Smuggler Archive

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GreenMarine wrote:

Summary 1: The key argument was over the impact of "visibility" punishments for ripping off suppliers or failing smuggling missions. There is a portion of the player base that desires PvP and a portion that does not. The main issue is the possibility of "involuntary PvP" or a player gaining a bounty who wants to be a smuggler but not participate in PvP.

Solution: The solution I like most is to have the mission suppliers offer two types of mission for each skill level. The punishments for failing or cheating a mission then become:

• Normal Mission: You lose NPC faction with that supplier. You lose a small amount of GCW faction if the supplier belongs toa faction. You could possibly be ambushed by thugs from that supplier.


• CriticalMission: Harsher versions of the above + you gain visibility.

The rewards for critical missions would be somewhat higher than normal missions. Also, some types of illegal cargo would only be available via critical missions. The RISK is possible PvP as well as other penalties. The REWARD is rare components (if you cheat the supplier) or better cash.

What about normal players scanned with illegal items? For now, it seems reasonable that we don't add visibility for normal players. That's too much to ask of the player base as a whole. Later, we could possibly add a level of illegality above Highly Illegal (say, Military Class) that gains visibility. It seems wise to leave this area open for future discuss, but not include it in a revamp.

Summary 2: The second major issue revolved around the punishments for being caught with contraband:

1. Some players feel that dying isn't enough of a punishment.


2. Some players recommended a faction hit.


3. Some players feel that storm troopers are too weak.


4. Players don't like that only storm troopers scan.

Solution: The solution obviously has several parts. We need to discuss more what the punishments should be. There are a few types of punishment that we can draw from:

• Loss of GCW faction.


• Loss of NPC faction.


• Combat & risk of death.


• Confiscation of the illegal goods.

One possibility might be to make it so that the scanning NPC isn't the NPC that attacks. Instead he "calls for backup" and the backup is relative to the player's level. This brings up the possibility of a group of players using a low level smuggler to spawn lower level faction targets. Thesolution to stopping faction farming of scan spawned NPCs is to prevent them from giving GCW faction. There are many other legitimate ways to gain faction. Even if it seems inconsistant, it does make somesense that the Rebels aren't necessarily going to reward a player for killing troopers just doing their job.

This also means that high level smugglers would be dealing with security forces tougher than your average Stormtrooper.

It seems that we should make more factions other than Imperial scan. Why can't the Rebels scan in a Rebel controlled territory? They aren't going to like spice abuse much either. Rebel commanders could then have some immunity from scans in their home regions. Naboo's Royal Security Force (a neutral faction) might also scan and have their own forces to deal with violators.

Summary 3: The third major issue was that smugglers are worried that increased punishments for using illegal items, like spices and sliced gear, will cause a depression in their markets.

Solution: Actually, I disagree with this premise. I don't think there will be a market depression. On the contrary, if I do my job right, there will be a market increase. If spices become reasonably competitive with chef food, or complement chef food in some way, more players will buy them. Similarly, we should be able to modify slicing but also retain its value.

This is an issue I need to think about more before I develop a complete opinion.

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At this point, we know the arguments from every side in the debate. There have been enough posts for us to understand the views involved. In this thread, let's talk about possible solutions and compromises. Instead of perpetuating the debate on PvP vs. PvE, look for ways that the two views can be reconciled. This is the next key in effective game design for massively multiplayer games.

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Summary 1: Will smuggler get ability to get past scans or will it just be fights if you don't manage to run away? After all, smuggling is "sneaking" past controlls.

Summary 2: If smuggler get hit harder Jedi bloody well get perma death and BH loses BH profession (ability to get BH missions)when they fail. There is no reason that the number one wimp profession should get hit hardest as usual.

Summary 3: Spice will not need to beresonablycompetitiv with chef food, it need to be far supirior to chef food. If you can choose between something that is legal and as effective as something that is illigal, and both are just as effective, you use the legal stuff.

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Phacider wrote:

I don't know if this has been suggested for visibility on the BH terminals, but if you have visibility against you from a particular faction (say Jabba much like Han Solo did). You have the opportunity of paying back that faction in money for removing visibility (much like Han was trying to do). This way it would follow the movies a bit closer, and people that don't want PVP have an opportunity to not engage in it. What do you think?

Phasider

Master Smuggler

Wanderhome

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Good idea here, if i get in trouble with Lady Valerian i have to go and see her in person to make it up to her or if it Jabba i have to go and see him.

It would be good if they gave you a harder mission to do in order to make up with them and clear the bounty on your head.

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Saarek wrote:

I'm all for a challenge and I like the idea of PC Bounty Hunters being sent after us. However, I dont know if anyone else thought about this...

But if that will be the case, I sure as heck hope we get a little better armor than Recon armor... after all, we are pistol specialists not Force-Weilding Weenies with glowing sticks.

But that's just my observation.

