Smuggler Archive
Thread: Tiggs States: No Plans for Player to Player Smuggling
Ternque01
Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:28 am
#40
Orcajum wrote:
Ok, couple examples on WHY the playerbase deserves to be inconvenienced:
First, as people have already stated, I can't get buffed without a Doc, I can't get mind healed without an Entertainer, and I can't get weapons without a Weaponsmith. I am required to find out these professions to get what i want.
Beyond that, however, look at how inconvenienced SMUGGLERS have been in order to do our own jobs. I can't even make the tools i need to accomplish what little skills i have. I am required to utilize a Weaponsmith and an Armorsmith for the WUKs and AUKs so I can slice (which, it seems, is the only interaction the Devs believe Smugglers should have with another player). Without these necessary tools, the only "slicing" i could do would be terminals and containers, and only slicing containers is a social experience since group members don't receive benefits from sliced terminals.
Second, the devs didn't mind taking away the playerbase's divine rights a few months ago when Image Designers became the only people who could mitigate a player's stats. It was deemed then that, in order to make IDs a social, important profession to the general populace, they needed to offer them a skill players had taken for granted. Who's more iconic: Leia's hairsylist, or Han and Lando?
The fact is, there are ways to impliment Player-Smuggling in a manner consistent with the current development. If mass-market spices are entering the game through Smuggler missions, why can't other resources/loot also enter the game in the same manner. Let players search us out, contract us to take those same NPC missions for whatever "illegal" items they happen to need. Let us be the gateway for these "illegal" items to enter into circulation.
It's not much, but at least I feel like i'm doing something for another player, instead of continuing my role as the proverbial slice-monkey. I may not be moving another player's weapons, armor or spices, but i'm moving Something past Someone for Someone Else finally.
(plus, i thought my NPC Fence idea was cool)
I think what you say is strong as hell.
I also think that two VERY good thing will happen with this "lame" NPC smuggling. Smugglers won't mass produce spice. This will keep it OFF the bazaar and OFF player vendors for the most part. It will be more rare and most likely players WILL contact a smuggler for orders of spice. The smuggler will then smuggle/steal what that player wants and deliver it directly to the buyer. This seems pretty damn close to player smuggling if you ask me. You will have spices as rare and valuable. You will have players contacting smugglers for spice contracts.. which the smuggler scams/steals/smuggles to get to the player. A far cry from a player needing to ship a good to another player, but a close conversation to making player-smuggler interactions followed by excitement followed by delivery to said player "customer".
Mought1971
Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:50 am
#41
If we can't have PC to PC smuggling, why not NPC to PC smuggling? If there is a fear that the general populace will cry out if we suddenly make something they already own illegal, then introduce something new that nobody has yet, that everyone wants, but only we can get. Maybe a one-off experimentation bonus item for crafters, a weapon powerup for combat classes, a new ingredient for chefs, or a small amount of uber resources. But in order to get these things, we have to contact an instanced NPC on one planet who gives us component, who refers us to another NPC on another planet who gives us another component, who send us to the final contact who gives us the final component. We'd get scanned at three starports, then a final mad dash to the customer with the finished product (and we'd also have to lose any pursuers before we made the final drop, or the customer gets scanned too). We get paid, the customer gets his uber thingy, and we get to smuggle. If the items were good enough, I can guarantee there will never be enough smugglers to go around. It could be a good money sink and anti-exploit too, if we had to BUY each component off the contacts for a TON of money. This way the customer fronts the cash, and we decide what we want to do with that cash
Upona failed delivery (or we run off with the customer's money or thingy) we get a bounty placed on our head. The price of the bounty would be proportional to the amount of money/value of the item stolen.
The customers can place their orders via smuggler terminals in the back rooms of cantinas, where we would also get our missions, kinda like a black market bazaar terminal. Taking multiple missions then running off with the money can be kept in check by only being able to have one active mission at a time. Plus, merchants can set a 'trust' level to their missions - smugglers with a reputation for running off with stuff will not be eligible for the higher-paying missions.
