixing Feign Death in PvP so the massive "Black Rot" and griefing can no longer occur. Depending on the level of Feign Death mod, the Smuggler will appear as a corpse to other players that is un-attackable, and unable to be hit with a posture-up attack.
Cool.
- Fix Panic Shot back to its correct unbreakable delay as it is an elite profession move and not a novice skill. This would work for PvP and PvE.
Cool.
- Changing current XP type from Pistol to Combat XP to better reflect our hybrid combat roots and allow Smugglers to use pistol or unarmed to level.
True.
- The addition of unarmed moves: "Haymaker" at level 2 that could be used to bleed and dizzy an opponent; "Sucker Punch" at level 3 that is a posture-down and intimidate; "Knockout" at level 4 that is a 4x Damage (like Last Ditch).
Sweet, but as with Last Ditch- maybe this should be in the Master's Box.
If Last ditch is moved to Master, true...but if we get something better at Master and leave last ditch, I think we should have the unarmed at the same level as last ditch.
- The addition of a combat move at Master Smuggler "Smuggler Blitz" that would land a kick ot the stomach (or) a shot to knock the opponent down automatically followed by a powerful pistol shot. This could knock down, stun, and dizzy but would be a very high delay and HAM cost to the Smuggler.
I always wanted something like that. It'll be interesting if they allow it.
- The addition of a combat move at Master Smuggler "Escape Shot" which (like Panic Shot) delays the target, but this would provide a 20-30 second delay to BOTH the target AND the Smuggler, it would also eliminate the delay during those 20 seconds so the Smuggler could call a vehicle or ship. This would provide an opportunity to actually escape.
Is this like my idea for a DISRUPTOR CHARGE UNIT (where the smuggler uses a device to set off a pulse charge that disables ranged weapons in a X radius for 20-30 seconds- including their own)? I still like that idea as it being something weCRAFT because it kinda goes with us using droid bombs and building precision knives- ya know? It's really "BATMAN-Y". But if this is the only way to get it in- HEY, I'm DOWN.
Never read your disruptor charge unit, I like this idea more simply because it doesn't give us something else to craft or buy.
For the GCW, the security terminal could be moved outside of the bases and the Smuggler would have to slice the terminal for the group to enter (think of Endor with Han trying to open the door to the shield generator) ... it would also have to change the order requirements for base destruction to Smuggler being the first step.
Fast Talking
GCW: A Smuggler can bribe an NPC at a base to get the Vulnerability time ... will also need a method to avoid the Covert Faction Scanner.
Geevo wrote:
- Remove randomness of slicing and have changes be based off of hte quality of tools used in combination with the quality of the item being sliced.
I'm going to put this as simply as I can...
I am completely, utterly, against tool quality having anything to do with slicing. All that does is make us compete for the best tools, leave that to the crafters. If I wanted to spend all my time looking for the best resources to make my buisness run, I'd be a Weaponsmith or something.
Geevo wrote:
For the GCW, the security terminal could be moved outside of the bases and the Smuggler would have to slice the terminal for the group to enter (think of Endor with Han trying to open the door to the shield generator) ... it would also have to change the order requirements for base destruction to Smuggler being the first step.
Yep, makes a lot more sense than the current set up and is also far more Star Wars esq as we see in your example from RotJ. It also seems silly that anyone (including overt opposing PCs) can wander into the base, killing at will without overiding some sort of security. I think this would change base assaults dramatically, with the defender's first goal to be gunning for the master smuggler (the smart people of course having two, one with their title up to attract attention and the other with their title as something else as they go about slicing
). I'd love to see this in the game!
Fast Talking
GCW: A Smuggler can bribe an NPC at a base to get the Vulnerability time ... will also need a method to avoid the Covert Faction Scanner.
Hmm, I don't like the fact that anyone other than the owners know the base vuln time anyway (then again I'm somewhat biased, my city having twoHQs that I'm rather fond of
I was hoping to get feedback from people on these ideas ... any comments?
My two credits... shh, don't tell the Hutts, i'm supposed to be broke
Geevo wrote:
For the GCW, the security terminal could be moved outside of the bases and the Smuggler would have to slice the terminal for the group to enter (think of Endor with Han trying to open the door to the shield generator) ... it would also have to change the order requirements for base destruction to Smuggler being the first step.
Love that idea, everyone else has said it, but i'm going to aswell... Han Solo did it in RotJ, so it fits.
Fast Talking
GCW: A Smuggler can bribe an NPC at a base to get the Vulnerability time ... will also need a method to avoid the Covert Faction Scanner.
No comment on this really, it seems like a good idea though.
I was hoping to get feedback from people on these ideas ... any comments?
