Smuggler Archive

Thread: Smuggler missions and why we need them?

tralita_tusnami
Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:46 am
#53


wes wrote:


I don't think we're viewing things all that differently. As I said, we agree you need smuggling missions.
That's good to know
I don't see that as a "profession revamp", though. I see that more as "Adding a smuggling mission system so that smugglers can, somehow, smuggle."


Is that how you see it, or is there more to it than that?

I think (at least the way I interpret it and indeed feel) that the desire for Smuggling has two tiers; The first is to have a system not too disimilar to the BH's mission system, allowing Smugglers to actually Smuggle.

The second, which requires the first in order to be developed, is involving others in that Smuggling system, just as the BH mission system has been extended to include Jedi and has the potential to be extended to others. This can take many forms, be it including others in the missions themselves (such as Artisans mining spice/spice ore, Rangers clearing an area for a drop off/landing place, and obviously a whole host of other ideas), or players actually having a need, hopefully desire, for us to Smuggle something for them.

There is a third tier that people would want, but in order to reach that complexity and amount of development required, an Underworld expansion that includes many things not just for Smugglers would be needed.



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QFE



_____________________________________________________
Some aspire to be the best, Thunderheart aspires to be just like me
"I may look like an Ewok, but I'm all Wookie where it counts, baby."

Tralita Tusnami
Bria server
MASTER SMUGLER/BOUNTY HUNTER/PISTOLER
gassygunslinger
Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:46 am
#54






JFreeman wrote:




gassygunslinger wrote:

But could you at least keep us up to date at what you are thinking about adding, even if it isn't definate? If you continue to leave us in the dark, we will continue to feel ignored, and people will continue to quit. Even if you don't add it in, it will still let us know it is being worked on.



We're evaluating the work that has been done toward "revamping the Smuggler profession". This includes enhancing, fixing and updating the things that have already been delivered (Combat skills, the slicing system, spices) as well as evaluating the Smuggling mission system that has not been completed, let alone delivered.

The smuggling system is the more important part of the work that has been done - and we hear you when you say that you'd rather have it than any of the other stuff. It is difficult to prioritize fixes to a system that isn't in-game, over fixes to functionality that is in game. And even with a higher priority, you're still likely to see fixes to the in-game systems before you see anything else.






This wasn't my concern... I'm not talking about devoting all your attention to fixing that non-in-game system... My quote was talking about how you guys aren't letting us know what IS happening... Even if you don't plan to fix whats wrong for a while now, tell us what you have so far. A lot of people got angry at you guys by throwing away what was in the In Concepts and sneaking the new slicing system on Test Center when it was completely different. We had no way of objecting to it. Give us an idea of what you guys have got so far, so we can tell you what we think... Even if none of it is final. The more you just give us hints, the more people will quit. If we feel that what you are planning is disatrous, we will tell you. At least that way you guys have some heads-up that we won't be happy about it, so you can tweak it (using our suggestions) before you have 3 days until the Publish goes live. And once again, I've been left in the dust, and been caught with another one of your posts whilst quelling some fires of people saying that this is the last draw, proof that we will never get smuggling missions (which is completely NOT what you said, and it was already stated that we would have no revamp)... I made sure that wrong ideas don't spread, so you owe me for that one, in defending you...



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silversaber
Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:47 am
#55






JFreeman wrote:




Nezodon wrote:
Lets try and keep it to the questions and make it as constructive as possible so its easier for anyone reading he post to digest so hopefuly we can encourage a red name down to pop in and say something/anything about smuggling and their plans.



I can say that we can't really give any specifics about our plans, other than we plan to stop promising a smuggler revamp that we never seem to get around to delivering.

It's very unlikely we'd ever do a full profession revamp for smugglers anyway. Instead we're focusing on
incremental changes, enhancements, updates.

The Combat Upgrade itself was a change to the Smuggler profession, and the recent slicing changes was another. We're still planning on reviewing the spices: probably not a full fledges "spice revamp", but rather fixes and upgrades to improve the line.

