Smuggler Archive
Thread: Community Letter to SOE.
yimaz
Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:30 am
#53
TsN-Wizzer wrote:
Did someone try and 1 star this Post?
Un-Acceptable
It was an E-bay Jedi I'm sure of it.
SBRD0C
Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:40 am
#54
/sign
*raises a glass*
It occurs to me that if the revamp had come when promised... alot of my old smuggling friends would still be here...
/smuggling since day 1(or at least working on the pre-reqs 
)
)Emitt 'Doc' Brown
CEO Interplanetary Shipping Co. (Crystal Hollow, Dantooine
Captain of the transport 'Blue Star'
Message Edited by SBRD0C on 11-18-2004 06:41 AM
yimaz
Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:03 am
#55
Monthigos wrote:
I won't sign your petition because I believe it just gets people angry, and then they do things like hijack threads which I find highly annoying. That and I don't think SOE responds to either tactic. - I agree and this letter is more of a "do you hear us" type of thing, we dont expect or want the dev's to push other stuff back and force a re-vamp we just want them to know we are over all the stalls and over all lack of communication SOE's CS is horrible. Oh and for the record I hate petitions as well but nothing seems to get them to pay any attention to the client base and that needs to change.
However! I'm rooting for you guys. I hope you find a method that works to get SOE to dedicate time to the Smuggler profession. It has so much potential its not even funny. - /bow
Solo4114
Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:38 am
#57
For what it's worth, /sign.
But, I'm someone who cancelled my account for precisely the reasons listed above. I think you guys should try this one last tactic and then just quit. Seriously. Stop paying these people to piss you off. It just isn't worth it.
My prediction:
1.) This will fall on deaf ears and no response will ever occur.
or
2.) This will send SOE into damage control mode. At this point, they'll send Tyrant, Tiggs, GM, or maybe even TH to come in here and say "We haven't forgotten about smugglers. We still plan on doing the revamp, but you have to understand that this game is on such a large scale. It's never been done before and there's a lot of stuff we need to get to first before we can get to you. As we get closer to the revamp, we promise we'll be in close communication with Wes, but until then, we need to focus our energies elsewhere. Thanks for being patient. We know this is frustrating, but please just give us a little longer."
And you know what my response to that would be?
You've been saying that same friggin' line for the past year and a half. It sounds like a broken record now, and no one believes a damn thing you guys say anymore. Why? Because a.) actions speak louder than words and you guys have been mute in your actions, and b.) go read EN's history thread. You have no credibility left anymore. None. And you've got no one to blame but yourselves.
Oh, and on the point about "Nothing of this scope has ever been attempted before", has it ever occurred to you that perhaps there was a good REASON why this hadn't been done? Like, maybe no development team COULD do justice to a game of this scope? That's beside the point because we can't put the toothpaste back in the tube anymore, but whoever does SWG II ought to keep this in mind. Huge sprawling games that are everything to everyone are a pipe dream, as has clearly been proven by the tortured history of THIS game, which now reads as a manual of how NOT to do it, at least in terms of quality product. Although given how the customers have been treated, one gets the sense that no one at SOE cares about quality product or customer relations, and is entirely concerned with the bottom line. Keep stroking us so we keep paying the monthly fee, support the most "popular" professions (Jedi) even if they have no basis in the underlying license (and given the time period this game's supposed to take place in, they don't), and ignore everything else in pursuit of good quarterly earnings.
Now, here's another thought. Let's say someone DOES respond to this. What do you think will happen? What will it really accomplish? SOE will send someone down to say "Yes, we hear you." Some of the community will be placated by this and it'll buy SOE another two months of relative calm, while some of the community will be fed up and quit anyway. After two months, the same cycle will start again. Don't believe me? Again, go read EN's history thread. In between all those dev posts are posts by THIS community which start off as "Thanks for taking the time to talk to us. We really just want to be heard and have things move along. We just want a real dialogue with you guys, and we know you've got a lot on your plate, etc., etc., etc." This sentiment gradually erodes into "The devs have ignored us YET AGAIN!! I'm planning on [insert act to express one's dissatisfaction here] in response!" Which leads to the obligatory dev post, which resets the clock. Alternatively, the devs ask you to go through yet another list-making session where you outline all the problems, hash out all sorts of ideas for how to make contraband work, and basically jump through the same hoops you've been jumping through for a year and a half. Top 5, top 10, Smuggler Issue Report, Revamp Plan, whatever. It's all just busy work to keep your minds off the fact that they're ignoring you still.