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hehe that about summs up my feelings as well. but has it been mentioned for people like myself who are both master smuggler and master BH can see a problem there grabing your own wission if ya dont feel like being hunter but maybe this has already been brought up

Noopor

Master Smuggler

Master Bounty Hunter

Scoundrel

Message Edited by gassygunslinger on 05-21-2005 10:55 AM

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GreenMarine wrote:

See this link for part 1:

Summary 1: The key argument was over the impact of "visibility" punishments for ripping off suppliers or failing smuggling missions. There is a portion of the player base that desires PvP and a portion that does not. The main issue is the possibility of "involuntary PvP" or a player gaining a bounty who wants to be a smuggler but not participate in PvP.

Solution: The solution I like most is to have the mission suppliers offer two types of mission for each skill level. The punishments for failing or cheating a mission then become:

• Normal Mission: You lose NPC faction with that supplier. You lose a small amount of GCW faction if the supplier belongs toa faction. You could possibly be ambushed by thugs from that supplier.


• CriticalMission: Harsher versions of the above + you gain visibility.

The rewards for critical missions would be somewhat higher than normal missions. Also, some types of illegal cargo would only be available via critical missions. The RISK is possible PvP as well as other penalties. The REWARD is rare components (if you cheat the supplier) or better cash.

What about normal players scanned with illegal items? For now, it seems reasonable that we don't add visibility for normal players. That's too much to ask of the player base as a whole. Later, we could possibly add a level of illegality above Highly Illegal (say, Military Class) that gains visibility. It seems wise to leave this area open for future discuss, but not include it in a revamp.

I'm ambivilent about the idea of two levels of missions. I'd like to see all smuggling missions being subject to the penalty - if you don't like it, don't take the mission. Perhaps visibility is the key. I don't knowhow or exactly what you mean by it, but: taking lots of high visibility missions would lead to good street cred and therefore offers of more profitable and even higher visibility jobs. It would also eventually draw notice from the law, and the pawns of crime bosses. I'd like to see all missions have visibility (some negative) ratings, and a smuggler would have to manage his or her visibility to avoid PvP. If you get greedy or stupid or both, you get a PvP BH on you, as a result of your own actions. If you don't want the PvP, manage your visibility.

Summary 2: The second major issue revolved around the punishments for being caught with contraband:

1. Some players feel that dying isn't enough of a punishment.


2. Some players recommended a faction hit.


3. Some players feel that storm troopers are too weak.


4. Players don't like that only storm troopers scan.

Solution: The solution obviously has several parts. We need to discuss more what the punishments should be. There are a few types of punishment that we can draw from:

• Loss of GCW faction.


• Loss of NPC faction.


• Combat & risk of death.


• Confiscation of the illegal goods.

One possibility might be to make it so that the scanning NPC isn't the NPC that attacks. Instead he "calls for backup" and the backup is relative to the player's level. This brings up the possibility of a group of players using a low level smuggler to spawn lower level faction targets. Thesolution to stopping faction farming of scan spawned NPCs is to prevent them from giving GCW faction. There are many other legitimate ways to gain faction. Even if it seems inconsistant, it does make somesense that the Rebels aren't necessarily going to reward a player for killing troopers just doing their job.

This also means that high level smugglers would be dealing with security forces tougher than your average Stormtrooper.

It seems that we should make more factions other than Imperial scan. Why can't the Rebels scan in a Rebel controlled territory? They aren't going to like spice abuse much either. Rebel commanders could then have some immunity from scans in their home regions. Naboo's Royal Security Force (a neutral faction) might also scan and have their own forces to deal with violators.

I agree that all security forces should scan. Those that you are allied (good faction standing) with, might turn a blind eye more often. Scan results should depend on the items you are carrying ranging from combat and cloning in a detention center (if you get killed), through confiscation, to a fine. GCW faction should only be effected if you are, for example, caught smuggling death star plans.

Summary 3: The third major issue was that smugglers are worried that increased punishments for using illegal items, like spices and sliced gear, will cause a depression in their markets.

Solution: Actually, I disagree with this premise. I don't think there will be a market depression. On the contrary, if I do my job right, there will be a market increase. If spices become reasonably competitive with chef food, or complement chef food in some way, more players will buy them. Similarly, we should be able to modify slicing but also retain its value.

This is an issue I need to think about more before I develop a complete opinion.

An idea, not thought through - slicing effects three stats, effectivness (damage dealt or absorbed), useability (speed or encumberance) and quaility (how obvious the slice is.) A really high quality slice (or spice for that matter - ingredients?) can reduce the chance of detection, of course this would have to be traded off against the other two stats.

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GreenMarine wrote: Wow, it looks like things are a lot more cooled down than last week Tomorrow let's start a conversation on the underworld skill tree. I think based on the conversations we've had in these first two giant threads, I can come up with a compromise system. But let's worry about hammering out more specific details later (we have a lot of time).

06-29-2004 01:25 PM

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gassygunslinger wrote:
K... You guys know theres a MUCH more updated version of all this in the In Concept forums that tells about how they will code smuggling missions and such?

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