We agree that you need Smuggling Missions. So, you don't need to convince us of that!

In the past, our approach to this has been to design with an eye toward content-driven delivery mechanisms. Now I think we've come to the realization that creating hand-crafted content requires more resources than we can devote to a single profession. So we need a plan-B.

In the same way that Bounty Hunters have a systems-driven source of activity, we've got to look at ways of systemically delivering "smuggler missions" to you.

But I still can't give any details as to when we could deliver this or how it might work.

Enhancing
the Smuggler profession is high on our list of priorities.







So in other words, the smuggler system GM came up with in consultation with the Smuggler community got thrown in the trash because it took too much resources to completefor a single profession.

And now we can look for a watered downPlan-B Smuggler system in which smuggling will be little better than the BH missions that are currently in the game?


Oh man, no wonder GM quit. All that effort and work, down the toilet and only to be replaced by a simplistic, easy to code but boreing as heck Smuggling system.


Oh man, you guys blew it. You blew it in a MAJOR way.


GotBlueMilk
Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:48 am
#56

This is just embarrassing. Two publishes spent fixing droids, at least two fixing Jedi, and now they're saying that it's impossible to focus their attentions on one profession? Since when? They can create the Jedi Village, but they can't come up with smuggling missions?


Smuggling content needs to be a priority. It's one of the major iconic professions in the Star Wars universe, side-by-side with Jedi and Bounty Hunters. If the people responsible for deciding what gets done and what doesn't can't understand that, then all is lost. They don't get the universe, they don't get the fans, and if they can't figure it out soon, they won't be getting our business, either.





GotBlueMilk (-777, -4041)
"I calculated the odds of this succeeding versus the odds I was doing something incredibly stupid... and I went ahead anyway." -- Crow T. Robot

On 9/11/05, Holocron posted: "In plain language, we believe that letting you know of possible changes so that you can affect them, letting you know exactly what is going to change and why, giving you details so you can try out changes in testing and make sure they go smoothly, and making sure that all changes are well-documented is critical to good service."
Grunzer
Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:54 am
#57






JFreeman wrote:





SmugglinZane wrote:


I appreciate you coming, but we still have a problem with how you view things versus how we view things.




I don't think we're viewing things all that differently. As I said, we agree you need smuggling missions.

I don't see that as a "profession revamp", though. I see that more as "Adding a smuggling mission system so that smugglers can, somehow, smuggle."

Is that how you see it, or is there more to it than that?








Fine, save it by putting Smuggler Mission Terminals in and set it up so that if those missions fail, after a certain number, they get put on the BH terminals.. Now incorporate the smuggler components into the system and find a way to give some decent rewards along with the payouts upon mission completion.


From the way I read it, this is basically what you're talking about anyway right? Smuggler Mission terminals?


I think at this point, this actually probably the "top-end" of the scale that we can hope for.



You guys must be really strapped for resources over there. Your Publishes look like EQ's hot fixes, and your hotfixes don't look like anything. I smell some strained relations going on between SOE and LA, and this game is hurting because of it.






Message Edited by Grunzer on 08-12-2005 12:10 PM



CANCELLED

??????????? ?? ????????? ?????? ??? Sony
gassygunslinger
Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:55 am
#58






JFreeman wrote:




gassygunslinger wrote:

But could you at least keep us up to date at what you are thinking about adding, even if it isn't definate? If you continue to leave us in the dark, we will continue to feel ignored, and people will continue to quit. Even if you don't add it in, it will still let us know it is being worked on.



We're evaluating the work that has been done toward "revamping the Smuggler profession". This includes enhancing, fixing and updating the things that have already been delivered (Combat skills, the slicing system, spices) as well as evaluating the Smuggling mission system that has not been completed, let alone delivered.

The smuggling system is the more important part of the work that has been done - and we hear you when you say that you'd rather have it than any of the other stuff. It is difficult to prioritize fixes to a system that isn't in-game, over fixes to functionality that is in game. And even with a higher priority, you're still likely to see fixes to the in-game systems before you see anything else.