While I respect SOETyrant's agenda, I view it largely like the Clinton Healthcare plan. Some of you may be too young to remember this, but when Bill Clinton was first elected in 1992, his big new strategy was to totally revamp the healthcare system in this country. The goal was to make healthcare affordable and accessible to everyone, essentially creating universal healthcare, but with the goal of providing better care than Canada does (or so it was said). What resulted was months and months of talk and an eventual shrugging of the shoulders and accepting that it just wouldn't work. But it had great underlying goals and intentions. That's how I view SOETyrant's agenda. It's laudable in its intentions. If it works out, it'll probably be a huge success story. But it just won't happen. This game is a freight train that cannot be stopped and cannot change direction, and by the way has an engine that never works completely and is always on the verge of blowing up. Tyrant has to a.) fix the engine, b.) get ahead of the train, c.) lay track while the train is moving to divert it, and d.) finally divert the train onto a safer path. I just don't see it happening.
So, while I support this effort, I can't help but feel that it's entirely futile and is really just a form of group primal scream directed at SOE, which will accomplish about as much as screaming at a mountain in the hopes of knocking it down. Best of luck, but I'm telling you, the cancel button gets your message across a LOT better than petitions like this and will ultimately have much more of an effect. Why? Because since SOE only cares about the bottom line, you're HURTING their bottom line. And THAT, my friends, feels VERY good indeed.
yimaz
Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:46 am
#58
Solo4114 wrote:
For what it's worth, /sign.
But, I'm someone who cancelled my account for precisely the reasons listed above. I think you guys should try this one last tactic and then just quit. Seriously. Stop paying these people to piss you off. It just isn't worth it.
My prediction:
1.) This will fall on deaf ears and no response will ever occur.
or
2.) This will send SOE into damage control mode. At this point, they'll send Tyrant, Tiggs, GM, or maybe even TH to come in here and say "We haven't forgotten about smugglers. We still plan on doing the revamp, but you have to understand that this game is on such a large scale. It's never been done before and there's a lot of stuff we need to get to first before we can get to you. As we get closer to the revamp, we promise we'll be in close communication with Wes, but until then, we need to focus our energies elsewhere. Thanks for being patient. We know this is frustrating, but please just give us a little longer."
And you know what my response to that would be?
You've been saying that same friggin' line for the past year and a half. It sounds like a broken record now, and no one believes a damn thing you guys say anymore. Why? Because a.) actions speak louder than words and you guys have been mute in your actions, and b.) go read EN's history thread. You have no credibility left anymore. None. And you've got no one to blame but yourselves.
Oh, and on the point about "Nothing of this scope has ever been attempted before", has it ever occurred to you that perhaps there was a good REASON why this hadn't been done? Like, maybe no development team COULD do justice to a game of this scope? That's beside the point because we can't put the toothpaste back in the tube anymore, but whoever does SWG II ought to keep this in mind. Huge sprawling games that are everything to everyone are a pipe dream, as has clearly been proven by the tortured history of THIS game, which now reads as a manual of how NOT to do it, at least in terms of quality product. Although given how the customers have been treated, one gets the sense that no one at SOE cares about quality product or customer relations, and is entirely concerned with the bottom line. Keep stroking us so we keep paying the monthly fee, support the most "popular" professions (Jedi) even if they have no basis in the underlying license (and given the time period this game's supposed to take place in, they don't), and ignore everything else in pursuit of good quarterly earnings.
