Smuggler Archive
Thread: Smuggler Revamp Community Vision Doc
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
Geevo wrote:
Slices
Overview:
The slicing tree is a very useful skill tree that sets Smuggler's apart from all of the other professions within the game. By slicing various items in the game, Smugglers have a unique role in this persistent universe. It allows us a steady income, and allows us to gain small advantages over other professions (i.e. extra mission payout, access to containers, etc.). With the current state of Spices, Slicing is our bread and butter. However, we are only seeing a modicum of the potential for this skillset.
Items and statistics able to be sliced:
This is a full list of things that could be able to be sliced, including ones we already have access to. This list will provide examples for the Devs to choose from to expand our versatility.
Weapons: HAM, damage, range modifiers, speed, condition, and possibly the type of damage
Armor: Effectiveness, Encumberance, Special Protection, Condition
Terminals: Mission, Bounty Hunter, Travel, Data (mostly for information, not changing permissions or anything that would cause griefing)
Backpack: Extra compartment, extra number of items, lower encumberance, scanner immunity
Vehicles: Speed, durability, Condition
Droids: Nearly all modules could be sliceable for similar stats as weapons and armor, extra storage, extra storage for stims and traps, chassis for additional modules, less battery use, etc.
Doors: In dungeons and adventure zones
Bazaar: Lower price (without cheating seller), additional quantities (without cheating seller), new "Black Market" tab for contraband.
Vendor: Non-NPC vendors only (meaning the vending machines) for same items as the bazaar, and maybe to increase the amount you get for offering an item (without cheating the merchant).
Containers: Locked containers, magseal containers, other loot type items ordungeon compartments (locked, storage devices), possibly somethiing with resource containers.
Uses for slicing:
Slicing could be used to place contraband items on the bazaar or on a vendor (assuming the are truly made illegal) in a new black-market style tab. This would see limited use except by fellow Smugglers and low-level dabblers.
I'm not sure of the purpose of this. Why do we want a smuggler only bazaar? A better question is, why can only smugglers access the black market when we are the ones producing the items sold on the black market? It seems counter productive to me, selling to the manufacturers instead of the consumers. How about a black market terminal everybody can use but only items marked as contraband can be placed there while the contraband items can no longer be placed on the normal bazaar?
Slicing is a great way to use existing terminals to place "Smuggler Missions" on. By slicing the terminal, you gain access to these "Smuggler Only Missions". Placing "Smuggler Mission Terminals" out in the open is blatantly wrong and non-immersive.
Slicing could be used to crack into a Bounty Hunter terminal to remove a name (Jedi or Smuggler), or maybe to change some of the information to stall the Bounty Hunter or lower the bounty amount to make it less desirable. It could also be used to add someone (any player) onto the terminal.
Slicing could be used to access data (the true use of slicing in the Star Wars universe) from various data terminals such as guild halls, player structures, harvesters, etc. Note that this would access data, but not change it. Information can be valuable too, but we do not want a breaking and enering style of use.
Slicing could be used for droids for a variety of affects. We can be interdependent on DE's by giving them the schematic for a Droid Upgrade Kit in the same way we are dependent on Weaponsmiths and Armorsmiths.
You mean, them giving us "duks" (lol love that) right? Doesn't seem to me a duk would be of any use to a de. They can't slice after all.
For the GCW, the security terminal could be moved outside of the bases and the Smuggler would have to slice the terminal for the group to enter (think of Endor with Han trying to open the door to the shield generator) ... it would also have to change the order requirements for base destruction to Smuggler being the first step.
Changes to Slicing:
This is a list of several potential changes to slicing. SOme are dependent on other skills and slicing abilities.
- Creation of a new slicing system that would mimic crafting experimentation complete with 'slicing points' that would allow Smugglers to choose a wider array of stats to slice and control over how much of each stat gets sliced scaled by level of the Smuggler and how many points he/she has to use.
- Pick-o-Slice at the Master Smuggler Level
- Re-certification for the use (not just crafting of) slicing tools to FAN's at Novice Smuggler and Clamps at Slice 3.
- Create a "Slicing Station" that would work as a crafting station, allowing a smuggler to have more tools and space available to him/her to allow the Smuggler acces to bigger and better slicing options.
- Remove randomness of slicing and have changes be based off of hte quality of tools used in combination with the quality of the item being sliced.