Woot! I'm going to be imortalized in the "Smugglers in the SWG History- As written by the Dev's" for that one! ...... Sorry, I get bored in between punching refresh 100 times.



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HOTDOG
Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:05 pm
#59

UUUUUGGGGH!


What IS this?


Collect a spreadsheet of our ideas? This late in the game?


So I can, what? Wait around another year for you to repeat the cycle again?


Greenmarine's thread IS still stickied, right?


I mean, you CAN'T still be at the receiving ideas stage can you?


I like that you are looking at GMs design and trying to simplify it- but honestly- you are farther along than accepting ideas, right?



I just can't see this happening.








TEVIN STARGUNNER | WASODO T'GADIE

Rogue | Desperado | Demolitionist Short | Dark | Handsome

Master Smuggler | Master Bounty Hunter | Commando 0400 | Rebel Capt. Smuggler | Teras Kasi Artist | Unaffiliated
magnum1138
Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:05 pm
#60

OKay this i posted in the before-time.

Before Quest Journals
Before JTL

I Dug it out of my Comp for this occasion, for what it is worth.

SMUGGLER MISSIONS WITH MODIFIED EXISTING GAMEMECHANICS

Now that I have played the Game for some time, I started wondering how to make Smugglers more unique, challenging and hopefully fun, by using and rearranging things that are already in the game in some working form. (with one exception which I haven’t encountered, which sounds easy but might be not, since this is an MMO)
If it’s been said before I apologize (forum search doesn’t work)

1. Simple Smuggler Missions.
What’s needed
-Bountyhunter-like Smuggler-Missionterminals or NPCs Missions
-the Mission given, is just too deliver an (contraband) item as in normal missions, but from a start NPC on another same planet . So some Traveling is required. (this is the thing I haven’t encountered yet, but this CAN’T be a problem, or is it?)
-The Moment the smuggler picks the item up he gets flagged or huge temporary factionloss for every Policelike NPC (corsec etc.) in the civilized Galaxy, so the PC goes KOS (or incapacitate which I would like better) Storyreason: the forces get a heads up from someone to be on the lookout. If caught the Smuggler loses the item from the inventory and if that is not possible is killed and the Mission fails, like in static Missions.
Alert states for the NPCs might give the Smuggler some warning to employ abilities, for example a scoutlike camouflage skill only for NPCs. Balancing required (besides amount of Pay) would be to add more Manpower to the securityforces (and stopping ST Patrols from running into Walls) to make it challenging.
As a Variety there of course can be Factionmissions.
Except for the thing above all this is in someway or another, why not do it then.


2. NPC Resource Mission
This adds two other things I am not sure about, but should be possible, since we know that we can drag Missionitems on NPC’s and it has some relation to Missions in Daoc (giving 4 Rat ears to Guard or something like that.)
Mission given as before to be delivered to an NPC but the item required is a surveyable resource. One that is found only on the dangerous Planets. “get me 1000 of resource X from Planet Y”.
As it is now, every planet has its own resources anyway, although in the same groups.
Lets say a new kind of Wheat found on Darthomir is now illegal, there is a big Warning message in the item description: “This Resource is illegal on some Planets and can’t be transported via Spaceship if not crafted” so the normal Surveyors will know. They get another legal kind of wheat, or have to use it up before traveling.
There would be another Message for non-smugglers when trying to board a Ship. They just can’t. This is like not being able to get further into Jabba’s Planet when you haven’t done the prerequisite Missions, or employing a kind of the Access fee turnstyle System on Spaceports.
A Smuggler on the other Hand, can Transport these, temporary flags go up as above. He delivers to Target (if it is possible to Hand over all kinds of items)
What’s better about is: If the amount is large enough amount is needed, the holy grail (at least for me) of NPC Missions is accomplished. The smuggler needs other players (surveyors) to sample or build factories on dangerous ground and supply him. A challenge for them as well. (some griefing possible, if he doesn’t take the resource of the surveyor hands, but this is what PA’s and friends are for, Playermissions would solve it any way)