Now, here's another thought. Let's say someone DOES respond to this. What do you think will happen? What will it really accomplish? SOE will send someone down to say "Yes, we hear you." Some of the community will be placated by this and it'll buy SOE another two months of relative calm, while some of the community will be fed up and quit anyway. After two months, the same cycle will start again. Don't believe me? Again, go read EN's history thread. In between all those dev posts are posts by THIS community which start off as "Thanks for taking the time to talk to us. We really just want to be heard and have things move along. We just want a real dialogue with you guys, and we know you've got a lot on your plate, etc., etc., etc." This sentiment gradually erodes into "The devs have ignored us YET AGAIN!! I'm planning on [insert act to express one's dissatisfaction here] in response!" Which leads to the obligatory dev post, which resets the clock. Alternatively, the devs ask you to go through yet another list-making session where you outline all the problems, hash out all sorts of ideas for how to make contraband work, and basically jump through the same hoops you've been jumping through for a year and a half. Top 5, top 10, Smuggler Issue Report, Revamp Plan, whatever. It's all just busy work to keep your minds off the fact that they're ignoring you still.
While I respect SOETyrant's agenda, I view it largely like the Clinton Healthcare plan. Some of you may be too young to remember this, but when Bill Clinton was first elected in 1992, his big new strategy was to totally revamp the healthcare system in this country. The goal was to make healthcare affordable and accessible to everyone, essentially creating universal healthcare, but with the goal of providing better care than Canada does (or so it was said). What resulted was months and months of talk and an eventual shrugging of the shoulders and accepting that it just wouldn't work. But it had great underlying goals and intentions. That's how I view SOETyrant's agenda. It's laudable in its intentions. If it works out, it'll probably be a huge success story. But it just won't happen. This game is a freight train that cannot be stopped and cannot change direction, and by the way has an engine that never works completely and is always on the verge of blowing up. Tyrant has to a.) fix the engine, b.) get ahead of the train, c.) lay track while the train is moving to divert it, and d.) finally divert the train onto a safer path. I just don't see it happening.
So, while I support this effort, I can't help but feel that it's entirely futile and is really just a form of group primal scream directed at SOE, which will accomplish about as much as screaming at a mountain in the hopes of knocking it down. Best of luck, but I'm telling you, the cancel button gets your message across a LOT better than petitions like this and will ultimately have much more of an effect. Why? Because since SOE only cares about the bottom line, you're HURTING their bottom line. And THAT, my friends, feels VERY good indeed.
If you dont like something quit? Sorry that is a copout, as for the rest of your post your right I agree 100%. So why bother? Because its a way to vent and a way to flip the bird to SOE. So what if nothing happens at least we said something.......
Solo4114
Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:54 am
#59
It's not a copout, Yimaz. Your profile alone indicates that you registered almost a year ago. You've stuck with this, put up with all the crap, listened to all the lies, etc. You've fought hard.
But I don't get why, if you're that mad, you'd still keep PAYING these guys. I mean, hey, i'm not paying them and I get to post ranting threads to my heart's content. 
And I AM paying another game. So the way I see it, I flipped them the bird in the best way: I took my business elsewhere.
And I AM paying another game. So the way I see it, I flipped them the bird in the best way: I took my business elsewhere. I understand the need for catharsis, but at a certain point you're just shooting yourself in the foot if you keep paying these guys. YOU become the sucker for sticking around when nothing happens, and that's something that I didn't want to do anymore when I left in April. Nothing's changed since then and I didn't think anything would. SOETyrant and Tiggs have come on board while other devs have moved on or taken a back seat, but for all the end result it has, it's like the Who said, man. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
I encourage you guys to go through with this. I just hope you open your eyes to the futility of it and make the decision to make the last, ultimate protest -- quit the game. It's not quitting the fight, though. It's your own knockout blow. It's THE act of flipping the bird. There's better games out there and better ways to spend your money. If you took that $15 per month and put it towards, say, your DVD collection, you could have TONS of movies that would entertain you for hours on end. Instead, you (and I don't mean you specifically, necessarily, just the generic "you") spend it on a game where your chosen activities do little but frustrate you and piss you off. I don't get why someone would pay to be continually frustrated. Hell, if I want that, I'll go to a strip club. At least I'll get a better show.
