Smuggler Archive

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ana-mo-cara wrote:

Still havent heard any of you say why hunting a player that can play dead and never be killed is a real cracker jack thing for a BH to do. - OMG last time we did this I PWN'd you with an older post I had to take a 1/2 hour to dig up (remember, Im sure you dont)so I'm not going to PWN you yet again. Ask anyone here about my point of view on the suject Ive been done with you for a few days now.

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Message Edited by yimaz on 01-18-2005 03:59 PM

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ana-mo-cara wrote:

Nope great minds are often ridiculed persevereing through it really makes one great.

Great minds can spell correctly though, and that's one place you don't dare to tread.

Nice one starring yim I guess we know who the one star troll is now.

Does your star rating mean that much to you? Seriously, I thought a great mind like yours would be above all that.

Still havent heard any of you say why hunting a player that can play dead and never be killed is a real cracker jack thing for a BH to do.

And I still haven't seen over 50% of what you type make sense. Go figure.

I would also like to know why players think they should get a big gigantic huge payout for doing glorified delivery missions unless there is actual risk involved.

And I'd really like to know why you want Weaponsmiths to have the ability to slice, and Smugglers to cost less skill points,but you seemed to have dodged those questions pretty well.

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ana-mo-cara wrote:

Yeah figures none of you got a answer to why a bh would waste the time hunting someone who play dead after shot number 1. I do not blame you its not like there really is a good answer to this one.

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Message Edited by Thochkored on 01-19-2005 11:44 AM

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ana-mo-cara wrote:

Okay let me get this straight .........

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Most if not all of your continual criticisms have been answered in posts either directed at you or in the initial drafting of these original idea's. Go read them.....

I think the problem here is you look at Smuggler as an addition to your profession and most of us look at Smuggler AS OUR PROFESSION.

Message Edited by yimaz on 01-20-2005 01:29 PM

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ana-mo-cara wrote:

Okay let me get this straight you want smugglers running around doing missions which if they fail the BH gets to hunt them. Okay lets look at this logically.

Ok, let's.

You only want to have a BH mission kick in when you either fail a mission or rob your client. The question here is will this item you can steal be something better then you or another player can craft. How would that be fair you would simply put the item in the bank and get the BH to waste you then sell the item for uber credits at auction. If It isnt as good as what a player can make then why would you keep it. How is a delivery mission failable anyway. The point of high level missions in the game is that you can just beat them thats why they have different levels. Will these missions be generic what a master smuggler should be able to handle. If that is the case a few boxes of ranged support and you will never lose.

First off, the item would be unique in that PCs couldn't craft it. Something like Glitterstim isn't craftable by us, but it could be a nice spice to get on a smuggling mission. You're saying that a smuggler could just put the item in the bank...well why can't the item be non-transferable as long as the mission is not completed? I think smuggling missions should be timed. You don't make it to a spot within the time limit, your boss thinks you're dirty and calls up a BH friend to hunt you.

Now, you can cry foul by saying that a smuggler could just delete the item. Well, first off, if the item leaves your inventory before you finish your mission (you should have two different options for the end of your mission: taking a cut of the spice to sell, or taking money)it's deleted. Period.

Why would you actually want to run the missions on the ground, because its more fun and dynamic. On a speeder the chances of you getting touched at all are near 0. You just point in the direction and hit the num lock key. Autorun for three minutes and your their. Whereas if you run by foot you have a chance for creature encounters its more dangerous and thus more rewarding. The point of Teiring a mission. Is that when you get to say teir 15 to 16 that mission could be worth like 30000 credits. So you have a huge credit reward for doing the mission, but no reward for abuseing the system. If you can go get a item from jabba and walk out and hit a key that says I keep the item. They would never make it so you could 'hit a key and keep the item.' What are you, daft? You can call a bh pal have him draw your mission come to you kill you for a sick reward, and you get to keep the item plus you save travel time to the local cloner. Rinse and repeat. Suddenly you got the easy money system in play. Do you actually want to come on one day to hear someone say I am a master smuggler me and my bh friend go grab missions he kills me we split the reward.

Once again, this problem could be easily avoided if the item was destroyed if you were killed by a BH. I hate Jedi, but I think XP loss is the best thing on their system. Smugglers should have something to lose too, and in this case, it would be the item. You could get a system messagelike, "During battle, the case where your spice was held broke, and blew away in the wind." Game over. You can split those credits with your buddy all you like, but you'll never hold high level or high risk spice to sell.