I don't get why everyone hates randomness. Sure slicing should be LESS random at master and not more but removing the randomness entirely? Where's the fun in that?
- Remove the ability to slice non-mechanical objects (i.e. a Stone Knive, where are those wires?)
- Change the interface to be more interactive between Smuggler and Client, as in the new ID interface
- Move slicing terminals to Novice Smuggler and Locked Containers to Slicing 1. Containers are held for ransom because people know that Smugglers need them to advance.
- Increase item description to include the specifics on the modifications.
The Good
- Slicing is a good money-maker both in mission terminals for newer players and as income for Slicers/Masters.
- Slicing is a good money-sink for the economy.
- Slicing has been an added feature in small portions to newer dungeons and adventure zones.
- Slicing is a niche skill that helps to define the Smuggler Professions.
- The scaling of what you can slice at what level is functionally a good idea.
- The player-base is dependent on Slicing for armor and weapons allowing us to be sought out as a profession.
- The increased percentages at Master Level (although not yet documented on the skill tree).
The Bad
- The player-base is dependent on slicing for weapons and armor at little to no risk.
- Limited use in dungeons (Magseal containers anyone).
- The number of slicable items is very limited at the moment.
- Slicing into non-mechanical objects does not make sense (cut wire in stone knife)
- Players giving items to a Smuggler to slice iswide open to griefing by dishonest Smugglers.
- The wide use of Molecular Clamps makes FANs useless, and creates more of a 'grind' mentality for the first few skills.
- Limited market by the player-base for non-master Smugglers.
- Limited types of slices in a system that has many different statistics on an item.
- Current level of randomness does not make sense for Smugglers who are very experienced Slicers.
- Inability to slice into data terminals which is the Expanded Universe use for slicing (equated to hacking on Earth).
Message Edited by Geevo on 05-29-2004 02:48 AM
Good Work Geevo! Very Nicely done. I only got a chance to skim over everything, so I probably missed parts of it - but I must say that this is a pretty good vision. If I was to change something though, I would proably go with Caylins slicing version as opposed to this one. It just seems that all of these ideas are summed up very nicely in Caylin's "experimentation" proposal. One other thing that I would take out is the state resists section in underworld. I dont think this is very smuggler-related, and dont really like its addition in either this or Caylins document. It just seems to be stepping over the boundry in terms of what we should be looking for.
Everything else though is looking good! Thanks for all of your hard work!!! 
What's missing here is some kind of system to cover the Drawbacks of using our Smuggler Abilities. Since this is half of the Overall vision it's kind of important that that be included to justify the plusses we want. What follows is an outline for that.
Salient Detail: Smuggler Missions, Smuggler Infamy/Bounties
The first major challenge presented in the Overview is actually in the second part: Creating drawbacks to Smuggler acquisition of goods and services. We can easily think of desirable Smuggler items and services, but what are the challenges Smugglers are presented with in their acquisition? Essentially, what form does the Content take? More specifically, are those risks and challenges PvE or PvP in nature?
So here we present two ways of delivering that content, whichcould be implemented in tandem, and the ups and downs of each. Smuggler Infamy (the PvP method) and Smuggler Missions (the PvE method). I actually have chosen to outline a system where the two methods are tied together, as two sides of the same coin essentially. This leaves it up to the Smuggler themselves to choose whether they pursue the PvP or PvE path, or whatever mixture of the two they prefer.
Smuggler Infamy
- Smuggler activities (Slicing,crafting spice, purchasing or selling Faction, etc.) generate a sort of visibility or Infamy rating.
- Infamy Increases occurwhen the Smugglerchooses to use anoptional bonus (e.g. an extra 5% Slicing bonus or Faction purchase at a slightly cheaper rate, or crafting/obtaining certain extra powerful high-level Spices). Certain PvP oriented abilities (like Faction purchase discounts and TEF removing ID badges) may only be accessible through Infamy Increases (and not through Smuggler Missions).
- Upon reaching some threshold of Infamy, a Bounty is placed on the Smuggler.
- The Bounty is removed when either the BH kills the Smuggler, or the Smuggler completes a series of tasks involving travel and the use of Smuggler skills to appease the NPC organization that "placed" the Bounty, all the while using their Smuggler abilities to evade the Bounty Hunter.Essentially a race between Hunter and Hunted, this system would be modeled after Han Solo's exploits in the films, when Jabba had placed a bounty on him, and he was trying to "get Jabba his money" before some Bounty Hunter collected.
