Smuggler Archive
Thread: A BH asking about Feign Death--please don't flame
Ternque01 wrote:
Well JediArashi, I do see a problem with adjusting the roll modifier. If the chance is 10% of succeeding at DF1, that just means a player just has to spam it in their combat log until it works.
I think a more viable solution is to alter FD in PvP situations. Include a more spread out roll factor over the FD skill tree, but apply a timer to the special.
For instance, a Jedi who is suddenly attacked by a BH hits the FD key. This Jedi only has DF1, and therefore has a 10% chance at succeeding. If the Jedi fails, he/she cannot try the special for another 15-30 minutes.
This will keep it from being abused, and we all know that a 10% success rate equals 100% if it is spammed enough... just my two cents. (Which I put in once... with a timer
)
Ok, I can understand that. However, I guess I never thought that FD was a spammable skill. At least I never did it that way. Once you activate it, it "prepares" you to FD then activates (or fails) when your hit. I could be wrong, but I've never viewed it as spammable...at least not in the traditional sense. I think it is fine if after being hit it fails, and you have to do it again, even doing so multiple times your still being hit each time.
It's been so long since I've used it, maybe I've forgotten the intricasies of it.
I am totally against any sort of timer on the skill longer then say... 2 minutes. A lot can happen in 2 minutes. If I'm in the Geo lab in the first hall andhave to FD, I want to be able to use itagain in the later rooms. If I am cruising through Dath and get nailed by a NS on my way toa mission I don't want to have towait 20-30 minutes knowing that I can't use it again going into a potentially tough situation.
It also doesn't make sense for that long of a time. Against the same target maybe, butif in the Dath example above...why would the mobfor my mission6000 meters away not fall for my trickery?? because I used it on a NS?? How does that make sense?
If it was a timer on all NPC's within 100m of the smuggler when they FD, then that would be acceptable...but far too difficult to program I would think (to make the FD be targetand timer specific).
I thinkremoving the skill from bounty missions only would be more acceptable to me,but I have to reread Nic's proposalto really digest it.
JediArashi wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
Well JediArashi, I do see a problem with adjusting the roll modifier. If the chance is 10% of succeeding at DF1, that just means a player just has to spam it in their combat log until it works.
I think a more viable solution is to alter FD in PvP situations. Include a more spread out roll factor over the FD skill tree, but apply a timer to the special.
For instance, a Jedi who is suddenly attacked by a BH hits the FD key. This Jedi only has DF1, and therefore has a 10% chance at succeeding. If the Jedi fails, he/she cannot try the special for another 15-30 minutes.
This will keep it from being abused, and we all know that a 10% success rate equals 100% if it is spammed enough... just my two cents. (Which I put in once... with a timer
Ok, I can understand that. However, I guess I never thought that FD was a spammable skill. At least I never did it that way. Once you activate it, it "prepares" you to FD then activates (or fails) when your hit. I could be wrong, but I've never viewed it as spammable...at least not in the traditional sense. I think it is fine if after being hit it fails, and you have to do it again, even doing so multiple times your still being hit each time.
It's been so long since I've used it, maybe I've forgotten the intricasies of it.
I am totally against any sort of timer on the skill longer then say... 2 minutes. A lot can happen in 2 minutes. If I'm in the Geo lab in the first hall andhave to FD, I want to be able to use itagain in the later rooms. If I am cruising through Dath and get nailed by a NS on my way toa mission I don't want to have towait 20-30 minutes knowing that I can't use it again going into a potentially tough situation.
It also doesn't make sense for that long of a time. Against the same target maybe, butif in the Dath example above...why would the mobfor my mission6000 meters away not fall for my trickery?? because I used it on a NS?? How does that make sense?
If it was a timer on all NPC's within 100m of the smuggler when they FD, then that would be acceptable...but far too difficult to program I would think (to make the FD be targetand timer specific).
I thinkremoving the skill from bounty missions only would be more acceptable to me,but I have to reread Nic's proposalto really digest it.
Ternque mentionned the fact that it should be altered in PVP situations, so this doesn't need to be changed on your examples.
The thing to consider is the case of a large battle, if you fail into feigning, can you retry? i would say "yes" because of the confusion of the battle nobody would notice you tried to feign.
The way to go could be to alter it only on a bounty mission, this way not only would both of you have built a solution, but it could be a viable solution, a fair one for everybody.
JTGAlpha wrote:
I'm sorry, could somone please point me to the post or at least tell me when/where they've heard that the dev's say FD WAS intended for PvP? Because I've always heard (MIST's example being formost) that FD was NOT originally intended for PvP which is why black-barring is not griefing or exploiting because we're kind of gaming the system anyway.
By the way this has NO bearing on whether or not or even how it needs to be fixed. It needs to be fixed no matter what. I have no problem it being used for PvP but right now, in PvP it's not fun for ANYONE. And in PvE it's worthless except as a realllllly long recharge time.
wasn't that JustG at FanFest or even before? i think it's JustG though, but not even sure.
Ternque01 wrote:Well, Nick does have a very good idea re-evalutating it.Instead of a timer put on the use of FD, he institutes consequences for a failed FD attempt. It wouldn't matter if the special could be spammed. Either a player in a bounty situation succeeds on their first try, or they are royally um... screwed.The suggestion to put the timer at 2 minutes would be a bad idea during bounty hunts because Jedi/BH fights can last for a LONG time. 2 minutes is nothing.But as Nick suggests, putting in consequences for failure during a bounty mission will make a non-master smuggler think twice about using it.Nick's suggestion accounts for all but one critical issue - that smuggler bounties will suffer the same fate as jedi bounties in the future. Master smugglers will be able to pull FD out of their rear ends fairly reliably and that would be a real problem. It would be a problem just like we are seeing here.I still think FD has no place in player bounties. Playing dead is the dumbest idea I've ever heard. Ideas that make it easier for smugglers to escape, pull a bike out during combat, or immobilize another player in order to escape are what we are looking for.I for one think that some of the dirty fighting moves in the CU should include incredibly powerful, but increadibly costly (in terms of the future "special pool"). For example, a smuggler could immobilize a single player so he/she can make an escape, but would invest heavily from their special pool. For those not familiar, the devs were talking about having a "special pool" that is used instead of HAM costs for specials. This "special pool" would slowly regenerate so a player can spend more effort into specials in the future. Use of this "special pool" will hopefully add tactical aspects of the game that are now lacking.Anyways, give smuggler incredibly power evasion/escape moves, but make those "one time shots". Make it or break it. If they fail, they are stuck will an empty special pool and only their blaster to save them. That's where the fun is.
I'm guessing you mean me, so I'll reply.
"Master smugglers will be able to pull FD out of their rear ends fairly reliably and that would be a real problem."
Only against the 3000 Bounty Hunter/Master Swordsman template and similar untrue Bounty Hunters. A Master Smuggler against a Master Bounty Hunter would be a coin-toss, 50/50 chance of win or lose. And keep in mind, the Smuggler would be very vulnerable if he loses. Basicly, we're taking a chance of recieving increased damage from attacks when we do this.
I guess I should have stated in there that in the bounty situation, you shouldn't be able to feign death more than once in a single PvP encounter concerning about on your head. I sorta thought that was implied. Now, lets say you fail feign death and decide to cut and run, screw trying to kill the hunter, just get the hell outta dodge. If you successfully escape, the next time the hunter comes after you, you can feign death again. Perhaps this would be a good way for the timer, only for the times when you got bounties on you.
Overt PvP would have no timer, only the bounty sessions, since the hunter gets paid for that.