About these I would be an honorable smuggler stuff. Your wrong most smugglers would play dead on shot number one. They just would, and a BH is not going to blow 100k worth of credits and time hunting through smugglers till he finds one that will actually stand up and fight. Thats not fun unless your into self mutilation. Man that was so fun I spent 45 minutes hunting this guy down, and the best part one shot and he FD. My god that was a blast. That was fun. The only solution to this is either you give bhs a move to break FD. Which would really cripple the smuggler profession. With there being as many bhs in game as there are, or allow FD to be broken in some way specific to the mission.

This is why FD needs to be either:

A. Sprinkled throughout the Smuggler trees so that it has a chance of failure, instead of being one solid move; or

B. Given a counterpart in the BH skill tree that allows for a roll to detect FD. You could also sprinkle this skill throughout the BH trees and make it dynamic. It would be equally exciting because you have a smuggler using FD, then a BH hitting a roll to detect it. If the BH succeeds, fight goes on and Smuggler must get up. If not, BH loses TEF and must leave the planet and return or some other re-flagging action.

I fail to see the good in duplicateing the same greifing system BHs and Jedi have going. P.S. two hour foot missions arent that bad if you get paid well to do them. One of those first MBHs I will say one thing for them you get a real fealing of accomplishment. We often say things like jedi hunting is cat and mouse but it really isnt. A jedi gets noticed the bh sends out the droids and goes to where the jedi is grinding.

Somehow smugglers and BHs stuck in a battle of whits is quite appealing to me from both viewpoints. Plus if it was like in a quest format and the bounty is lifted on completion the result is you actually have a winner.

First off, I'm pretty sure in a battle of "whits" you'd lose.

Second, how in god's name do you plan on executing this battle? Select chat options, like the Hero of Tatooine Quest with the BH and Smugglers?

Once again like I said earlier the suggestions on the weaponsmith forum were intended not to be biased. Some would advantage smuggler some would advantage weaponsmith. None of them would advantage me. If weaponsmith got a sliceing bonus then I would lose my master smuggler bonus. If sliced weapons were unvendorable then I would lose my sliced weapon selling advantage. I can hardly see how any of these things are actually self serveing to me.

It's self-serving because either way, you win, because you hold toons in both professions. Make enough sense?

Anyway, your logic is severely flawed because you lack the inability to see from any other point of view except yours. I've never been a BH, but I can still find a way to make smuggling work that is fun and exciting for both professions.

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Nicolas_Frost wrote:
Interesting, one of my posts seems to be missing, and it isn't anywhere near as bad as a couple others I've made. Oh well, guess that's more of the piss and vinegar Nick mentioned.

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ana-mo-cara wrote:

I see I am going to have to go over the fine detail of my proposal its neither a quest like you get now or a mission. Its a chain of missions.

Lets say that the smuggler mission is a chain of missions yes they would be time sensitive just not terribly time sensitive. You do not want a person getting lag locked or getting stuck in a battle and then he is toast for that. Probabally ten minutes for every thousand meters or so.

The system is set up into legs.

Example.

Mission one take a package from jabba to anchorhead. This is worth 500 credits.

At anchorhead you pick up the next mission to bestine 700 credits you get there make the delivery.

You get a mission to go to mos taike now the reward for this mission is 1000 credits.

From taike you go to mos eisley the reward now is 2000 credits.

From eisley to anchorhead again the reward is now 4000 credits.

From anchorhead to espa 8000 credits.

From espa to wayfar 16000 credits.

So as you see the missions are cumulative. The further on you go the more credits they are worth the farther you go the more they are worth. Eventually you could see a smuggler makeing 50000 credits for the last mission. So while the initial part is tedious the later missions start forking out big rewards. This is where the incentive comes into play. Each leg might get harder or the delivery place might become more dangerous.

The BH on the other hand is also stuck on the legs system. Since trying to off the smuggler at leg 1 or 2 is hardly worth the effort. This will deter smugglers from letting themselves be offed. The real reward for doing the mission comes at the end rather then the beginning for both parties.

