Smuggler Archive
Thread: Apparently Neutrals/Civilians aren't important.
01201986 wrote:
Well Zane, on your original post...
the new changes r specifically for the TEF system and bases and such, which are entirely involved in factions, and not in nuetrals. So i would not read too much into it, as these changes are not meant to be for nuetrals, but for the GCW, something which nuetrals are not a part of really. If u want to be involved in the GCW at this point in the game, u have to join a faction. And the only way i can see it possible for nuetrals to be involved any is to implement a faction standing system for nuetrals like there exists for every other NPC faction in the game. (i.e. if u have -5000 imp faction, they will attack you on site, and vice versa for reb faction. operating just like the npc factions do now. example: nightsisters/singing mountain clan) Of course the changeswill play into our revamp, but our revamp is not based off of or entirely dependant upon these changes. /shrug just my two cents
Message Edited by 01201986 on 02-06-2005 05:13 PM
This is where you and I differ. Involvement with a faction is not, and should not, be limited to the GCW. These factions interact and deal with things outside of those who join their ranks. Not only do players involve themselves, but so do scanning patrols. This does not only effect the GCW, it effects virtually everyone in the game regardless of their affiliations. The point that I raised is that there needs to be more options for all players, not just those that wanna play imp or reb.
I'm sorry because you cannot relate other NPC factions to these, especially the Imperial side. Since the Empire is the only side that interacts with players right now (scans) in ways other than to just weigh faction points, you are removing what would have been the only brush with law any and all players had.
The TEF system was by no means perfect, but it wasn't as tragicly broken as people wanted to believe it to be. They had the choice to take certain actions that left them vulnerable, because they did not like the choices, they have now taken them away from others.
The point I wish to make more than any other is that I am arguing for all players to get the same options while maintaining their character. I know you the response it that everyone has the choice to pick a side, but this game was not founded on that choice, and to remove abilities, options, and choices from players at this point because others could not live with the choices they've made in the past is just plain wrong.
I hear what you are saying and on nearly all points I agree with you. But as I said, the game does not exist in the form you are talking about, (altho we all wish there was a nuetral faction or two)and only time will tell if the new changes make it worse for nuetrals. Remember that nothing in those posts by TH is set in stone, this stuff hasn't even hit TC yet.
SmugglinZane wrote:
This is where you and I differ. Involvement with a faction is not, and should not, be limited to the GCW. These factions interact and deal with things outside of those who join their ranks. Not only do players involve themselves, but so do scanning patrols. This does not only effect the GCW, it effects virtually everyone in the game regardless of their affiliations. The point that I raised is that there needs to be more options for all players, not just those that wanna play imp or reb. I very much agree with you, there definately need to be more factions and more options. But the fact is that at this time there are not, so I base my observations and ideas for the current system from what we have, not what we wish we couldhave.
I'm sorry because you cannot relate other NPC factions to these, especially the Imperial side. Since the Empire is the only side that interacts with players right now (scans) in ways other than to just weigh faction points, you are removing what would have been the only brush with law any and all players had. Also true, i was just kinda thinking out loud for a way to get nuetrals involved with the current system. And as for law enforcement...wait, there's law enforcement?
The TEF system was by no means perfect, but it wasn't as tragicly broken as people wanted to believe it to be. They had the choice to take certain actions that left them vulnerable, because they did not like the choices, they have now taken them away from others. Yes, tho i think in the long run this systemmight prove better, if only for the fact that i hope it will reduce the numbers of whiners and griefers. because even tho we can argue "get over it, you made a choice, live with the consequences or drop faction" (which i think is a very valid argument)there will still be players who whine and complain that they cannot be factioned yet avoid PvP. (which is not necessarily true, but people say that anyways) You're right that at the moment it's aimed entirely at factioned players, but like i said, atm they r the only ones who can actively participate in the GCW. Personally i hate the idea of going "on leave". joining a faction should have benefits and difficulties, the leave status negates that. I think instead what should have been done, was have nuetrals be able to talk to recruiters of a faction and side with that faction, tho not joining it. they could not advance in ranks or requisition any items, and they received a weekly pay for their services. u know, like Han asked for pay for helping rescue Leia and all. (again, i'm just thinking out loud, i tend to do that, feel free to point out the faults
)
The point I wish to make more than any other is that I am arguing for all players to get the same options while maintaining their character. I know you the response it that everyone has the choice to pick a side, but this game was not founded on that choice, and to remove abilities, options, and choices from players at this point because others could not live with the choices they've made in the past is just plain wrong. I see your point and I agree with you, but like i said it's going to take nuetral factions to fix that. (which as u know we have been promised, but have yet to see anything on. Heck if they made a Black Sun or underworld faction i would join that in a heartbeat. but it seems an underworld addition will be an expansion, like JTL was, so we have some more wait in front of us.)but the whole "make a choice" thing has existed since launch, so in essence the game was founded on it. and like Tyrant said, the GCW is largely made up of rebs and imps, so for the time being that is where SOE's focus is. However that does not mean that nuetrals will be ignored, Tyrant said as much. (so it's just a matter of time...but we all know what that means)
Zane i understand your wanting to be involved in the GCW as a nuetral, but the fact is that the system is just not set up that way. the core code that it is all built on is not set up that way. I do think that nuetrals should be able to hire themselves out to a faction, being paid on a weekly basis and getting no faction perks or ranks. I hate to say this, but join a side bro. Take Han for example, the only interaction he had in the GCW before he ran into Luke and Obi-Wan was running from imperial troops and scans. even then they did not shoot him, he was merely fined and the cargo confiscated. (this is from EU) he only got mixed up into fighting stormies when he decided to help rescue Leia. From which point on, he was a reb. now, seeing as there is no actual smuggling in the game and thus nothing to run from, the contraband scanning is as close as it gets. the majority of nuetrals are nuetral for the simple reason that they do not wish to be mixed up in the GCW.
