Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband/Missions PART 2 (Solutions)
Message Edited by LegionSylrus on 06-22-2004 09:11 AM
I'm sorry I'm a bit baffled by this one.
GreenMarine wrote:What about normal players scanned with illegal items? For now, it seems reasonable that we don't add visibility for normal players. That's too much to ask of the player base as a whole. Later, we could possibly add a level of illegality above Highly Illegal (say, Military Class) that gains visibility. It seems wise to leave this area open for future discuss, but not include it in a revamp.
I take it "normal" players are neutral players? So legality and visibility is only going to affect factioned players if I understand this right?
I'd just like to point out that there'd better be some major improvements to the GCW experience in the GCW revamp if every time new features are introduced neutrals can just go by their business.
Neutrals and faction players do the same stuff in this game. We compete for the same things and if everything that has the potential to be even the slightest inconvenience is always kept away from neutrals I, for one, and I think a lot of other players to are going to reconsider our investment in the GCW. Useless faction perks and Leia's Themepark are not enough to justify not just going neutral and get all the content and none of the hassle. I mean, neutral Smugglers will get to play with all the cool revamp features as well, won't they?
I certainly want to see the Smuggler revamp happen, as cool and as fast as possible but be careful how much pressure you add to factioned players while keeping the neutrals safe. Especially when there are no tangible rewards for not just dropping the GCW.
Oku Kee'lus I disagree. The Star Wars galaxy in the OT makes clear that the Empire rules with somewhat of an iron fist. I'd also like the think that the Rebellion has more to worry about (like, oh, say survival?) than wasting their limited resources on spice scans. That's what made the defeat of the Empire so great in the movies. It was a band of rebels who miraculousy defeated the Imperial juggernaut. I think it waters down everything when the rebels are put on the same footing as Imperials. As for the Naboo and Corsec security forces, they may do scans, but wouldn't they still be operating under Imperial rule? So therefore, shouldn't they too be Imperial?
GreenMarine wrote:
It seems that we should make more factions other than Imperial scan. Why can't the Rebels scan in a Rebel controlled territory? They aren't going to like spice abuse much either. Rebel commanders could then have some immunity from scans in their home regions. Naboo's Royal Security Force (a neutral faction) might also scan and have their own forces to deal with violators.
Summary 1: The key argument was over the impact of "visibility" punishments for ripping off suppliers or failing smuggling missions. There is a portion of the player base that desires PvP and a portion that does not. The main issue is the possibility of "involuntary PvP" or a player gaining a bounty who wants to be a smuggler but not participate in PvP.
Solution: The solution I like most is to have the mission suppliers offer two types of mission for each skill level. The punishments for failing or cheating a mission then become:
- Normal Mission: You lose NPC faction with that supplier. You lose a small amount of GCW faction if the supplier belongs toa faction. You could possibly be ambushed by thugs from that supplier.
- CriticalMission: Harsher versions of the above + you gain visibility.
The rewards for critical missions would be somewhat higher than normal missions. Also, some types of illegal cargo would only be available via critical missions. The RISK is possible PvP as well as other penalties. The REWARD is rare components (if you cheat the supplier) or better cash.
What about normal players scanned with illegal items? For now, it seems reasonable that we don't add visibility for normal players. That's too much to ask of the player base as a whole. Later, we could possibly add a level of illegality above Highly Illegal (say, Military Class) that gains visibility. It seems wise to leave this area open for future discuss, but not include it in a revamp.
Summary 2: The second major issue revolved around the punishments for being caught with contraband:
- Some players feel that dying isn't enough of a punishment.
- Some players recommended a faction hit.
- Some players feel that storm troopers are too weak.
- Players don't like that only storm troopers scan.
Solution: The solution obviously has several parts. We need to discuss more what the punishments should be. There are a few types of punishment that we can draw from:
- Loss of GCW faction.
- Loss of NPC faction.
- Combat & risk of death.
- Confiscation of the illegal goods.
Solution to the concern of normal players getting visibility or not:
If you make it where Smugglers can gain rarer components by doing high Risk missions, make it where these components allow Smugglers to make rarer spices and a better form of molecular clamps which become High Risk items that any player caught withgives themvisibility. This gives players the choice on whether they take the chance of using the Higher Risk Smuggler items and chance gaining visibilities and being put on a BH terminal or use just the normal stuff that only leads to NPC faction lost and being attacked by NPCs.