I haven't got all the exploit holes plugged, but it's a start. I also realize a lot of ideas just fall on Dev's deaf ears, but here's to hoping.
SpinningCloud
Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:16 am
#42
Mought,
Umm...I think that is exactly what we are going to get. Spice was just used as an example and my impression of the In Concept post is that we'll get things other than just spice to smuggle and it too will be useful to players.
We can keep, use and sell the portion that is the reward or we can run off with all or part of it and risk BHS...NPC BHs and maybe one day player BHs.
I think this is a lot better than what we have now though I too want player to player smuggling. I just happen to agree with those that think any percievedinconvienience to the player base will be hard to get.
NickHeel
Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:56 am
#43
LukeBorgman wrote:
The trick with Player-to-Player Smuggling is that SWG needs new,value-added stuff, not new, hassle-added stuff. No new nerfs! A good Player-to-Player Smuggling system should be for some new advantage to non-smugglers, they have to contract with a smuggler. I don't know the answer but I know what's not the answer.
Player BH contracts on player smugglers is also not the answer. Hopefully, BHs will get skills they need to kill Jedi. That's their answer. Making Player-to-Player smuggling dependent on PvP is a bad idea unless the CU proves to be way more successful at balance than I imagine it will be. *cough* In SWG, player "Jedi" =Master Player Killer. *cough* ...but I digress.
Are there ideas out there that provide Player-to-Player smuggling that add new value/fun fornon-smuggler players instead of hurting something they already do?
You haven't read GreenMarine's threads in here have you? I suggest reading them and wondering where and when that beautifull creation was put to sleep.
No one would force a PC Bounty Hunter on us. It was proposed many times that you would be prompted before taking a difficult mission that if you failed or screwed up real bad, you would/could have a PC bounty put on you. You wouldn't need these missions to level, they would pay more and be more difficult, and the added risk to the reward would be a PC bounty. Risk and reward.
And what if I consider it a nerf that I can't migrate my stats now without an Image Designer? People used to do that stuff all the time with no problem. Why not restricting certain high-grade resources or components?
People whine and complain and b*tch and moan about this game not feeling like Star Wars. That it's some amusement park based on Star Wars. People want a more in-depth feel...like they're truely "Living the Saga" as advertised. But when it comes down to it, they deny the systems that should be put in place to give them their more Star Warsy game. It's just mind boggling.
Mought1971
Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:16 pm
#44
SpinningCloud wrote:
Mought,
Umm...I think that is exactly what we are going to get. Spice was just used as an example and my impression of the In Concept post is that we'll get things other than just spice to smuggle and it too will be useful to players.
We can keep, use and sell the portion that is the reward or we can run off with all or part of it and risk BHS...NPC BHs and maybe one day player BHs.
I think this is a lot better than what we have now though I too want player to player smuggling. I just happen to agree with those that think any percievedinconvienience to the player base will be hard to get.
The missions they propose in the doc seem to be NPC to NPC missions. I was hoping that PCs could place an order on the black market for an item, and we could get it for them. To keep these items rare, the availability of items on the black market would be random.
TomoRainer
Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:20 pm
#45
I'm not swayed by the Image Designer argument. I've visited one a single time for stat migration. I can't conceive how you would need one more than once a month, let alone once a day, so that they were given an ability we all used to have doesn't mean much when you literally never use that ability. The smuggling of commonplace items like sliced gear and spices, however, would require people using our services 5-20 times a day. I think that's excessive.
Orcajum's ideas about introducing other types of illegal items to the market other than spices but using that same fence system is really good, I think, and exactly the kind of thing we could go after with reasonable expectations of attaining. I also like Hotdog's idea about needing a smuggler to transport more than, say, a crate of spice at once; that'd be a simple change that wouldn't really hurt anyone but would result in the occasional smuggling contract. These are suggestions that could work, I think. Nice job, guys.
Orcajum's ideas about introducing other types of illegal items to the market other than spices but using that same fence system is really good, I think, and exactly the kind of thing we could go after with reasonable expectations of attaining. I also like Hotdog's idea about needing a smuggler to transport more than, say, a crate of spice at once; that'd be a simple change that wouldn't really hurt anyone but would result in the occasional smuggling contract. These are suggestions that could work, I think. Nice job, guys.