Jibbrish
Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:55 am
#60
Solo4114 wrote:
While I respect SOETyrant's agenda, I view it largely like the Clinton Healthcare plan. Some of you may be too young to remember this, but when Bill Clinton was first elected in 1992, his big new strategy was to totally revamp the healthcare system in this country. The goal was to make healthcare affordable and accessible to everyone, essentially creating universal healthcare, but with the goal of providing better care than Canada does (or so it was said). What resulted was months and months of talk and an eventual shrugging of the shoulders and accepting that it just wouldn't work. But it had great underlying goals and intentions.
OT: Actually it was killed by Republican filibustering in the senate and a negative PR campaign by health insurance people. Luckily, I'm Canadian and still have health care but it's being attacked by the same monied intrest groups and killed by inches.
I have to agree with your assesment but what can we do? I still like this game and hope for an improvement in attitude and response from the devs. I'm not prepared to quit or throw in the towel just yet but that may time may come. Until then, we need to keep our concerns front and center, even at the risk of sounding like a broken record.
Solo4114
Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:57 am
#61
If you're having fun, great. It's your money, man, spend it how you like. My point is for those who are NOT having fun, why would you keep paying a company to do a crappy job for you?
Jibbrish wrote:
Solo4114 wrote:
While I respect SOETyrant's agenda, I view it largely like the Clinton Healthcare plan. Some of you may be too young to remember this, but when Bill Clinton was first elected in 1992, his big new strategy was to totally revamp the healthcare system in this country. The goal was to make healthcare affordable and accessible to everyone, essentially creating universal healthcare, but with the goal of providing better care than Canada does (or so it was said). What resulted was months and months of talk and an eventual shrugging of the shoulders and accepting that it just wouldn't work. But it had great underlying goals and intentions.
OT: Actually it was killed by Republican filibustering in the senate and a negative PR campaign by health insurance people. Luckily, I'm Canadian and still have health care but it's being attacked by the same monied intrest groups and killed by inches.
I have to agree with your assesment but what can we do? I still like this game and hope for an improvement in attitude and response from the devs. I'm not prepared to quit or throw in the towel just yet but that may time may come. Until then, we need to keep our concerns front and center, even at the risk of sounding like a broken record.
yimaz
Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:06 am
#62
Solo4114 wrote:
If you're having fun, great. It's your money, man, spend it how you like. My point is for those who are NOT having fun, why would you keep paying a company to do a crappy job for you?
Jibbrish wrote:
Solo4114 wrote:
While I respect SOETyrant's agenda, I view it largely like the Clinton Healthcare plan. Some of you may be too young to remember this, but when Bill Clinton was first elected in 1992, his big new strategy was to totally revamp the healthcare system in this country. The goal was to make healthcare affordable and accessible to everyone, essentially creating universal healthcare, but with the goal of providing better care than Canada does (or so it was said). What resulted was months and months of talk and an eventual shrugging of the shoulders and accepting that it just wouldn't work. But it had great underlying goals and intentions.
OT: Actually it was killed by Republican filibustering in the senate and a negative PR campaign by health insurance people. Luckily, I'm Canadian and still have health care but it's being attacked by the same monied intrest groups and killed by inches.
I have to agree with your assesment but what can we do? I still like this game and hope for an improvement in attitude and response from the devs. I'm not prepared to quit or throw in the towel just yet but that may time may come. Until then, we need to keep our concerns front and center, even at the risk of sounding like a broken record.
I have fun with my friends in-gameand my combat temp, I have fun in space. I'm way pissed about how they treat the Smuggler profession and the client base. The game is not bad its the broken for 17 months professions lack of communicationand lies that have me mad. I bought this game to be a smuggler I still play the game because of my friends. I get your point solo and agree if a lot of people left they might do something, but untill i get word that everyone is out im not going to leave because me alone leaving wont do a damn thing.
Message Edited by yimaz on 11-18-2004 12:28 PM
Solo4114
Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:08 am
#63
Fair enough but couldn't you and your friends play a different game that you all enjoyed more, made by a company that treats its customer base better, and in a game that functions fully from day 1?
yimaz
Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:10 am
#65
Solo4114 wrote:
Fair enough but couldn't you and your friends play a different game that you all enjoyed more, made by a company that treats its customer base better, and in a game that functions fully from day 1?
dont like faries and elves I like Sci-fi its really that simple.