- If a Bounty Hunter successfuly terminates a Bountied Smuggler, the Smuggler loses the ability to use the optional Infamy-increasing bonuses/abilities until their Infamy rating cools off to 0. (This is to prevent abuse of the system by BH/Smuggler teams)
- Infamy drops slowly over time ("lying low"), and can also be reduced more quickly by performing Smuggler Missions and getting a Good Rep reward (see below).
- While this would require some amount of work to develop, once implemented content would be almost 100% Player generated. Smugglers deal with players, gain Infamy, and then are pursued by (and escape) Player Bounty Hunters.
Smuggler Missions
- A PvE system whereby Smugglers must complete terminal-style missions to gain access to the illegal goods and services.
- These missions can basically be Complex Delivery missions, with opportunities for ethical decisions and unique rewards and obstacles along the way. These would be about as intensive and time consuming as a Bounty Hunter Mission currently is.
- Possible rewards include: Cash, Non-Craftable Spices, Slicing Tools that allow the highest quality slices without the Infamy increase. "Good Rep" rewards that lower the Smuggler's current Infamy rating, andSpice Additives that allow you to craft Spices withoutthe Infamy increase (you make the Spices harder to trace/detect).Basically almost anything you can get by sacrificing Infamy increases, and some other fun stuff as well.
- To remove a Smuggler Bounty, a special Mission may be required to be performed for the NPC organization that "placed the Bounty".
- This would of course be content heavy, since it's PvE.
With both these systems in place, a Smuggler would be able to choose the level of Risk they wish to undertake. Accepting Infamy increases would be a faster way to deliver Smuggler goods and services to customers, but also more risky. Taking PvE Smuggler Missions would be slower but safer and more predictable. By mixing together however muchInfamy increasing behavior and Playing it Safebehaviorthey are comfortable with, each Smuggler can find a playstyle that suits them. If you want to be a brazen risk-taking Smuggler, you can. If you want to be the trusted associate of a major crime boss, you can be that too.
The specifics (such as exactly what the rewards are and how much Infamy would be needed to get Bountied) are of course variable, the only key elements are:
- High-end Smuggler Acquisitionsare accessed either byInfamy Increases or through Smuggler Missions.
- High Infamy leads to Bounties.
- Smugglers have skills to evade Bounty Hunters and get Bounties removed.
- Infamy reduces slowly over time (as the heat cools off) or by doing favors (Smuggler Missions) for important people/NPC Organizations.
My suggestion here is that the Underworld Skill tree be used to handle everything related to Smuggler Missions (such as Mission level and type) and Infamy/Bounties (such as counter-Bounty Hunter abilities like alerts when you are bountied and tricks to throw them off the track).
I have never agreed with asking for the universe to get the galaxy and will never agree with it. It isn't honest but manipulative. State what you want and leave it at that. Being absolutely honest is the only way to receive absolute honesty.
Geevo wrote:
Dirty Fighting
Overview
Dirty Fighting is an essential part of a Smuggler's life. They are sometimes pressed into tough situations that require the unique mind of a Smuggler and their unorthodox fighting abilitities to escape from dangerous situations. As is, we have the best pistol special in hte game and a ranged knock down. Panic Shot is effectively useless for anyone with decent pistol mods. Feign Death is now useless for the solo Smuggler as a MOB you Feign Death on will re-agro and chase the Smuggler from several hundred meters away even if being swarmed by numerous new attackers. These should be fixed, modified, and have new additions.
New Additions to Dirty Fighting
This list comprises what could be added and changed in the Dirty Fighting line to improve it, make it fun, and worthwhile.
Feign Death/Panic Shot: Fixing the current incarnation of Panic Shot and Feign Death so they are fun and useful where Smugglers will have them in their hotbar again.
I agree with that statement concerning Panic Shot but including feign death in there bugs me. Fd is far from useless. It has problems yes but it is NOT useless. It's also still incredibly fun to use with its problems. Ever gone night sister hunting with a fellow smuggler? Nothing funnier then getting mobbed, feigning, then getting up and kicking their asses.
XP Change: Change XP needed to gain levels from Pistol XP to Combat XP so it will coincide with unarmed moves as well as pitol moves. (450,000 Pistol XP should be changed to 45,000 Combat XP)
Still iffy on the combat xp but I suppose that could just be bad memories of when I did commando in my noob days.