Message Edited by TomoRainer on 03-17-2005 11:26 AM
TomoRainer
Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:07 pm
#46
By the way, can I just reiterate that I love this place? I'm saying stuff that I know a bunch of people are going to disagree 100% with me on, but I'm five-starred. An internet forum where people actually respect each others' opinions, it's like Bizarro World.
NickHeel
Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:33 pm
#47
TomoRainer wrote:
By the way, can I just reiterate that I love this place? I'm saying stuff that I know a bunch of people are going to disagree 100% with me on, but I'm five-starred. An internet forum where people actually respect each others' opinions, it's like Bizarro World.
Sea Lab rules.
Now, back on topic. Yeah, screw the playerbase...I want to Smugglers. Devs are unimaginative! ROAR!
SpinningCloud
Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:02 pm
#48
I am 110% behind ALL contraband having serious consequences. Otherwise what IS the point in calling it contraband?
I am also very much interested in the list of contraband being extended.
Ternque01
Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:03 pm
#49
Have any of you considered that this system does allow for player smuggling? Sound rediculous or blasphemous???
If a player needs spice, s/he WILL need to contact a smuggler to get some. Assuming that smugglers don't whore themselves out and do missions for hours on end just to stock a vendor, alot of players will need to go to smugglers firsthand to make a verbal contract with them on obtaining some spice/contraband.
This looks EXACTLY like the PC smuggling description that HOTDOG explains above. I'm not seeing too large of a problem here. Stone me if you want to.
There is also the glorified version of PC smuggling that will always be a wish, where highly illegal goods that players need to be explicitly shipped from one location to another is needed. Players can obtain it and craft with it, but cannot transport it. Add to that a real, law-enforced world. This is alot of work, and I pray that the Underworld expansion addresses this, but you people have to realize that players WILL contract you to obtain and sell them spice. That is damn cool to me.
If a player needs spice, s/he WILL need to contact a smuggler to get some. Assuming that smugglers don't whore themselves out and do missions for hours on end just to stock a vendor, alot of players will need to go to smugglers firsthand to make a verbal contract with them on obtaining some spice/contraband.
This looks EXACTLY like the PC smuggling description that HOTDOG explains above. I'm not seeing too large of a problem here. Stone me if you want to.
There is also the glorified version of PC smuggling that will always be a wish, where highly illegal goods that players need to be explicitly shipped from one location to another is needed. Players can obtain it and craft with it, but cannot transport it. Add to that a real, law-enforced world. This is alot of work, and I pray that the Underworld expansion addresses this, but you people have to realize that players WILL contract you to obtain and sell them spice. That is damn cool to me.
SpinningCloud
Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:08 pm
#50
I agree with Ternque, we can smuggle spice for players. If they want more than what our mission reward gives us then we just have to cheat our employer and take the consequenses...but the player wanting spice from us will pay for it.
I also maintain that we will get other items to smuggle that will be of value to players, NOT just spice.
It isn't exactly what we want in terms of player to player smuggling but it isa lotdamn better than anything we've got from SOE thus far.
TomoRainer
Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:16 pm
#51
I do think this is the perfect opportunity to make spice have serious consequences; it doesn't have the dependency on it that slicing currently does, and I don't think the uproar over illegalizing it would be too loud. I don't think people should be penalized much for carrying small amounts--I dunno, 5, or a crate, whatever--but any sizeable transportation of it should be open to heavy fines, assault, or maybe even confiscation. Combine this with how the concept docs currently have it set up and I think there is a lot of room for player smuggling when it comes to spice. But it would have to be set up in a hurry.
MailekEOC
Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:56 pm
#52
I like the changes, although its not what everyone wants but you can't please everyone. The new spice smuggling is good, slicing is cool, you'll get new moves in the CU and they haven't even shown what the underworld tree will look like. Remember this is still just in concept so things can and will change.