3. Smuggling and other Players
If all of the above is in place (Dev’s don’t be shy and tell my why it’s more complicated than I think) another thing is possible, that would now involve three other Professions.
Make the illegal items a better than the others (durability stats etc.) so that while a Masterartisan can make a very good item with the right resource mix , he can make an outstanding one, with all illegal ones. But where to get them?
The surveyor or “Miner” gets them but cant get them of planet, the smuggler transports them, but he can’t sell them. Well he can, but only by direct trading, since the Bazarr WON’T allow them, BUT Merchant will and they can let their Vendors sell them. So now Merchants get something crafters will want. They might employ smugglers and surveyors themselves. Again useful interaction, with hopefully little design.
And it actually is what smugglers DO to make money.

4. Wishful Thinking
If now Playercontracts /missions come, coupled with a mission timer (where did those go, by the way, they were there a few weeks ago, although all set to 366 days, but they were there)
It opens the gates for PC Bountymissions and hunted Bountyhunters who failed a mission to bountyhunt a smuggler etc. But this is another long post.

So any improvements, simplifications or thoughts why it won’t work?

Be seeing you
Magnum
tralita_tusnami
Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:10 pm
#61


Im affraid to go to work now, because im affraid some synical jaded smuggler will come in here yelling and screaming, and screw the dialog we have going up. THIS IS MOST IMPORTANT, TRUTHFULLY TO HAVE THE EYES AND EARS OF THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM, IN THE SAME WEEK AS WE SEAMINGLY GOT THE SHAFT (YOU KNOW WHATIM TALKING ABOUT).... THE TURN AROUND ITS OUT OF THE WORLD, GREAT BIG PIE OF WHAT EVER TYPE YOU LIKE AND BIG GIANT OVERFLOWING MUGS OF BEER AND TWILEK PORN FOR ALL!!!!!!!!!



_____________________________________________________
Some aspire to be the best, Thunderheart aspires to be just like me
"I may look like an Ewok, but I'm all Wookie where it counts, baby."

Tralita Tusnami
Bria server
MASTER SMUGLER/BOUNTY HUNTER/PISTOLER
GanymedePharuu
Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:12 pm
#62



tralita_tusnami wrote:
Im affraid to go to work now, because im affraid some synical jaded smuggler will come in here yelling and screaming, and screw the dialog we have going up. THIS IS MOST IMPORTANT, TRUTHFULLY TO HAVE THE EYES AND EARS OF THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM, IN THE SAME WEEK AS WE SEAMINGLY GOT THE SHAFT (YOU KNOW WHATIM TALKING ABOUT).... THE TURN AROUND ITS OUT OF THE WORLD, GREAT BIG PIE OF WHAT EVER TYPE YOU LIKE AND BIG GIANT OVERFLOWING MUGS OF BEER AND TWILEK PORN FOR ALL!!!!!!!!!





calm down.
go to work.

we'll hold down the fort



cccccccccccccccccccc
Kohs V'sto
I wanted Smuggling for Christmas
but all i got was
<--- this stupid hat.

I am Jack's ignored profession.
Luke Skywalker is DEAD!
VitoGenovese
Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:13 pm
#63

Thank you JFreeman! Its not necessarily the best news, but it is at least communication. If there is something we can do to help improve the quality and speed of the process, we are more than willing to help.



______________________
Adapt! Or be Darwined.
I don't believe in the Force anymore, but I do believe in Karma.
magnum1138
Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:13 pm
#64

While i am at it -(its the last hurrah anyway)


Old POST:

I really can’t understand how real smuggling (or a beginning of it) can be so hard and griefable.