Unarmed Moves:Unarmed 4 is a prerequisite for Smugglers and our combat line should support that. We, as Smugglers already have a knock down, blind, and stun attack. So a combo of a ranged and melee special or dizzy attack would be in order and that would be a good Masters Box special attack.
Last Ditch/Low Blow: Very valuable specials but Last Ditch could be better suited to the Master Box (unless something better is put there) as a deterrent for dabblers and a reward for true Smugglers. Low Blow is good and should remain where it is.
Combat Mods: A Master Smuggler without Pistoleer or Teras Kasi can hardly hit the broad side of a barn and even if a special hits, the delay aloen could kill the user. Maybe "Dirty Fighting Speed" or "Dirty Fighting Accuracy" would be in order to make the unarmed and pistol specials effective.
Mitigation: Ranged and Melee MItigation 1 are ok, but maybe a step up to level 2 would be good since we come from Unarmed 4 (melee) and Pistol 4 (ranged) roots.
Holy overpowered, batman! You want us to have a delay, dizzy, and knockdown? All at the same time? With combat mods and better mitigation? While still being able to pick up other elite combat professions? You don't seea problem there? There was a reason delays were nerfed to have their timer interuptable. People were using them to glue a person to the ground while they beat the hell out of them. The devs saw how overpowered that was so delays got nerfed. Dizzy didn't because you still have the chance of getting up. Absolutely no profession should be able to have a riskless way of combat such as the kd/delay we used to have. As for the combat mods, we are NOT a pure combat profession and should NOT be on par with pur combat professions. Especially not when we can easily pick up pur combat professions. You say a straight pistols 4 with the df line is pretty much useless. That is entirely false. Just yesterday I went hunting on dath with just pistols 4 and the df line. I didn't die. I never even got close while killing giant baz nitches, gaping spider hunters (well, got close on those. Damned poisen), even Rhoa kwi's and the offshoots of those. I did watch a fencer die though. I really don't know what you all are doing to make you think having only pistols 4 and unarmed 4 mods is instant death but it's totally not true. Also, what's the point of taking mitigation up to 2 for the df line? It doesn't stack and if you're into combat you're going to have some other profession giving you mitigation 3 in either ranged or melee or even both. It's a pointless suggestion.
Uses for Dirty Fighting
Dirty Fighting should be a viable and useful skill to a smuggler in both the PvP and PvE arenas. As is, we have two working specials for both and Feign Death is only good for PvE when you have friends with you to kill the MOB while you Feign Death (or you attack, FD, heal, attack, FD, heal, attack ...which is not the premise of FD). Allowing a SMuggler to be able to help their group retreat when over-powered is a unique skill that we used to have adn we s hould have it again.
Panic shot works fine. It's a crowd control tool just like warcry. The only difference is, it's done with a pistol. I would like to see the timer increased to 20s from 10 though. I agree with the assessment of fd here as well. It should let us get away which it currently does not. Usefulness in pvp hmm... what are you trying to do? Get out of combat or be the victor in combat? Seems to me, a nice /lowblow; /panicshot; /peace; /burstrun; macro would work just fine in pvp. We aren't supposed to be pvp gods. We're supposed to be able to get away alive.
Dirty Fighting should be able to work down and kill creatures and NPCs in PVE since specials like Panic Shot and Feign Death will only help you run away. That does not gain the Smuggler much XP and hinders them from gaining levels. Dirty Fighting against MOBs should be inventive moves designed to dispatch a foe in an untraditional manner.
Usefulleness in pve, again, hmm... what game are you playing? I'll refer you to my paragraph above the last one. I got a good 100k pistol xp in an hour while hunting on dath. How is that not gaining much xp? I fail to see any hinderance in my experience.
In PvP or against a Bounty Hunter, the specials should represent an unorthodox fighting style that is definitely not the most honorable or common thing but will get the job done. This could be accomplished by the underhanded moves being designed to let the Smuggler get away or if unable to get away, to incapacitate and kill another person in a last ditch effort to survive.
Incap and kill?! Good god! No offense but if half the changes in this section go down, we'll have every "l337" mother **edit**er taking the df line in their annoying pursuit of being "uber." All we need are specials to get away. I'll repeat again, we aren't supposed to be pvp gods. Were are just supposed to be able to survive. We have that ability now. WIth melee specials, we'll have an even better chance.