The componentswould be used to make better spices then you can normally make with any combination of resources and experimenting on the spice and make a clamp that gives a Smuggler the choice of either slicing a weapon for damage or speed and armor for either encumb or higher resist. So the community would be able to go to a Smuggler and have a choice, do I buy the uber spice or normal spice/ask for a normal sliceor ask for a certain type of slice and because of the decision would they not have to be worried about a BH or have to always look over their back.
Remember when you think of a Smuggler and Star Wars, you think of Solo and how he was being hunted by BHs over A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back. Besides whats the point of trying to be a smuggler when there is no real Smuggling and no threats of stealing and no threats of real BHs.
GreenMarine wrote:
See this link for part 1:
Summary 1: The key argument was over the impact of "visibility" punishments for ripping off suppliers or failing smuggling missions. There is a portion of the player base that desires PvP and a portion that does not. The main issue is the possibility of "involuntary PvP" or a player gaining a bounty who wants to be a smuggler but not participate in PvP.
Solution: The solution I like most is to have the mission suppliers offer two types of mission for each skill level. The punishments for failing or cheating a mission then become:
- Normal Mission: You lose NPC faction with that supplier. You lose a small amount of GCW faction if the supplier belongs toa faction. You could possibly be ambushed by thugs from that supplier.
- CriticalMission: Harsher versions of the above + you gain visibility.
The rewards for critical missions would be somewhat higher than normal missions. Also, some types of illegal cargo would only be available via critical missions. The RISK is possible PvP as well as other penalties. The REWARD is rare components (if you cheat the supplier) or better cash. (I wish there was a better way to get rare components than 'cheating the supplier' ... honest smugglers get more repeat business)
What about normal players scanned with illegal items? For now, it seems reasonable that we don't add visibility for normal players. That's too much to ask of the player base as a whole. Later, we could possibly add a level of illegality above Highly Illegal (say, Military Class) that gains visibility. It seems wise to leave this area open for future discuss, but not include it in a revamp.
Summary 2: The second major issue revolved around the punishments for being caught with contraband:
- Some players feel that dying isn't enough of a punishment.
- Some players recommended a faction hit.
- Some players feel that storm troopers are too weak.
- Players don't like that only storm troopers scan.
Solution: The solution obviously has several parts. We need to discuss more what the punishments should be. There are a few types of punishment that we can draw from:
- Loss of GCW faction.
- Loss of NPC faction.
- Combat & risk of death. (There needs to be some method to choose PvP or PvE)
- Confiscation of the illegal goods. (There needs to be some method to get these goods back)
Also ... resources should not be illegal. I used to agree that 'high level resources' could be contraband, but we need to keep in mind that miners (and artisans) that collect resources may not have any combat skills at all ... and if that is the case, then attacking them would be very bad.
One possibility might be to make it so that the scanning NPC isn't the NPC that attacks. (Agree) Instead he "calls for backup" and the backup is relative to the player's level. This brings up the possibility of a group of players using a low level smuggler to spawn lower level faction targets. Thesolution to stopping faction farming of scan spawned NPCs is to prevent them from giving GCW faction. There are many other legitimate ways to gain faction. Even if it seems inconsistant, it does make somesense that the Rebels aren't necessarily going to reward a player for killing troopers just doing their job.
This also means that high level smugglers would be dealing with security forces tougher than your average Stormtrooper. Is it possible if there is an NPC bounty placed ... that it determines if the Smuggler is buffed? If so, do we want that as an option?
It seems that we should make more factions other than Imperial scan. Why can't the Rebels scan in a Rebel controlled territory? They aren't going to like spice abuse much either. Rebel commanders could then have some immunity from scans in their home regions. Naboo's Royal Security Force (a neutral faction) might also scan and have their own forces to deal with violators.
In the Han Solo Trilogy, although they do discuss that the Rebels don't look kindly upon selling Spice, they do also comment 'if they don't know where the money came from...' To me this says that some are willing to look the other way if it is a benefit to the Rebellion as an end result.
Also ... if we will be able to take people off of BH terminals ... how about this idea:
Those members that participate in a base destruction ... if they are actually witnessed by an opposing faction member (Covert or Overt within say 10m) of doing their task (eg. Slicing Security Terminal) ... then they get a Player Bounty ... the fact that they are overt to do this task is consenting to PvP & the 'report' to the senior members of the Rebel Alliance or Empire could logically result in Mon Mothma or the Emperor being upset and placing a bounty on the player that aided in taking down the base.
Message Edited by Geevo on 06-22-2004 07:45 AM