One Idea with existing reused Game Mechanics:
-Make repeatable Quests only Smugglers can get. Those can be attained from the 3? Hutts and Valerian and/or their associates. The Mission is to Deliver an Item (Tradeable and Dropable) to another associate.
-Get a timer on the Mission (there always was a Mission timer in Beta, although it was always set to one Year, but its there)(and there are now timers on lamps, so there are ways of keeping in game time, and the corvette has one too.)
-Make a challenging Timelimit
-Make the Target be off planet
-Make a decent payout on completion
-As long as the smuggler has the item, he has a TEF on all NPC Security personal Galaxywide. (not in game as such, or only for the main faction, but there might be a workaround with an instant faction hit for the suitable factions when accepting the Mission, and adding faction again on completion)(also it could be the existing TEF system that stays for as long as the Timelimit, thus not depending on the item)(or use the Jedi visibility function and revoke it on completion or fail of mission)
-If they incap him or scan and find the item, he loses the item. (I know you don’t like taking items away from players, but this wouldn’t be different from any other Questitem that has to be delivered)(Fasttalk skill might get the smuggler out)
-Mission fails if the smuggler doesn’t beat the time limit, gets busted, trades the item.
-One Mission only at a time
-Big Faction hit with Mission giver Faction if the smuggler fails Mission. (1 or 2k points)
-No missions with negative or even low positive Faction (better the higher the faction the better the payout)
-Mission failing resolves always in a Playerbounty – Given at BH Mission terminals (same as Jedi)
-Big Warning Sticker before accepting the Smuggler mission, so everyone knows that he might be vulnerable to PVP.
-If the smuggler kills or incaps the BH, he is scott free. No money, but he keeps the Item. He still has gotten the faction hit.
-If the BH kills the smuggler, the BH gets the money (or he gets the item to bring back to smugglers boss, then he gets the Bounty (though this function is not in game I think))
-Make less well paying Missions with only Faction penalties for non-Pvpers
-Imperial or Rebel Smuggler missions. Deliver to a Spy in enemy territory i.e. Anchorhead, Kor Vella, Rebelbase etc. Evidently only for Factionmembers. Reward Factionpoints.

ALL the systems are in the game in some form or other.
Its not griefable, cause even if a smuggler fails intentionally to help his BH friend, he has the faction hit to deal with, the BH missions are random anyway
It’s the players decision if he wants to do this.
Instant BH content.
Interesting Way to introduce rare items into the game, again even if a smuggler wants to make more profit (that’s what smuggling is about) by selling the item, he can do so only so often, due to the faction hit.

How is this griefable.
How impossible or exceptionally hard to do.
How harder to balance than other things
How is it not fun.

Why not do it?



Magnum


END OF OLD POST

Cheers
Magnum
WillburWright
Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:13 pm
#65






Nezodon wrote:

I just thought it would be interesting to do a nice polite questionaire and get some views which hopefully the devs would take on board when it comes to smuggling missions:



  • Why do we need smuggling missions? Well, um, we're Smugglers. That's our job. It's like Bounty Hunters not being able to go after their marks.....

  • What should they involve? Getting from Point A to Point B, without getting caught orkilled. Getting the "stuff" in a timely manner should be rewarded.

  • What would it add to the SWG universe? First. This game is freakin' Star Wars here. Um Smugglers? Need I say more. But, I wlll.... It'll make the game feel more like Star Wars because it will articulate the feeling of having an evil empire over your shoulder (ie crackdown, checkpoints, tariffs, ect....) BH's now will be able to hunt what they should be hunting: criminals. More space content, too.

  • Why did you become a smuggler? Well, I'm a big star wars geek. Not fan, geek. I know my timeline, and Jedi don't belong in this game....Plus, almost every other game has Jedi. Being a Smuggler? Too cool!

  • What does the lack of smuggling content do to the smuggling profession? It makes the profession a lie. We are called Smugglers, yet we do not Smuggle. This makes common sense not so common. We don't want to be slice monkeys or mobile meth labs, just Jabba's illegal UPS.....


Lets try and keep it to the questions and make it as constructive as possible so its easier for anyone reading he post to digest so hopefuly we can encourage a red name down to pop in and say something/anything about smuggling and their plans.








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