Changes to Dirty Fighting
My issues were covered above.
THis list comprises changes to the Dirty Fighting line that would coincide with the proposals above.
- Fixing Feign Death in PvE so that enemy mobs will not re-agro depending on distance, current targets it is engaged with, time, and damage done.
- Fixing Feign Death in PvP so the massive "Black Rot" and griefing can no longer occur. Depending on the level of Feign Death mod, the Smuggler will appear as a corpse to other players that is un-attackable, and unable to be hit with a posture-up attack.
- Fix Panic Shot back to its correct unbreakable delay as it is an elite profession move and not a novice skill. This would work for PvP and PvE.
- Changing current XP type from Pistol to Combat XP to better reflect our hybrid combat roots and allow Smugglers to use pistol or unarmed to level.
- The addition of unarmed moves: "Haymaker" at level 2 that could be used to bleed and dizzy an opponent; "Sucker Punch" at level 3 that is a posture-down and intimidate; "Knockout" at level 4 that is a 4x Damage (like Last Ditch).
- The addition of a combat move at Master Smuggler "Smuggler Blitz" that would land a kick ot the stomach (or) a shot to knock the opponent down automatically followed by a powerful pistol shot. This could knock down, stun, and dizzy but would be a very high delay and HAM cost to the Smuggler.
- The addition of a combat move at Master Smuggler "Escape Shot" which (like Panic Shot) delays the target, but this would provide a 20-30 second delay to BOTH the target AND the Smuggler, it would also eliminate the delay during those 20 seconds so the Smuggler could call a vehicle or ship. This would provide an opportunity to actually escape.
- Pistol and Unarmed mods or the addition of "Dirty Fighting accuracy and speed" which would reduce the delay of a dirty fighting special and the accuracy of the attack.
- Ranged Mitigation 1 at level 1, Melee Mitigation 1 at level 3, and both Ranged adn Melee Mitigation 2 at Master Smuggler.
The Good:
- Last Ditch Assault is the best pistol special in the game.
- Low Blow is a good ranged knock down.
- Can be used with any pistol.
- Feign Death can save your life if you are with a group.
The Bad:
- No unarmed moves even though one of our prerequisites is Unarmed 4.
- Standing up from Feign Death in PvE will make the MOB come after the Smuggler from several hundred meters away even if it is beign swarmed by several new tarets.
- Using Feign Death in PvP is openly inviting "Black Rot" (1,000 Battle Fatigue, 1/1 HAM on all stats from wounds, and 0 condition armor) and massive griefing.
- Panic Shot is worthless to any smuggler with decent pistol mods since the pistol will fire again; breaking the delay, immediately after Panic Shot is landed. This second tier elite profession skill was "balanced" to coincide with a Novice box starting profession skill.
- No modifiers to help a smuggler land his specials. A smuggler without Pistoleer can kill himself on accuracy, delay, and HAM cost of his own specials before he can hit his target.
- Only Ranged and Melee Mitigation 1
- Very easily dabbled in for Pistoleers who only pick up Dirty Fighting (could be solved by adding best special at Master Smuggler).
Message Edited by Geevo on 05-29-2004 02:14 AM
Well, I'll admit that taking the criticism was harder than I thought. But, it's needed to clear these up as 3/4 of the Dirty Fighting in both Caylin's and the Community docs are the same. The only differences being that of the weapon-equipped melee attacks (which was discussed and I liked...think we should go with that), the addition of "ship tricks", and Caylin is just a 110% better writer than I am...I'm way too wordy.
It'd be good to have some more input but I see where you're coming from on the "over-powered" opinion. I didn't really intend for every single one of the melee attacks to be included, but simply a list of possibilities. I do think we need a melee attack similar to Last Ditch and another useful one.
As far as Panic Shot and it's usefullness. What game have you been playing? As is, Panic Shot is a second tier Elite profession skill that was nerfed to coincide with a Novice starting profession skill. The difference being between 100 credits plus 15 skill points and 220k (rougly) pistol xp and a crap load of skill points. Not to mention getting Warcry 1 is a prerequisite of becoming a Smuggler, so nerfing Panic Shot down to a prerequisite skill is just pure redundancy and a waste. It needs to be brought up to it's previous usage or something different. As is, it's just worthless.