Yes, but is the BH stuck on the ground running like the Smuggler is? I guarantee you that for every 1 person that likes this idea of walking everywhere, there are a thousand that hate it. What exactly is the time frame on all this? All the places you mentioned above...walking to and fro from all these places would take upwards of a quarter of a day; not the kind of time people with actual LIVES/JOBS/SIGNIFICANT OTHERShave.

Now here is the dilema for the smuggler how long can I keep this up before a BH catches me and kills me. The BH on the other hand has to decide where he wants to catch the smuggler. If he waits to long the smuggler might get to a dropoff point and exit the mission. If that happens the BH is out any reward whatsoever, but the smuggler will have to start the mission all over again.

Start the mission all over again if they finish the mission? What the hell are you talking about?

So you got a risk takeing system going on. The smuggler can choose to push his luck and make some big bucks, but the longer he pushes his look the more risk he has of getting offed by a BH.

The more legs the smuggler runs the more he makes. The more legs he completes the more the bounty on him gets. So you get a whole new roleplay system going. You have notorious smugglers guys who get their bounties really jacked up. To the point where you might here bhs saying hey there is a smuggler on the boards that is worth 100k. Then you might end up with ten BHs trying to hunt that damned smuggler down.

The penalty could probabally be equal to what the leg you are running is worth. So if your on a 50k leg. Then if you die it costs you 50k. This would make it so that smugglers do not just push it till they die. Since it will negate what the previous leg is worth.

Yeah, ok, but what about the leg before that? And the leg before that? And so on...

This infact makes more sense for a smuggler. A smuggler needs to know when to cut and run. That is how a smuggler survives. Its not just about being a gambler its about knowing the odds against you. The BH actually has to try to know when to make his move. He has to gauge how far he needs to be away from the smuggler to keep him from getting wise, but he also has to know when enough is enough, because at any dropoff the smuggler can just stop it right there and walk away a winner.

So, um, instead of calling it a "chain of missions," and trying to pretend you made that up all by yourself, why don't you just call it "the smuggler equivalent of the pilot structure" and call it a day? This is the same system; as much as you want this to be original and different, it's not. It's a tier-based quest structure. You're saying all these missions get tied together...but where do they end? If they just "end" at the end of each "leg," doesn't that qualify as an individual quest?

In my system you have a real winner, and a real loser. The smuggler loses if he pushes his luck for just one more score. The BH loses if he lets the pot continue to rise and not get the smuggler. The smuggler wins if he knows when to walk away. The BH wins if he knows when to make the effort to get the smuggler.

You no longer have an open ended greifing prone system. You do not have a system where the players can exploit it. The BH will only get marginally over what the smuggler is getting for the next leg, but if the smuggler loses he is basically giveing his dough to the bh. So its not a win win situation. Its a win lose situation which makes it truely high stakes.

Just for your info, we don't have ANY system right now. And where did you see a system suggested that promots griefing and/or exploiting? It was certainly not my system I suggested; however, you're notorious for not reading other peoples' points of view.

You have it takeing place on foot so that you do not have it reduced to safe speeder travel you also avoid it just being a starport exercise. Besides if your up to a sum like fifty k for the mission. Wouldnt running make more sense then speeders anyway. Otherwise you have players makeing millions of credits just traveling with jtl from city to city.

Smuggler NPCs shouldn't be in cities half the time, first off. If they were, they should be in back alleys and such, away from the eyes of the Empire and CorSec/Naboo/etc. And don't you think space comes into play while transporting cargo? Ifa BH decided to attack me in space, how excellent would that be? Once again, the "on foot" idea doesn't work because NO ONE WILL DO IT. And if that's what happened, BHs must also have the 'no speeder' rule whilst they are on the hunt for someone.

I can't believe you...you're the one saying that Smuggler missions shouldn't be glorified delivery missions, but here you are suggesting that very thing. Hypocrite.

Hell this kind of thing even opens up entire story arcs with recurring characters crimelords and so on.

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Message Edited by Nicolas_Frost on 01-20-2005 08:15 PM

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yimaz wrote:

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Nicolas_Frost wrote:
Interesting, one of my posts seems to be missing, and it isn't anywhere near as bad as a couple others I've made. Oh well, guess that's more of the piss and vinegar Nick mentioned.

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The forum Goddess, she's a fickle mistress she is, Arrrrrrrrr.

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ana-mo-cara wrote:

I see I am going to have to go over the fine detail of my....

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