SmugglinZane wrote:
Thought I'd add an update to this since there was more unveiled today.
The new occupation system changes nothing. The NPC factions will attack only if you are in opposition to the occupying faction or if you have the negative faction for that faction required for them to aggro you.
In other words, there is no dynamic interaction for Neutral/Civilian players.
Corsec troopers will aggro to you regardless of the scan outcome if you kill enough of them.
I know their intent is to make the GCW more interactive, but IMO this is beginning to become ridiculous.
Maybe the system is made that way to facilitate the inclusion of a 3rd faction later on.
Or maybe I am being optimistic again. hehehe
Message Edited by 01201986 on 02-08-2005 05:25 PM
LaughingWolf wrote:
True, I'm only saying that maybe the Dev's plans are like they presented because of that possible 3rd faction. That the lack of neutral opportunity to join the GCW is not an oversight.
I specifically asked Auraboron in one of the threads in the GCW forums to try and ask the Devs if the new factional system will be designed in a manner which allows additional factions with the same PvP/PvE rules. I hope he put it on some list of questions that need to be answered - I'm worried that if this whole new faction thing isn't designed to be easily expandable right from the start, the possibility of seeing any kind of 'criminal' or 'Hutt' or whatever faction(s) is very slim.
01201986 wrote:
Zane i understand your wanting to be involved in the GCW as a nuetral, but the fact is that the system is just not set up that way. the core code that it is all built on is not set up that way. I do think that nuetrals should be able to hire themselves out to a faction, being paid on a weekly basis and getting no faction perks or ranks. I hate to say this, but join a side bro. Take Han for example, the only interaction he had in the GCW before he ran into Luke and Obi-Wan was running from imperial troops and scans. even then they did not shoot him, he was merely fined and the cargo confiscated. (this is from EU) he only got mixed up into fighting stormies when he decided to help rescue Leia. From which point on, he was a reb. now, seeing as there is no actual smuggling in the game and thus nothing to run from, the contraband scanning is as close as it gets. the majority of nuetrals are nuetral for the simple reason that they do not wish to be mixed up in the GCW.
SmugglinZane wrote:
Thought I'd add an update to this since there was more unveiled today.
The new occupation system changes nothing. The NPC factions will attack only if you are in opposition to the occupying faction or if you have the negative faction for that faction required for them to aggro you.
In other words, there is no dynamic interaction for Neutral/Civilian players.
Corsec troopers will aggro to you regardless of the scan outcome if you kill enough of them.
I know their intent is to make the GCW more interactive, but IMO this is beginning to become ridiculous.
They've added other factions now mate, so this goes beyond the GCW. That's what I'm up in arms about at this point, not just the GCW. Before I argued for an opt in system for neutral players because that was the only interaction with authority that players got. Now they're adding other authorities, and we're still left in the cold.
LaughingWolf wrote:
True, I'm only saying that maybe the Dev's plans are like they presented because of that possible 3rd faction. That the lack of neutral opportunity to join the GCW is not an oversight.
Even with a criminal faction, players will still only wish to be alligned with themselves and their friends. I just don't understand why it's so wrong to implement an opt in system that will allow players to be more interactive with each other and with the environment.
maxtheusher wrote:
Didn't notice this one before. Nicholas, in a Civil War there are only two sides, but there is a lot or grey in between. Brother against brother, friend against friend, etc. In the American Civil War, soldiers from both sides would sometimes fraternize before a battle. there's a ton of neutrality in a Civil War. Maybe not so much these days, but then, this was a Long Longtime ago