Feign Death...well, I'll give you partial credit for sure. It has saved my life even after the nerf MANY times. The only problem being that it was done in the wrong way. If I work down a Janta to 300/12k HAM and FD 3m from him...then get up, of course he should reaggro. But if I get shot from 64m away by a Tusken Executioner and I don't do any dmg to himbut still FD right away. Then the Tusken moves to 200m away and is getting swarmed by 5 TKs...that Tusken should NOT reaggro on me...it's just logic. There needs to be a fix for FD that goes by the scale of the FD mod. It only makes sense.
I'll go back and redo my Dirty Fighting, cause like I said...it's being used by the Community Doc and about 75% is in Caylin's in one way or another. I think the Ranged/Melee Mit 2 is ok since not all Smugglers are Master Pistoleers/TKMs. I know many that are Droid Engineers or Merchants or evenWeapon/Armorsmiths. I still think we should have a chance at dispatching a Bounty Hunter. I mean, otherwise, what's the point of having Smuggler bounties if you can't fight back and have a chance to win...it'd be the only way to get rid of the bounty unless the hunter just drops it. Same goes for the specials against PvE; if all the specials are designed to just "get out of Dodge" then how do you gain any xp to level without picking up a second combat profession or just grinding with the Pistol 4/Unarmed 4 moves. And that's not very beneficial for a group either...who would take a smuggler who's best special is Health Shot 1?
Last note I can think of before I make some minor alterations is on the switch to combat xp. This only makes sense if you're going to put Unarmed moves in the line. As for your experience with Commando.../raises his hand...it sucks. But the swap will be exactly on par with what we have now since 3000 pistol xp yields exactly 300 combat xp...essentially, take thepistol xp requirements and divide them by 10 and change it to combat xp. Same thing, you just have the option of becoming a true Brawling smuggler instead of a gunfighter.
Just wish we had more people voicing their opinion than we do now 
Hope everyone hasn't given up...these are very exciting times to be an active smuggler
Vampirerobot wrote:
I agree with Yindo-Gin, I think we need to put a higher priority on revamping spices to make them useful rather than revamping spices to make us feel better about how we obtain them. Smuggling SOME spices from NPCs is a fine idea, but having useful crafted spices is WAY more important.
I understand the point, my concern on Spices is that with all of the current buffs, you can fight nearly forever. With this concern, how would you change it? What would you like to see? What do you think we could provide that 1) Is needed 2) Isn't already provided for?
I want criticizm...but I want solutions, not just pointing out problems please.
Geevo wrote:
Vampirerobot wrote:
I agree with Yindo-Gin, I think we need to put a higher priority on revamping spices to make them useful rather than revamping spices to make us feel better about how we obtain them. Smuggling SOME spices from NPCs is a fine idea, but having useful crafted spices is WAY more important.
I understand the point, my concern on Spices is that with all of the current buffs, you can fight nearly forever. With this concern, how would you change it? What would you like to see? What do you think we could provide that 1) Is needed 2) Isn't already provided for?
I want criticizm...but I want solutions, not just pointing out problems please.
Raanan wrote:
I have never agreed with asking for the universe to get the galaxy and will never agree with it. It isn't honest but manipulative. State what you want and leave it at that. Being absolutely honest is the only way to receive absolute honesty.
Geevo wrote:
Dirty Fighting
Overview
Dirty Fighting is an essential part of a Smuggler's life. They are sometimes pressed into tough situations that require the unique mind of a Smuggler and their unorthodox fighting abilitities to escape from dangerous situations. As is, we have the best pistol special in hte game and a ranged knock down. Panic Shot is effectively useless for anyone with decent pistol mods. Feign Death is now useless for the solo Smuggler as a MOB you Feign Death on will re-agro and chase the Smuggler from several hundred meters away even if being swarmed by numerous new attackers. These should be fixed, modified, and have new additions.
New Additions to Dirty Fighting
This list comprises what could be added and changed in the Dirty Fighting line to improve it, make it fun, and worthwhile.
Feign Death/Panic Shot: Fixing the current incarnation of Panic Shot and Feign Death so they are fun and useful where Smugglers will have them in their hotbar again.
I agree with that statement concerning Panic Shot but including feign death in there bugs me. Fd is far from useless. It has problems yes but it is NOT useless. It's also still incredibly fun to use with its problems. Ever gone night sister hunting with a fellow smuggler? Nothing funnier then getting mobbed, feigning, then getting up and kicking their asses.
XP Change: Change XP needed to gain levels from Pistol XP to Combat XP so it will coincide with unarmed moves as well as pitol moves. (450,000 Pistol XP should be changed to 45,000 Combat XP)
Still iffy on the combat xp but I suppose that could just be bad memories of when I did commando in my noob days.
Unarmed Moves:Unarmed 4 is a prerequisite for Smugglers and our combat line should support that. We, as Smugglers already have a knock down, blind, and stun attack. So a combo of a ranged and melee special or dizzy attack would be in order and that would be a good Masters Box special attack.
Last Ditch/Low Blow: Very valuable specials but Last Ditch could be better suited to the Master Box (unless something better is put there) as a deterrent for dabblers and a reward for true Smugglers. Low Blow is good and should remain where it is.
Combat Mods: A Master Smuggler without Pistoleer or Teras Kasi can hardly hit the broad side of a barn and even if a special hits, the delay aloen could kill the user. Maybe "Dirty Fighting Speed" or "Dirty Fighting Accuracy" would be in order to make the unarmed and pistol specials effective.
Mitigation: Ranged and Melee MItigation 1 are ok, but maybe a step up to level 2 would be good since we come from Unarmed 4 (melee) and Pistol 4 (ranged) roots.
Holy overpowered, batman! You want us to have a delay, dizzy, and knockdown? All at the same time? With combat mods and better mitigation? While still being able to pick up other elite combat professions? You don't seea problem there? There was a reason delays were nerfed to have their timer interuptable. People were using them to glue a person to the ground while they beat the hell out of them. The devs saw how overpowered that was so delays got nerfed. Dizzy didn't because you still have the chance of getting up. Absolutely no profession should be able to have a riskless way of combat such as the kd/delay we used to have. As for the combat mods, we are NOT a pure combat profession and should NOT be on par with pur combat professions. Especially not when we can easily pick up pur combat professions. You say a straight pistols 4 with the df line is pretty much useless. That is entirely false. Just yesterday I went hunting on dath with just pistols 4 and the df line. I didn't die. I never even got close while killing giant baz nitches, gaping spider hunters (well, got close on those. Damned poisen), even Rhoa kwi's and the offshoots of those. I did watch a fencer die though. I really don't know what you all are doing to make you think having only pistols 4 and unarmed 4 mods is instant death but it's totally not true. Also, what's the point of taking mitigation up to 2 for the df line? It doesn't stack and if you're into combat you're going to have some other profession giving you mitigation 3 in either ranged or melee or even both. It's a pointless suggestion.
Uses for Dirty Fighting
Dirty Fighting should be a viable and useful skill to a smuggler in both the PvP and PvE arenas. As is, we have two working specials for both and Feign Death is only good for PvE when you have friends with you to kill the MOB while you Feign Death (or you attack, FD, heal, attack, FD, heal, attack ...which is not the premise of FD). Allowing a SMuggler to be able to help their group retreat when over-powered is a unique skill that we used to have adn we s hould have it again.
Panic shot works fine. It's a crowd control tool just like warcry. The only difference is, it's done with a pistol. I would like to see the timer increased to 20s from 10 though. I agree with the assessment of fd here as well. It should let us get away which it currently does not. Usefulness in pvp hmm... what are you trying to do? Get out of combat or be the victor in combat? Seems to me, a nice /lowblow; /panicshot; /peace; /burstrun; macro would work just fine in pvp. We aren't supposed to be pvp gods. We're supposed to be able to get away alive.
Dirty Fighting should be able to work down and kill creatures and NPCs in PVE since specials like Panic Shot and Feign Death will only help you run away. That does not gain the Smuggler much XP and hinders them from gaining levels. Dirty Fighting against MOBs should be inventive moves designed to dispatch a foe in an untraditional manner.
Usefulleness in pve, again, hmm... what game are you playing? I'll refer you to my paragraph above the last one. I got a good 100k pistol xp in an hour while hunting on dath. How is that not gaining much xp? I fail to see any hinderance in my experience.
In PvP or against a Bounty Hunter, the specials should represent an unorthodox fighting style that is definitely not the most honorable or common thing but will get the job done. This could be accomplished by the underhanded moves being designed to let the Smuggler get away or if unable to get away, to incapacitate and kill another person in a last ditch effort to survive.
Incap and kill?! Good god! No offense but if half the changes in this section go down, we'll have every "l337" mother **edit**er taking the df line in their annoying pursuit of being "uber." All we need are specials to get away. I'll repeat again, we aren't supposed to be pvp gods. Were are just supposed to be able to survive. We have that ability now. WIth melee specials, we'll have an even better chance.
Changes to Dirty Fighting
My issues were covered above.
THis list comprises changes to the Dirty Fighting line that would coincide with the proposals above.
- Fixing Feign Death in PvE so that enemy mobs will not re-agro depending on distance, current targets it is engaged with, time, and damage done.
- Fixing Feign Death in PvP so the massive "Black Rot" and griefing can no longer occur. Depending on the level of Feign Death mod, the Smuggler will appear as a corpse to other players that is un-attackable, and unable to be hit with a posture-up attack.
- Fix Panic Shot back to its correct unbreakable delay as it is an elite profession move and not a novice skill. This would work for PvP and PvE.
- Changing current XP type from Pistol to Combat XP to better reflect our hybrid combat roots and allow Smugglers to use pistol or unarmed to level.
- The addition of unarmed moves: "Haymaker" at level 2 that could be used to bleed and dizzy an opponent; "Sucker Punch" at level 3 that is a posture-down and intimidate; "Knockout" at level 4 that is a 4x Damage (like Last Ditch).
- The addition of a combat move at Master Smuggler "Smuggler Blitz" that would land a kick ot the stomach (or) a shot to knock the opponent down automatically followed by a powerful pistol shot. This could knock down, stun, and dizzy but would be a very high delay and HAM cost to the Smuggler.
- The addition of a combat move at Master Smuggler "Escape Shot" which (like Panic Shot) delays the target, but this would provide a 20-30 second delay to BOTH the target AND the Smuggler, it would also eliminate the delay during those 20 seconds so the Smuggler could call a vehicle or ship. This would provide an opportunity to actually escape.
- Pistol and Unarmed mods or the addition of "Dirty Fighting accuracy and speed" which would reduce the delay of a dirty fighting special and the accuracy of the attack.
- Ranged Mitigation 1 at level 1, Melee Mitigation 1 at level 3, and both Ranged adn Melee Mitigation 2 at Master Smuggler.
The Good:
- Last Ditch Assault is the best pistol special in the game.
- Low Blow is a good ranged knock down.
- Can be used with any pistol.
- Feign Death can save your life if you are with a group.
The Bad:
- No unarmed moves even though one of our prerequisites is Unarmed 4.
- Standing up from Feign Death in PvE will make the MOB come after the Smuggler from several hundred meters away even if it is beign swarmed by several new tarets.
- Using Feign Death in PvP is openly inviting "Black Rot" (1,000 Battle Fatigue, 1/1 HAM on all stats from wounds, and 0 condition armor) and massive griefing.
- Panic Shot is worthless to any smuggler with decent pistol mods since the pistol will fire again; breaking the delay, immediately after Panic Shot is landed. This second tier elite profession skill was "balanced" to coincide with a Novice box starting profession skill.
- No modifiers to help a smuggler land his specials. A smuggler without Pistoleer can kill himself on accuracy, delay, and HAM cost of his own specials before he can hit his target.
- Only Ranged and Melee Mitigation 1
- Very easily dabbled in for Pistoleers who only pick up Dirty Fighting (could be solved by adding best special at Master Smuggler).
Message Edited by Geevo on 05-29-2004 02:14 AM
Broken_Smuggler wrote:
One other thing that I would take out is the state resists section in underworld. I dont think this is very smuggler-related, and dont really like its addition in either this or Caylins document. It just seems to be stepping over the boundry in terms of what we should be looking for.
I'd like to think about this for a moment. Some have obviously felt the same as you, but many have also supported this, especially when thinking of roguish characters in other stories or movies. It is also very practical for smugglers to have resistance or an awarenessto things that could be used to bump them off.
One way or another, I guess I'd like to see more defenses for the smuggler that is not offensive in nature.
One thing I suppose I was toying with was instead of 'Resilience' was 'Bravado' which would focus on allowing smugglers more easily resist or almost instantly recover from intimidating or delaying attacks.
If nothing else, we saw plent of that from Han Solo.'She'll hold together!!... hear me baby? Hold together...'
Just playing with alternatives or additions.